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Megachurch Will Pay Millions to Leave Presbyterian Denomination After Battle Over Liberal Theology
The Blaze ^

Posted on 09/21/2014 4:17:55 PM PDT by Gamecock

Yet another megachurch has announced that it will spend millions to officially separate itself from Presbyterian Church (USA), a denomination that has, in recent years, experienced turmoil over what critics decry as an increasingly liberal theology.

Nearly 89 percent of the congregation at Highland Park Presbyterian Church in Dallas, Texas, voted in October 2013 to leave the denomination and to join the more theologically conservative Evangelical Covenant Order of Presbyterians — a decision that carries with it a hefty price tag.

The church will need to pay $7.8 million in order to officially leave Presbyterian Church (USA) and keep its property, the Christian Post reported.

Leaders at Highland Park must raise and pay the sum, which is based in part on the fair market value of the property, by Nov. 4, 2014.

The settlement comes after the church filed a lawsuit against Grace Presbytery, a governing body of Presbyterian churches in Texas, seeking the split.

But rather than head to court, Highland Park decided to settle, coming to an agreement following contention and debate over how it would terminate the relationship.

“At that time Grace Presbytery had already approved their end of the settlement, so when [the church] voted to approve the settlement it was binding,” Highland Park communications director Zach House told the Post. ”The primary reason was that after a lengthy process of discerning God’s direction on these issues, the session felt that settling was wise and was what our church was being called to do at this time.”

According to a statement from Presbyterian Church (USA), the $7.8 million sum allows for “a release of [Highland Park's] obligations under the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)’s trust clause and ecclesiastical dismissal from the denomination.”

The denomination’s trust clause essentially calls for church property to be held in a trust to benefit Presbyterian Church (USA) as a whole. When disputes arise, congregations are generally forced to pay a lump sum in order to exit agreements with the denomination and retain their properties.

Despite the large price tag — which reportedly accounts for just 11 percent of the church’s assets — both sides seem content with the final agreement.

“We give thanks to God for this moment and trust that this settlement serves as a witness across the PC(USA) that the trust clause is an integral part of our constitution and will be taken seriously by Grace Presbytery,” Rev. Janet DeVries, general presbyter of Grace Presbytery, said in a statement. “We are pleased to have been able to mediate this situation and avoid a court trial.”

This news comes months after Menlo Park Presbyterian Church in Menlo Park, California, another megachurch once associated with Presbyterian Church (USA), voted to officially leave the denomination over similar issues.

Officials there made the tough choice despite facing a $8.89 million cost for the church’s property and membership fees, Religion News Service reported at the time.

In a document published by Menlo Park last year, leaders described their reasons for seeking a split with Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), noting that the church’s “evangelical identity around who Jesus is and our understanding of the authority of scripture are increasingly out of alignment” with the denomination as a whole.

Specifically, the church expressed concern that many Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) leaders do not believe in the deity of Jesus, nor do they embrace salvation through Christ. These are central tenets of most mainstream Christian churches, leading to a difficult ideological splintering.

The document cited a 2011 survey of pastors in the denomination who were asked for their level of agreement with the following statement: “Only followers of Jesus Christ can be saved.”

While 41 percent said they agreed or strong agreed with the statement, 45 percent said they disagreed or strongly disagreed — something Menlo Park leaders lamented.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: churchproperty; highlandparkchurch; homosexualagenda; liberaltheology; megachurch; pcusa; religiousleft; schism
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Yes, that's the guy. Here's the passage in the article that's relevant to what's been happening right under our nose:

From the Hegemony section:
..."This bloc
(the hegemonic super-structure he refers to) forms the basis of consent to a certain social order, which produces and re-produces the hegemony of the dominant class through a nexus of institutions, social relations, and ideas. In this manner, Gramsci developed a theory that emphasized the importance of the political and ideological superstructure...

I hate to say this, but Gramsci was pretty sharp. His writings were analytical and general, but he was and remains the left's go-to guy for explaining the fact that nobody in the post-WWII West cares for communism. The ideal is that the "masses" did not understand their oppression because it surrounded them; somebody made the analogy of a fish in water, the fish has no conception of water though it's all around him.

I'm not sure Gramsci subscribed the strategy of infiltrating and subverting these "hegemonic institutions" from within, but it has become the left's preferred strategy--no truncheons or tear gas, a fine salary, and perks to boot. Besides, they figure the proletariat is dumb and doesn't care for these insights.

Note to all millionaires and billionaires: spend every penny of your money, and do not create some foundation or benevolent trust. They'll get it. Seriously though, we should study these guys--two can play the game.

61 posted on 09/21/2014 9:03:28 PM PDT by tsomer
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To: GeronL

The don’t owe anything to stop being members. They negotiated a settlement to keep the building and remove the claim that the deed was held in trust for PCUSA.


62 posted on 09/21/2014 9:11:54 PM PDT by Gil4 (And the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, ax and saw)
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To: PAR35

No that is not quite correct. We actually we attended HPPC at that time of the vote and split. A majority voted to leave PCUSA, but it needed a supermajority (something like 66% or 75%, don’t remember exactly) to actually leave. So it was really unfortunate in that even though a majority wanted to leave PCUSA, we couldn’t because didn’t have quite enough.


63 posted on 09/21/2014 9:16:42 PM PDT by boxlunch
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To: narses

Don’t make this crabby old Calvinist come over there! ;-)


64 posted on 09/21/2014 10:49:04 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX (All those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48)
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To: PAR35

Large PCUS church in Tulsa had to cough up a lot of dough to keep its property. The courts seem to side with the denomination.

For those who are interested, there are Presbyterian churches that are true to God’s Word. The Orthodox Presbyterian church was founded in the late thirties when the mainline Presbyterian church started straying, and the Presbyterian Church in America was founded in 1973. There are some other ones, as well.


65 posted on 09/21/2014 10:52:13 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX (All those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48)
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To: Gamecock
The PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) split off from PCUSA in 1973 over the issue of church tithes going to abortions and funding the communist Sandinista rebels in Nicaragua.

So it is no surprise that PCUSA went further left; hard left.

66 posted on 09/22/2014 5:32:50 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: tsomer

Those millionaires and billionaires can hire an army of lawyers to keep them at bay...for at least a while.


67 posted on 09/22/2014 5:35:09 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: Salvation
I’m surprised about the money too.
Sad in a way, that money must play such a big part in this.

I ALSO didn't know that "Officials" there who made the tough choice had to face a $8.89 million cost for the church’s property and membership fees.

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that money plays such a prominent part of their national congregation. LOVE OF money plays a prominent part of MANY people's lives, regardless of faith or nationality.

68 posted on 09/22/2014 6:46:34 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: GeronL
This is why congregations should own their own property

No, this is why congregations should RENT. I've lost track of the number of cases I've read, where Leftists invade and take over a congregation for the purpose of seizing the assets. If the property is either rented, or heavily mortgaged, so that the only thing keeping it afloat is the weekly contributions of the congregation, then there is nothing for Leftists to covet.

69 posted on 09/22/2014 6:51:21 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: narses
Sola Scripture = schism after schism after heretical schism.

They don't "do" Apostolic Tradition and the Papacy. That was their choice in the 16th century.

70 posted on 09/22/2014 6:51:21 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Gamecock

Ironically, this is the only non-Catholic church I have ever attended. We went when visiting friends in Dallas 3 years ago.


71 posted on 09/22/2014 7:33:00 AM PDT by wolfman23601
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To: Gamecock

Money well spent.


72 posted on 09/22/2014 7:41:57 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: tsomer
The ideal is that the "masses" did not understand their oppression because it surrounded them;

Parents stop talking about communism to their kids. Same goes for religion too. People became glued to the tv at dinner time and stopped talking to each other at the dinner table.

Then there's the break up of the family.... The masses don't understand anything because tv and entertainment became the parent/god/friend of the modern family.

73 posted on 09/22/2014 8:26:47 AM PDT by dragonblustar ( Psalm 103, Psalm 37:7, Ephesians 6:12)
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To: PapaBear3625

I agree actually. I had this strange dream and the church was in an empty store-front owned by one of the members and the pastor had a full time job elsewhere. The church didn’t have to worry about losing any tax status because it didn’t have one, the pastor could talk politics and endorse candidates if he wanted. Legally it was just a bunch of people gathering to worship, and there was no actual organization for the leftist orgs to sue.


74 posted on 09/22/2014 8:37:14 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL; Gamecock

The original reasons for denominations owning property were good reasons. (1) It prevented takeover specialists from flooding churches with their own people and essentially stealing the property by getting into voting positions and voting it to themselves. (2) It prevented easy departure for piddling reasons.

As always, the problem with any hierarchy is that it, too, must remain faithful. If the leadership is lost, then the church will be steered in a sinful direction.

The problem for the future is that these churches will now have to vest the property in their own trustees, and these can become corrupt over time also.

I think the best answer might be for churches to rent properties rather than own them.


75 posted on 09/22/2014 5:44:07 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Gamecock

“The document cited a 2011 survey of pastors in the denomination who were asked for their level of agreement with the following statement: “Only followers of Jesus Christ can be saved.””

So those who have never heard of Jesus are condemned to Hell?


76 posted on 09/23/2014 4:05:32 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore (If Obama were twice as smart as he is, he would be a wit)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

That’s what Romans 1 indicates.


77 posted on 09/23/2014 5:25:17 AM PDT by Gamecock
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To: Gamecock

That would not be the God I worship.


78 posted on 09/24/2014 4:44:43 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore (If Obama were twice as smart as he is, he would be a wit)
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To: cloudmountain

Actually, I think that compared to other PCUSA churches, HP got a bargain. Here in Atlanta, churches that are interested in leaving with their property are being told much higher sums — some in the $50 million range. It is stifling the exodus here. This process of leaving varies greatly from presbytery to presbytery and state to state.

My former home church in Houston just had their vote to leave and was a couple dozen votes shy of the 2/3rds necessary. Irregularities were found with enough ballots to be questionable, but another vote was not allowed.


79 posted on 09/24/2014 5:05:23 AM PDT by BelleAl (Proud to be a member of the party of NO! NO more deficit spending and government control!)
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

So who then goes to Heaven and based on Scripture, why?


80 posted on 09/24/2014 8:32:17 AM PDT by Gamecock
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