[Graybeard58]

Opinions?

[ifinnegan]

There’s an old saying - the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

[DouglasKC]

That we are to strive to keep God’s law spiritually and physically. However, our carnality fights against our spirituality and we need the spirit of Christ to subdue our carnality.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

Man has a propensity to sin.The law of our flesh can overcome our desire to obey God’s laws; i.e. extreme hunger can tempt one to steal.

[humblegunner]

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

*God expects more out of me that I do.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

*Sometimes I act a fool but that ain't me.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

*I ain't mad when I the cops bust me.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

*I ain't bad, I'm just drawn this way.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

*Sometimes I'm ignorant for weeks.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

*Uhh.. what?

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

*So.. not my fault? Or what? Speak English!

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

So.. no good deed goes unpunished? Speak English!

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Uhhh.. Ok.

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Yeah, I got some arthritis.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Ibuprofen. Naproxen Sodium too.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Thanks, indeed. But how you figure I've sinned?

Best translation and answers I was able to look up on the intarwebs.

[dhs12345]

Reminder to self. I’ll check with my wife tonight. She’s is a bit of a biblical scholar.

[SoConPubbie]

I would call it conviction of the sinner who has just discovered his state, his condition, as God sees him.

At the end of the chapter, the man starts to call out to Christ for deliverance from his condition, this state of out-of-control sinning.

At the beginning of chapter 8, we see that the man has been delivered from this state and is now living in Christ.

Romans 8:1-16:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:



In short, chapter 7 describes the awakening of the Sinner, and chapter 8 describes the New Birth, Born-Again experience of the Sinner.

The key is the condemnation the sinner is dealing with in Chapter 7, because he can't stop sinning. Chapter 8, vs. 1, then states there is now no more condemnation to those in Christ Jesus and then Paul goes on to describe what can only be a born-again experience.

The two chapters are married to each other, and in my opinion, two of the most important chapters in the bible.

Sadly, many of those calling themselves Christians, and even more sadly, many of those calling themselves Christian Ministers, only read as far as chapter 7, as if it gives them an excuse to live in their sin, thereby denying Christ and his greatest gift, victory over the sin in our lives.

[workerbee]

1. Why do you ask?

2. Seriously — you live in Congo?

[Safrguns]

It helps if you start at the beginning of the chapter.

It is a logical progression showing that we are not under the law, but rather under the new covenant of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice... However, he also shows in this argument that born again christians should not use this as an excuse to sin, because it can still lead to our physical death.

Just because we have Christ does not free us from the law unto our flesh... but it does free us from the “Law of sin and death” which directly governs our life after death.

Someone who has received Jesus as their savior cannot revoke their salvation by sinning... but they are not freed from the immediate consequences of sin, which brings judgment to the flesh.

[Salvation]

No YOPIOS out of me.

Your Own Personal Interpretation Of Scripture.

[RedStateRocker]

I think it is also of a piece with his argument, made often and in different ways, that ‘The Law’ has as it's main goal *NOT*ti make us ‘better people’ but to make us aware of God's grace (and our need of it).

and also, I think, he is trying to be reassuring to believers - saying, in the humblest way possible “even I, educated, with as much dedication and energy as any human could ever have, having even had an encounter with the Risen Christ, and *I* still have all the same problems, temptations and frustrations as anybody, so take heart”

[BykrBayb]

I’m drawn toward sinful behavior. The things I want to do, are sinful things. When I resist those things, and do what God tells me (even though I don’t want to), I begin to change, and am drawn toward the good behavior. I begin to hate the sinful behavior that I once enjoyed.

That’s what I get out of it.

[Iscool]

It's not a matter of interpretation...It's a matter of studying scripture to get the entire picture...

It's a matter of understanding what happens when a person is 'born again'...

Born again Christians end up with a 'circumcision'...Unlike the Jews, our circumcision; it's spiritual...

Col_2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Putting off the body of the sins of the flesh...Interesting statement...

When we understand our human makeup, made in the image of God,

1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

we can see that we have a fleshy body with a soul and a spirit inside...If one want's to take the time to study, he/she will find that the body, soul and spirit are connected to each other...

But, no longer for the born again Christian...

Luk_8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Act_11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

We are saved by believing the words of God which tell us that salvation comes by belief in the Son...

Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Those words of God in the scriptures thru our spiritual rebirth separate the soul and spirit from the flesh of the body in that spiritual circumcision made without hands...

This operation gives us another 'man'...A new man...We how have an old man and a new man we are walking around with...An old nature and a new nature right within the same body...The one (flesh) loves to sin and the other (spirit) loves to please God...

This is where Romans 7 comes in...

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Of course the topic includes many, many, many more scriptures...If one takes the time to study up on the old man and new man and the new birth and then comes back and reads these verses in Romans, it all falls into place...

[LearsFool]

The recurring contrast throughout Romans is between justification by law and justification by faith.

Justification by law is accomplished (if at all!) by the flesh, whereas justification by faith is accomplished by the spirit.

Justification by law is accomplished only by perfect law-keeping. By contrast, justification by faith is accomplished by submission to the gospel of Christ.

So while the flesh may still fail (and does), the spirit obeys the requirements of the gospel, “the law of Christ”, and God in His mercy justifies us in forgiving our sins. This is the state of one who has “died to sin”, and been “buried with Him through baptism”. (See ch. 6.)

[conservativeimage]

It's called identity crisis or hypnosis. It's cured through meditation. If nothing has helped and you're desperate enough to really change, go to antidoteforall.com and follow the instructions.

[ColdSteelTalon]

Paul is saying that he is glad that when he sins that Christ covers his sins. He is talking about man’s natural state vs. Christ’s grace.