Posted on 06/08/2014 8:26:19 PM PDT by Phinneous
Jews defending Judaism with the best defense...
Were the Marx Brothers a bunch of Jewish comedians? You bet!
It all started with Yitzak (Isaac) which means in Hebrew, “he laughs.”
“I could probably do it the best”
I knew you were in the back of my mind when I posted this :)
But alas, we’re both waiting and waiting, right? First coming, second coming... it’s been a loooong time. We do believe in a 3rd, eternal temple you know, right?
You quoted one of the most beautiful stories in the Talmud, Rabbi Eliezar ben Hurkanus. He was actually excommunicated. Did you know that? Not for being wrong by the way... By the way, the whole story is part of a theme that there is G-d’s law in it’s absolute, and G-d’s law in it’s subjective application. Very deep subject to transcribe...
So if you care to, Christian SpecOps warrior, the Rabbi’s first claim is that Jesus was a Torah-observant Jew who did not explicitly call himself G-d (or a god, or whatever.) And that this was adjunct by the apostles. Thoughts?
The Rabbi sees but does not see, hears but does not hear. Yet he knows all things. I had two such rabbis/professors in grad school years ago (at a very large midwestern state university), at least one of whom is very well known today.
So, yawn.
More than just the apostles saw Him:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Over_how_many_people_saw_the_resurrected_Christ
According to Luke, 1. To Cleopas and his companion (24,13-31). 2. To Simon (Peter) (34). 3. To the eleven and others (36). According to John, 1. To Mary Magdalene (20,14-18). 2. To ten disciples (19-24). 3. To the eleven (26-29). 4. To Peter,John and others (21). According to Paul,
1. “He was seen of Cephas.” 2. “Then of the twelve.” 3. “After that,he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once.” 4. “After that he was seen of James.” 5. “Then of all the apostles.” 6. “And last of all he was seen of me also.” Answer According to 1 Corinthians 15:5-8,Paul indicated that over 500 believers together at once saw Christ alive,of whom most were still living at the time of writing,therefore their testimony could be verified. Besides this,Paul had indicated that Peter and the twelve (included Matthias,who replaced Judas Iscariot) had seen Him,then repeats that all the Apostles had seen Him. For 40 days,Christ had been seen,having eaten with the believers and having had contact physically with them,notably with Thomas,who doubted the reality of the resurrected Christ,until he met Him and touched Him.
A Gentile can be grafted onto the vine, however.
XC ping.
So he’s using the same excuses/reasoning that the priests and authorities used at the time of Jesus’ resurrection? How original...
And three million Jews saw the giving of the Torah at Mt. Sinai.
If you have ever read C.S. Lewis, you might have come across a phrase that went something like this...
~ He was either just who he said he was, the Christ, or He was a total lunatic, like someone who thought he was a fried egg ~
I have made my choice. The rest of you have been given free will to make your own.
I just wish I could be less a sinner than I am, so cast no stones in anyone else’s direction.
Yes, I think that is a most accurate assessment. I’m certain Jews would rather Christians be right than any other rival religion, since Christianity by its nature totally affirms Judaism as written, just outdates it. Also, no more dietary restrictions :D
“For they (the Jews) being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.” (Romans 10:3)
“For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” (James 2:10)
Since no one can save himself by perfectly keeping the law, we must have a savior or there is no hope.
.
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
Your comment might have been a nice contribution if it weren’t smarmy and deliberately insulting.
Name names....if I don’t know their denomination, I can’t tell you if it’s in the same ballpark. Were they Reconstructionist? Conservative? Orthodox?
A gentile can live a righteous life according to G-d’s will and his 7 commandments for non-Jews:
http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/62221/jewish/Universal-Morality.htm
Hence the stupidity of Jewish oral tradition. You can get excommunicated for being right, and yet we must accept their boasting and their truth claims?
By the way, the whole story is part of a theme that there is G-d’s law in it’s absolute, and G-d’s law in it’s subjective application.
It wasn't subjective. God spoke out of heaven and said Eliezar was correct. This is not part of a theme about God's law, but a part of the theme that the Rabbis are something like Demi-Gods, with rights even above God.
Scripturally, a majority of the Jews and their Rabbis have rarely been right, and have instead been condemned by Moses on down as a stiff necked and rebellious people, to whom the covenant was conditional and, inevitably, be put away for a better covenant.
But alas, we’re both waiting and waiting, right? First coming, second coming... it’s been a loooong time. We do believe in a 3rd, eternal temple you know, right?
We wait in peace, as the prophecies have been fulfilled. You wait in silence, or you comfort yourselves with the superstitious nonsense and the protections against them taught by your Rabbis, such as giving your kids epilepsy if you have sex with your wife too soon after going to the bathroom (a demon is hooked on you):
"The Rabbis taught: 'On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic.'" (Babylonian Talmud, Gittin 70a)
So if you care to, Christian SpecOps warrior, the Rabbi’s first claim is that Jesus was a Torah-observant Jew who did not explicitly call himself G-d (or a god, or whatever.) And that this was adjunct by the apostles. Thoughts?
Christ very clearly claimed to be God, accepted worship, was called God to His face, forgave sins, and even called himself the Lord of the Sabbath day (after disregarding the Pharisees' teachings on the matter), and was accused by the Jews of claiming to be God:
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by." (Joh 8:56-59)
Compare with:
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you
The Greek of John also agrees with the Greek of the Septuagint's translation of Exo 3:14.
He accepted worship:
Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Accused by the Jews:
"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God." (Joh 5:17-18)
Told to His face:
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." (Joh 20:28-29)
Forgive sins, leading the scribes to accuse Him of blasphemy:
"And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth." (Mat 9:2-3)
Declares himself Lord of the Sabbath day:
"And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." (Mar 2:23-28)
I think (and it’s actually halachically-derrived Jewish law) that we prefer Islam, when they’re not killing us.
It’s all dogmatic, though... like it says, Christians Good.
From whomever answered rabbi chizkiyah:
“... . But because he produced offspring only from the side of the Evil Inclination,all the offspring of mankind are born from the side of the Evil Inclination. They have no permanent existence therefore,because the Other Side has been mixed with them. ....”
Sounds like the passages dealing with original sin, I.E. the consequences of Adam and Eve disobeying G-d:
Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Given that all mankind are in such a state of sin, does it not then follow that some one completely outside the influence of sin would then be qualified to effect a solution to the problem?
“we prefer Islam, when they’re not killing us.”
....
Ummm, is that ever?
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