Posted on 10/28/2014 6:31:45 AM PDT by Gamecock
I just got this same thing in e mail 10 minutes ago, but is it RC Sr, or RC Jr?
Not one of the 57 states, presumably
I believe it is the father unit.
I see. I have been getting good stuff from them, ever since I asked them if they had any of information on one individual named Apollo C Quiboloy. They sent me the information I requested and have been sending me stuff ever since.
I hate to be critical, but this poor Sproul guy...well, let’s just say he’ll never draw much of a crowd. There’s nothing in this about how I can be a better me, y’know? Just a lot of statistics, divisiveness, and judginess. See people just want to live their best life now, and all this judginess and theology, well, it’s not very nice. Unlike Jesus, who was really nice. And not judgy. /sarc
"All Hail the Power of Osteen's Name..." /sarc
Can someone tell my; what is up with the question “My local Church has the authority to declare I am not a Christian”?
Why would someone say that in the first place? Isn't that God's job. Maybe my pastor missed out, but I don't think he has the lambs book of life. My local Church may wish to follow the example of the church in Corinth in the Bible and tell me I do not have their fellowship and deal with me that way. I don't read a lot of Sproul, does he believe you can lose your salvation (I thought he was Calvinist so doesn't that fall under the perseverance of the saints)? If the church has that authority can someone show me chapter and verse? I recall mark those that cause division, to be aware of wolves in sheep's clothing, and teachers who have followers with itching ears.
So after thinking on it maybe I'm just reading it from the wrong perspective. I was assuming that it was referring to someone who had maid a confession of faith in the Biblical gospel, baptized member of the church type. I was thinking it was referring to something similar to Catholic excommunication. Maybe the question was really meant to ask if you think the Church has a right to say I'm not a Christian if I don't fit the Biblical doctrine of salvation. In which case the answer would be yes they do that's an intrinsic part of preaching the Gospel. For full disclosure and background: I'm an independent fundamental KJV Bible believing premillennial once saved always saved Baptist. Yeah, I'm messed up, but you are too and God still loves us.
Good question. Perhaps that has something to do with church discipline?
In the USA, there is no religious "authority". In the USA, there is no church "authority". In the USA, there is no Biblical "authority". This is precisely what makes the USA God's greatest nation, ever. Freedom. This was the 5000-year leap in human history. Freedom from stupid, evil people telling other people how they must think, believe, and worship, or not.
Ministers and churches can pretend to have "authority".
The idiot congregation members can pretend to recognize some non-existent "authority".
People can pretend all kinds of things, but pretending does not make them so.
Each person in the USA has the right to worship, or not, as he/she wishes.
Each person has the right to freely associate, or not, as he/she wishes.
This concept of freedom is terrifying to those who function at the mental level of livestock; and is even more terrifying to those who would exercise religious tyranny over others.
I did some background research and Sproul does teach the perseverance of the saints and eternal security. So it wouldn’t make sense that the question would refer to the ability of the Church to declare believers to be unbelievers. http://www.ligonier.org/learn/qas/what-doctrine-eternal-security/ http://www.ligonier.org/learn/qas/it-possible-christian-lose-his-salvation-because-s/
I also looked up what he had to say on Church Authority. But it refers to whether one is in ‘good standing’ which sounds more like a separation of fellowship not a declaration of salvation or one’s Christianity. As I understand it Church discipline is to hopefully bring a fellow believer to repentance and back into the fellowship of the Church. http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/church-authority/
“…Excommunication from a local body is hardly ever taken seriously since it rarely prevents someone from joining the church next door with no questions asked....Yet our private sins; are the church’s business, and her judgments, when they conform to Scripture, are divinely authorized. We see this in today’s passage as Jesus in Matthew 18:18-19 gives to the apostles primarily, and the church derivatively, the keys of the kingdom first given to... Church discipline decides whether or not a person is a member in good standing of Christ’s church, and such decisions have weight only if they agree with God’s Word. …The church’s ability to liberate people, says John Calvin, is not limited to the restoration of disciplined members to full participation in the congregation. Such liberation is also discharged when elders, according to Scripture, assure repentant people of pardon after sin is confessed. This “awakens in the godly no ordinary confidence, when they hear that their sins are blotted out before God and angels, as soon as they have obtained forgiveness from the Church.”
Given the above, the question is either asking does the Church have the right to tell me I was never really a Christian? Again, the answer is no, especially if they are using a work based criteria (Eph 2:8-9). This would seem especially true when taken into account with the doctrine of election. This leads to the old how much can I sin and be a Christian; or if I sin too big does that prove I was never really a Christian debates. A debate always accompanied by a whole host of can “real Christian” do x and still be Christian tag-along questions. As the greatest theologian Freepers can debate this for pages on end and even the great theologians don’t agree I don’t see how the local Church could be the master of such questions.
Or is the question asking does the Church have the right to tell me I’m not a Christian if I haven’t accepted Christ according to the Biblical doctrine of salvation, that is if I’m trusting in something other than Jesus to save me. In which case, the answer is yes. The 3rd option is that the question is mean to ask if the local church has the right to eject someone from their fellowship, but that’s not what it says. A church can kick me out for some aberrant doctrine (and I’m sure some reformed churches would if I wanted to be a member) or for some sin; but it doesn’t correlate they can declare me to no longer be a Christian. Only God knows that.
If Sproul wrote this question then I’m amazed at the ambiguity. I don’t even know what I would have answered as I still can’t decide what he is asking.
And thank God for the Liberty the church finally found in America. Not so long ago even in New England if you believed the wrong things about baptism, or which way the pews faced (hey it was a big deal back then) etc; you would find yourself banished to Connecticut or back to England. And the colony churches were much freer than the those in England or on the continent at the time.
The Anna-baptist are another good example as they faced persecution from both the Catholic and Protestant churches for many many years.
I am scratching my head over it too.
Just don’t know.
Jefferson's Amendment of Religious Freedom for the Virginia Constitution (from which the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution) was a specific response to HIS OWN Anglican Church's persecution, taxation, torture, even murder, of Virginia citizens who did not bow down to the evils of the Anglican Church. Madison also vacated the Anglican Church over its evil practices.
The established churches of some of the other colonies were even more evil against individuals than the Anglican Church.
Freedoms and right in the USA pertains to individuals; not to organizations; not to government agencies; and definitely not to self-anointed false "authorities".
Thank God for the liberty that individuals finally found in America.
The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was drafted in 1777 (though it was not first introduced into the Virginia General Assembly until 1779)[1] by Thomas Jefferson in the city of Fredericksburg, Virginia. On January 16, 1786, the Assembly enacted the statute into the state's law. The statute disestablished the Church of England in Virginia and guaranteed freedom of religion to people of all religious faiths, including Catholics and Jews as well as members of all Protestant denominations.[2] The statute was a notable precursor of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
The Statute for Religious Freedom is one of only three accomplishments Jefferson instructed be put in his epitaph.[3]
Interesting, not bad for work for a deist. Thanks for the history lesson.
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