Posted on 07/12/2014 8:50:54 AM PDT by Legatus
Some Papal Quotes that somehow and in some way beyond my meager intellect are in continuity with each other, or something.
First Quote
Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441. ex cathedra (infallibly defined):
“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has persevered within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/FLORENCE.HTM#4
Second Quote
“I’m not interested in converting Evangelicals to Catholicism. I want people to find Jesus in their own community. There are so many doctrines we will never agree on. Let’s not spend our time on those. Rather, let’s be about showing the love of Jesus.” --Pope Francis 2014
Yeah. Umm. So. Discuss. Or something.
Bonus Quotes for discussion purposes.
Pope PIUS IX, the Holy Office-- THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED :
15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. --condemned Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851.
16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. --condemned Encyclical "Qui pluribus," Nov. 9, 1846.
17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. -- condemned
Encyclical "Quanto conficiamur," Aug. 10, 1863, etc.
18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. --condemned Encyclical "Noscitis," Dec. 8, 1849.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm
ll.htm
Are you calling Pope Francis a pagan? I thought your type like him, compared to pre VCII popes.
My eternal future has been secured by the death and resurrection of Jesus, the Christ. In His own words He assured me of that.
"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24)
It’s Catholics who tell us they aren’t sure if they will go to heaven or not. I simply want to tell them that if they leave that apostate “church” they can have the assurance I have. The Holy Spirit bears witness that I am a son of the almighty God.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And the main concern of the OP has been lost ..... again.
I guess it’s easier to deal with the typical Catholic vs Protestant issues than the ones right in our own house.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Hebrews 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
According to your quote, all "christians" go to Heaven, no exceptions, right?
Not those that call themselves Christians but aren’t.
ebb tide, there is a remnant amongst protestants that holds true to the Reformation, that is, the correction of errors that men of that time saw in the Roman Catholic Church.
This remnant recognizes the authority and infallibility of Scripture, which is God-breathed, and therefore looks to Scripture on all matters of faith and practice. Where Scripture is silent, there is liberty, where a single verse is unclear to the Christian, they should look to related verses that are numerous and more clear, thus shedding light on the verse that we are not so sure of. We realize that some things remain a mystery to man, who can not fully know the mind of God (as Scripture says).
We see other Christians as brothers in Christ - even if our denomination can not be in communion with their denomination. Our reading of Scripture makes us of the mind that though a denomination may have erroneous teaching, there may well be individuals belonging to it that are saved, despite the errors of their church’s leadership, but this is difficult due to the erroneous teaching.
1) some offshoot denominations along the lines of what would be called “evangelicals” or “dispensationalists” have lost the New Testament teaching that the New Testament Church is the new Jerusalem that is written of in the Bible. Those denominations are all sadly mislead, and have turned away from the eschatology that was commonly understood from the beginnings of the Church until about the 1700’s. The Bible clearly speaks of an optimistic eschatology, from Genesis to Revelation, of gradual dominion of Christ over the world in time and history, i.e., the advancement of Christ’s Kingdom on earth, and that his second coming (singular, one-time event) will be the ultimate victory of his dominion, or conquering of the world, which until then is an ongoing process. The early members of the cults of the 1800’s in America were not Christians that were knowledgeable of the Bible and regularly attended Churches that had solid preaching of sound doctrine. The early members of these “cult” sects where basically ignorant of the Bible, so they were easily lead astray by heretical preaching. The Reformed denominations allowed heretical doctrine to enter into their seminaries in the 1800’s, often on what would seem to be points that were rather abstract to the unbeliever or professing Christian ignorant of Scripture. These heresies caused denominations to split, as individual congregations were either led astray with the heresy or recoiled in shock and were forced to break ties with the heretical congregations. Thus we have only a small remnant today that still holds on to the understanding gained hundreds of years ago, which cost so many dearly, and was even the reason for much of the beginnings of the United States.
2) The Reformed denominations which remain for the most part true to the Reformation, patiently work towards and await on the Lord in that all Christians will come to know the truth of God’s Word; the various denominations will eventually either correct their own errors or recede. The Word is the two-edged sword that proceeds from Christ’s mouth, it’s the sword which divides those who believe and those who reject the Word of God (which, in essence, is Christ, if you remember from John 1:14, “the Word was made flesh”), the Word - the Bible - is the sword with which Christ advances his Kingdom.
3) The essence of the Reformation was getting back to Scripture. For example, in Church government, Reformed Christians take the Bible for what is says, that Christ is the head of the Church, which is called the Bride of Christ. No man can place himself at the head of Christ’s Church; such a man is guilty of attempting to take the very place of Christ as “husband” to the Church. Such a Church, one with a man as its earthly head, thereby suggests the Biblical references to adultery or whoredom, as it as a body professes allegiance to two: the man as well as Christ. The only correction needed for that is to simply rule the Roman Catholic Church with its top leadership as an assembly, which would certainly be workable. This may seem shocking to some Roman Catholics because they have been told for centuries that they need to be blindly obedient to a single man, the Pope. Of course, all that need happen then is for Popes to gradually work towards this change.
4) The largest Protestant denominations have become completely corrupted and have been apostasizing for arguably two centuries. They pretty much either ignore the Bible or make up their own doctrine in a complete twisting of the Bible’s teaching. I think many of their heresies are actually very old heresies that came back since the people of say 150 years ago through today were not aware of the heresies and resolution of them in the old history of the Church. Since these heresies don’t even pass the “common sense” test, I don’t study them very much. How most people tend to think is that once they think a preacher of some kind has convinced them of something, or some books they’ve read about the Bible have convinced them of something, they simply refuse to give up their wrong ideas - even if one takes them through Scripture step by step and explains everything.
5) It’s essential truth, that is, essential to realize, that men can and do make mistakes, but Scripture is God-breathed, thus it has Divine authority. Scripture ITSELF tells us that Scripture - and Scripture ALONE - is to be the believer’s rule and guide. To gain perspective, i.e., to take into account the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD, that is, Biblical teaching in its totality, we must always review the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. Just think about the picture painted by the Old Testament regarding the concept of the ancient Israelites, God’s chosen people, which are the archetype of the New Testament Church, adding or taking away from Scripture. It was explicity forbidden, this prohibition was commonly known, there are consistent examples of God’s curse and chastisement when this was done, and there are consistent examples of God’s blessing when Scripture was followed precisely - VERY precisely. Even to the example of King Saul who gave a sacrifice, something ordinarily well-pleasing to God. He even did it out of concern for the nation of Israel. He had the best of intentions. But he did not do exactly as God’s prophet had instructed him, he did not wait for God’s prophet to come and do the sacrifice. God, speaking through his prophet, had given instructions which Saul did not follow because Saul’s faith failed him. The whole of the Old Testament reveals a very lengthy, very complex yet elegant, perfectly beautiful picture of what God wants us to do and refrain from doing, and if we use our God-given reasoning power to honestly study it, we will be moving towards an understanding of God’s instructions; we will be gaining wisdom, knowledge and truth.
I know that it is very difficult to go against one’s own background and history. I was raised a Methodist and never went to Church after high school, and I just converted a few years ago. Giving up the unscriptural Christmas tradition is one example of a tough hurdle for me. Well, tough until I realized that there are 52 holy days every year - the Lord’s Day, the Christian Sabbath. And I was celebrating a man-devised feast day, even while I was completely ignoring and rejecting and dishonoring what God actually does command of believers in Scripture. I had decades of dishonoring the Sabbath. I was breaking a commandment every week, and turning around once a year and feigning that I was a follower of Christ, by eating a big feast, putting up a tree and buying and receiving gifts - all of which Christ NEVER commanded. Was I celebrating Christmas then for Christ’s sake ? That’s impossible, because the Bible commands us directly to NOT ADD anything to God’s Word, and Christ commands our obedience to God’s Word.
OOOoooops. Nope, the New Testament “church” is not the New Jerusalem. I would love to see your scriptural support for you statement.
So what did you convert to? Neither of you seem to be willing to identify your religion(s).
Do you know what the word "vicar" means? As in Vicar of Christ?
I'm in agreement with you there.
At this point on the internet I prefer anonymity. I can tell you that I subscribe to the Westminster Confession of Faith.
http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/
I post the link hoping people will read it and follow the Scripture proof text references.
It can’t hurt to read something.
If I read something and I find it to be inaccurate, no harm to me in that.
If I read something and find that it is accurate, it helps me.
Why hide you lantern under a basket? If you're trying to save my soul, tell me what religion(s) I need to convert to.
I hate to, but yes Francis has demonstrated that he is not a minister of Yeshua.
Francis appears to be a loving man, but he is deeply separated from the word of Yehova.
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Now I know why there are so many Protestant religions. Y’all can’t agree on anything.
>> “How do y’all recognize each other?” <<
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There is no particular need for us to ‘recognize’ each other, as Yeshua plainly pointed out with the parable of the Tares.
What is important is that Yeshua will recognize us at the Last Trump!
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What the difference between Yeshua and Yehova?
>> “Nope, the New Testament “church” is not the New Jerusalem” <<
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I have to go with CB on this!
The “New Jerusalem” is the future dwelling place of the elect, in the presence of Yehova.
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