Posted on 10/08/2014 2:55:54 PM PDT by NYer
As you know, not to long ago Bp. Howard Hubbard was retired from his looooong tenure as Bishop of Albany. He was succeeded by Bp. Edward Scharfenberger.
Recently Bp. Scharfenbeger gave a speech to an interfaith group in Albany. At least one Protestant didn’t like what he had to say.
From the Times Union of Albany, NY.
Rev. Sam Trumbore
First Unitarian Universalist Society of Albany [Unitarian Universalist... what is that, I wonder.]Bishop Scharfenberger’s after dinner speech last night at the Capital Region Theological Center Fall fundraising dinner seriously missed his audience and likely ruffled a few feathers in the interfaith, largely Protestant audience of about 230 community leaders.
Many of us in attendance were very interested to hear the recent replacement for long serving Bishop Hubbard, to hear what his message to the interfaith community might be. The Capital Region Theological Center is a wonderful ecumenical organization founded by the collaboration of the founding partners: The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, Reformed Church of America, Presbyterian Church (USA) and the United Church of Christ. [...] Their values welcoming and supporting all faith communities seeking peace, justice and a more sustainable planet and a spirit of collaboration, discussion over judgment, and diversity rather than uniformity line up well with the values of my Unitarian Universalist congregation.
[...]
So it surprised me with the new Bishop stood up after dinner and launched into a finely crafted Catholic sermon about the nature of freedom in Catholic theology. He spoke little about the work of CRTC nor much about the community gathered to hear him and gave what sounded like last Sunday’s sermon at the cathedral. There were some surprising references when he began about the common religious history of slavery among ancient peoples suggesting that the Ancient Greeks, Jews, and Christians all took it for granted. As our denomination has been keenly interested in the Catholic Doctrine of Discovery and its use to subjugate Native Americans and enslave Africans, [?] I was curious if the Bishop would talk about this, dare I say apologize for the massive death, destruction and suffering it caused. He did not. [?!?]
I’m not going to be able to pull apart all the subtleties of his speech for us but he took us to the Garden of Eden to reiterate the Original Sinfulness of humanity and our rebellion against God. The evil in the world is our fault because we do not use our freedom wisely. We pursue power for our separate selves rather than the good and the love of God. Humanity falls into sin by choosing the freedom to get over the freedom to give. Real freedom isn’t the absence of constraints but to choose the constraints that God gives us. Most surprisingly given the liberal theological climate in Albany, he spoke about what was missing today was fear of Hell.
[...]
ROFL!
Fr. Z kudos to Bp. Scharfenberger. ¡Hagan lío!
Read the rest over there for a good chuckle.
Meanwhile, let true dialogue begin!
Bishop Scharfenbeger's second crozier, ping!
Rev. Sam Trumbore
First Unitarian Universalist Society of Albany
[Unitarian Universalist... what is that, I wonder.]
LOL what a bunch of idiots. And yes, I'm including Fr Z in that bunch, as he opens with an admission that he has no idea what a UU is, yet says "let true dialogue begin!" Maybe he needs to put down the communion wine long enough to open up some dialogue himself.
Good Golly, Miss Molly. Unbelievable and a not so minor miracle.
Since when are Unitarian Universalists even considered Christians, let alone Protestants?
This has to be exciting for the people of the Albany diocese.
The very point I was going to make.
The UU’s branched off from the United Church of Christ, and are even more looney left than the UCC. The UCC (sometimes known as Congregationalists) traces roots back to the Pilgrims. Jonathan Williams must be shaking his head up in Heaven. So they are no different from PCUSA, ECUSA, ELCA, or Disciples of Christ. Ichabod. The Glory has departed.
Side note, when I was typing United Church of Christ, I almost typed United Church of Cthulu.
Unitarians have been kicking around since the Federal period. John Quincy Adams was one. Since the don’t believe in the Trinity, I don’t think it’s historically reasonable to call them Protestants. They’re something else again.
Loony toons, basically.
My family was Congregationalist until the late 70s. Then my mom, who isn’t too much into doctrinal distinctions, decided they were just too barking mad.
The UUs don't know what they are - you know the old saw, "What do you get when you cross a UU with a Jehovah's Witness?" "Somebody who knocks on your door for no apparent reason."
Here's basically what happened: the New England Congregationalists were always having quarrels, for one reason or another. Some dude in Boston in the late 1700s decided to adopt the doctrine that had been kicking around since the 4th century - that there is no Trinity. He and his buddies left the Congregationalists and started the Unitarians, which I think officially got organized in the 1820s.
About 50 years later, the Universalists decided that everybody was going to be saved. On what authority, I'm not sure. Once again, they were headquartered in Boston (it must be something in the water).
In the 1960s, both the Unitarians and the Universalists realized that they were bleeding members, so they decided to merge to make themselves feel better.
The UCC stayed Congregationalist much longer - they formed out of several smaller bodies in the 1950s or 60s. They have drifted way away from their roots - some say it stands for "Unitarians Considering Christ".
His basic problem with the good bishop is that he's . . . Catholic! (and that he wasn't willing to ignore Catholic doctrine in order to talk soothing idiocies to the satisfaction of Rev Trumbore and his flock.)
Trumbore has basically had his head handed to him in the comments at the Times-Union. So much so that one of his few supporters felt that he had to blame Father Z for supposedly siccing his zombi minions on Trumbore.
And Trumbore has now placed an apology (albeit one of your typical liberal, half-hearted, non-apologies) up on the T-U website.
Despite all the posts on this thread testifying otherwise, you would agree with Z that UUs are "Protestant"?
I think AAM is suggesting that Father Z was being sarcastic when he described a Unitarian Universalist as “Protestant.” I didn’t get that from the article, but I’ve always been annoyingly literal-minded, according to those who’ve always known me.
“We pursue power for our separate selves rather than the good and the love of God. Humanity falls into sin by choosing the freedom to get over the freedom to give. Real freedom isn’t the absence of constraints but to choose the constraints that God gives us.”
I find that so fascinatingly true!
I hope more folks were not offended by this.
I wish the UU’s were not so slammed on this thread. Folks, can’t you just thank God you believe as you do in yyour path to the full awareness of God and be happy for them in their path to full awareness of God?
I would be the bishop just thought he was speaking (pun not intended) universally, albiet catholicly, in restating JPII’s basic truth.
It’s a shame that Pope Francis did not invite Bishop Scharfenbeger to the Synod of the Family, in lieu of Dolan, Wuerl and Kurtz.
He is deserving of whatever slams he receives, not because he is invincibly ignorant (although that appears to be the case) but because he was unnecessarily ugly and mean about it.
As somebody over at the T-U remarked, if Trumbore really had an issue with something the bishop said, the proper response was to speak or write to the bishop privately, man to man, not to publish a snarky screed in the local secular fishwrapper.
Because he admits that he can't point to any specific statement (with the excuse that he didn't take notes), he doesn't appear to actually have any real beef (other than "It was the tone, man, the tone," as one of Kipling's characters said.) Quite the contrary, I think he was hoping he would gain worldly applause for beating up on the new bishop, who is a radical change from the old bishop - who was very much a "go along to get along" type.
Didn't work out quite the way he expected.
"Some Unitarian Universalists are nontheists and do not find language about God useful."
- from the uua.org website under FAQs.
Get back to me when he excommunicates some public pro-aborts.
Lol!
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