Protestants Need to Convert (and Bad Catholics need to Revert)

http://catholicism.org ^ | November 5, 2013 | Brother Andre Marie

[Elsie]

Exodus 32:32-33
 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”  But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.

 

Daniel 12:1
 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

 

 

 

Philippians 4:3
 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

 

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

 

 

Revelation 17:8
 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

 

 

Revelation 20:11-15
"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

Revelation 21:27

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

[Elsie]

My opinion is, immediately after death, we will be in a face to face relationship with Christ, forever.

Your opinion is held by vast numbers of people.

However; to do so, seems to me, is to ignore a LOT of Scripture that indicates otherwise.

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It does, however, make it a LOT easier for Catholic teaching to take hold, for if a Christian is ALREADY in the presence of the Lord, immediately after death, then why NOT put them to work helping those believers left on Earth??

[Elsie]

Perhaps one of the reasons that God wants us to pray to the Saints is because they provide inspirational examples of what it means to dedicate one’s life to Christ.

PERHAPS??

We are to emulate Christ; not some dead fella that ended up in the Vatican Whose Who book!

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Philippians 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus

"Take up your cross and follow ME.

[af_vet_1981]

The problem with the Catholic outlook on birth control is that they place the blame for all moral failure on it. They claim it's the CAUSE of our problems. That's all backwards. In reality, it's a SYMPTOM of our problems.

Substitute birth control with pornography and you have same problem. Nonetheless both are forbidden and the Did ache makes that clear. People are angry with the Catholic Church for not allowing them their sin of choice, be it pharmakeia, porneia, or abortion. They will argue to the death for their right to sin and take that rebellion to their judgment, except they repent and believe.

[impimp]

Philippians 1:19

[af_vet_1981]

It may seem that I take born-again Christianity less than seriously. I do not doubt the sincerity or even holiness of those who profess Jesus Christ as their Savior at the time that that commitment was made. I do not believe, however, that an 18-year old, burning with honest faith and knowledgeable of his or her commitment to Jesus Christ, will thereafter be immune from human nature and our common tendency to sin so that the person falls into serious sin thereafter. It is all too easy to say that sins committed forty years later prove the commitment to Christ to be a false one.

Very accurate example of the problem in those denominations; it reminds me of the sale;, once made, move on the the next customer and don't look back to really evaluate what is happening.

[metmom]

Don’t be lazy. Post the verse as well.

[impimp]

I thought you were being lazy since intercessory prayer is mentioned in the bible so many times.

[metmom]

Praying FOR someone is not praying TO someone.

I pray TO God FOR others.

I do not pray TO others instead of praying TO God.

So go ahead, show me some verse that shows that we are to pray TO others, someone other than God.

[Elsie]

I just got called ugly by a toad!!

If you continue to reply to me with total nonsense I will report you for harrasment.

[af_vet_1981]

Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

Do you believe (and do) this ?

[metmom]

Prayers TO God FOR people.

Not prayers TO people.

[Karl Spooner]

Where are Abraham and Lazarus then?

[Karl Spooner]

I thought you made yourself clear the first time!

[metmom]

Me, too.

I don’t have any idea how to phrase it any better.

[af_vet_1981]

Prayers TO God FOR people. Not prayers TO people.

No, a prayer to brethren to pray together with him to God, as it is written:

Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

But if you don't have faith, you don't have faith and should not do it

[impimp]

And this conversation ended up right where I thought it would. Non-Catholic Americans think pray means worshiping God. Non-American English speakers, whether Catholic or not, think pray means either worshiping God OR to ask someone for something. Catholics do not pray in the sense of worshiping saints, rather they pray (as in ask) saints to pray (as in worship) to God on their behalf (AKA intercessory prayer).

[af_vet_1981]

Non-Catholic Americans think pray means worshiping God.

To be fair, some also think it means preaching to the congregation while purporting to pray, but you are correct in the essential matter.

[metmom]

Catholics do not pray in the sense of worshiping saints, rather they pray (as in ask) saints to pray (as in worship) to God on their behalf (AKA intercessory prayer).

Nonsense. The internet is a wealth of Catholic prayers TO saints asking them FOR things, ie, that the saints themselves do things for the person praying.

A simple google search or *prayers to saints* gives you about 14,000,000 results in 0.31 seconds.

Here are some prayers TO Mary making requests of her FOR things.

http://www.marypages.com/PrayerstoMary.htm

Mary, Help of Those in Need

Holy Mary, help those in need, give strength to the weak, comfort the sorrowful, pray for God's people, assist the clergy, intercede for religious. Mary all who seek your help experience your unfailing protection. Amen.

Morning Consecration to Mary

My Queen, My Mother, I offer myself entirely to thee. And to show my devotion to thee, I offer thee this day, my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve.

Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own, keep me, guard me as thy property and possession. Amen.

Prayer to Our Lady of Guadalupe

Dear Mother, we love you. We thank you for your promise to help us in our need. We trust in your love that dries our tears and comforts us. Teach us to find our peace in your Son, Jesus, and bless us every day of our lives.

Help us to build a shrine in our hearts. Make it as beautiful as the one built for you on the Mount of Tepeyac. A shrine full of trust, hope, and love of Jesus growing stronger each day. Mary, you have chosen to remain with us by giving us your most wonderful and holy self-image on Juan Diego's cloak. May we feel your loving presence as we look upon your face. Like Juan, give us the courage to bring your message of hope to everyone.

You are our Mother and our inspiration. Hear our prayers and answer us. Amen.

The Memorare

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help or sought your intercession, was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto you, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother. To you I come, before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word incarnate, despise not my petitions, but, in your mercy, hear and answer me. Amen.

http://www.stcathek.org/OLPH.htm

Lady of Perpetual Help Novenas

First Novena Prayer ( 1st. and 5th. Saturday)

Behold at thy feet, O Mother of Perpetual Help,| a wretched sinner who has recourse to thee and confides in thee.| O Mother of mercy, have pity on me. I hear thee called by all the refuge and the hope of sinners:| be then, my refuge and my hope.

Assist me, for the love of Jesus Christ;| stretch forth thy hand to a miserable fallen creature who recommends himself to thee, and who devotes himself to thy service for ever.| I bless and thank Almighty God, who in His mercy has given me this confidence in thee,| which I hold to be a pledge of my eternal salvation.|

It is true that in the past I have miserably fallen into sin,| because I had not recourse to thee.| I know that, with thy help, I shall conquer.| I know too, that thou wilt assist me, if I recommend myself to thee;| but I fear dear Mother | that in time of danger, I may neglect to call on thee,| and thus lose my soul.| This grace, then, I ask of thee, and this I beg, with all the fervor of my soul,| that in all the attacks of hell I may ever have recourse to thee.| O Mary, help me.| O Mother of Perpetual Help, never suffer me to lose my God.

3 Ave’s

Hail Mary , full of grace , the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, JESUS. R: Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Second Novena Prayer (2nd. and 4th. Saturday) O Mother of Perpetual Help, grant that I may ever invoke thy most powerful name, which is the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. O purest Mary, O sweetest Mary, let thy name henceforth be ever on my lips. Delay not, O Blessed Lady, to help me, whenever I call on thee; for, in all my temptations, in all my needs, I shall never cease to call on thee, ever repeating thy sacred name, Mary, Mary. O what consolation, what sweetness, what confidence, what emotion fills my soul when I utter thy sacred name, or even only think of thee. I thank the Lord for having given thee, for my good, so sweet, so powerful, so lovely a name. But I will not be content with merely uttering thy name. Let my love for thee prompt me ever to hail thee, Mother of Perpetual Help.

3 Ave’s

Third Novena Prayer ( 3rd. Saturday)

O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, in order that thou mayest help us in our misery.

Thou are the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee: come to my aid, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me amongst thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou wilt protect me, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; nor even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee He will be appeased.

But one thing I fear: that in the hour of temptation I may through negligence fail to have recourse to thee and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me, therefore, the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace ever to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help. 3 Ave’s

P: Pray for us O Holy Mother of God

R: That we may be made worthy of the promises of eternal life

It's idolatry, plain and simple.

[impimp]

The Catholic Church does not allow deception to advance the faith (unlike Islam) so what I will tell you is the truth as I best understand it. The Saints can do nothing that would normally be a divine power - all they can do is pray to God for His divine power. I pray the prayers that you mention and I do not believe that Mary does anything directly it is God acting, after she asks Him to do something.