Posted on 02/07/2014 6:11:36 AM PST by CynicalBear
Percieved?
Visceral: characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect: a visceral reaction.
5.
characterized by or dealing with coarse or base emotions; earthy; crude: a visceral literary style.
Hate and Fear.
Perhaps you didn’t mean to personalize your angst. I don’t know.
Rolling out “visceral hate and fear of the subject” particularly in a religious context is pretty strong language don’t you think? Now I am NOT overly sensitive, and frankly don’t care what a stranger on the internet says to me. Your post does serve to illustrate my thesis: Where tribulation and rapture arguments are in play, Christians get really hysterical about things they cannot control or even understand.
But truly this is true on most of the Religion threads. I find the attitudes of most posters towards each other to be highly disappointing.
Well said.
That is a legitimate point of view. It however does not negate the legitimate views of a pre trib rapture. I also am intrigued by the reference to the Feast of Yom Teruah and all the other Jewish feasts. I will not however hold strictly to that time period.
I will say that bringing in the Jewish feasts etc brings in another level of prophetic insight that actually supports the view of the pre trib rapture of the church of this age of grace and the introduction of the last seven years of Daniel’s prophecy.
I do understand what you are saying and I’m with you there@!
They in no way support his eisegesis.
There is no secret pre-tribulation rapture in the Scriptures.
It is mentioned nowhere.
The burden of proof is on the claimant to demonstrate that the Scriptures clearly attest a pre-tribulation rapture.
His argument is that unless we read specific passages of Scripture against their context and against their meaning, we are "blind."
Let's take one example.
He harps on the Scriptural commonplace of "the unexpected hour."
Scripture says in several places that we will not know the hour of the parousia, that He will return at a time we will not be able to predict.
Your author abuses this clear teaching, by claiming, effectively, that what happens in that hour is that He whisks away the elect before the terrible phenomena of the Day begin.
But Scripture does not describe that hour in that way anywhere at all.
That's an external figment imposed on the text.
That is Darby's invention.
LOL Go figure ey? Actually, my contention with the “Hebrew rootss” crowd as well as the “Rood” followers is their lack of understanding of the New Testament covenant of grace and insistence of adherence to laws as a condition of salvation. They have not understood that the nation of Israel has seven years of the 490 prophesied in Daniel left so by design are replacement believers.
Please show me scriptures that show that those who are faithful followers of Christ and who put their trust in Him have ever or are told they will be subject to His wrath.
Scripture says “the day of the Lord” will come like a thief in the night. That is different and the context is different. Certainly different than saying the Lord is like a thief. Unfortunate word choice, and the writer implies He has the intent of a thief to steal from us. Do you believe that? I find the notion incredible in the extreme.
Revelation is obscure, hard to comprehend, to be sure. But if you seek you will find.
“Yeshua lived inside the Torah and spoke from Torah”
Yes, but being of the order of Melchizidek he spoke from its view point and not from the view point of the priestly orders of Aaron and the Levites. That is why, when he spoke from the Torah, he tore up the consciences of those who lived the Torah (even conforming to it with much technical perfection).
A prostitute should be stoned according to the Law, but that Law could only be executed by those who themselves were not in transgression of the Law. Christ could have killed the prostitute who was thrust before him as he was the living law and not in transgression of it, but he chose
to forgive and redeem that woman from the consequences of her being in transgression of the Torah. He was of Melchizidek...not of Aaron and Moses, being bound to a higher law of Love that offers grace to the sinbound, saving humans from hell and eternal destruction.
Being of Melchizidek, Christ was the one who sent the dream to Peter, of the unclean foods which repeated 3 times in which the voice said to Peter...”Rise and eat”...to which Peter replies “Not so for the food is unclean”...to which the Lord replies” That which I have made clean, let no man call unclean!”. At that point, Peter received visitors, servants from the centurion Cornelius... gentiles that never knew about feasts of trumpets, or jewish Holy days. Cornelius only knew about the fact that he cared about being righteous and of the deep longing in his heart for God.
Peter preached to him Jesus, the whole company were saved, the Holy Ghost fell upon them, they were baptized...and Peter, the Jew, realized for the first time that God was no respecter of persons; that in fact; Salvation had come not just to all Jewry, but to all men! God didn’t care about foods, feasts, circumcision, as he only cares to write his living Torah, the person of Jesus Christ, who was of the order of Melchizidek...not Aaron and Moses, into our living beings! The feasts are not put away, we are becoming what those feasts were supposed to commemorate!
As for not knowing the times of his coming, one could look at the feasts as an allusion. I’ll speak to what I think you might be saying. Christ already gave us a clue as to the timing of his coming, though not the exact(!) time of his coming. Christ spoke a time of rising disasters, wars as well as the moral conditions(like the days of Noah) that would be present at his coming. One could argue that since we see that Israel was made a nation and that there is a falling away of general morality and a rise of depraved lawlessness and blasphemous idealisms occurring, as well as talk of a new Babel like government that would unite the world...one could say the trumps have been blowing and now we await the move of God upon this world(but not knowing the exact(!) timing)!
I didn’t get that from the article at all. The connecting word was “veil” not “steal”.
Since the Father sends us the comforter in Jesus’ name to bring us to remember truth, there is no need to try with effort to learn the truth. Big mistake many people make!And of those effortful learning’s is twisting the scripture to twist the scriptures to believe that we will not have to live through the awful coming tribulation. If they had been showing Christians the pathway to real life, it would not matter what we have to suffer! Www.patriotoutreach.org has true prayer there...that is helping so many that the church has failed.
I liked his observation that if the time of the rescue of the church before the tribulation were known,
Satan would have an extermination program in place right before that.
"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." Hebrews 12:6
Very well put!
No wrath there. Unless you view chastisement of children somehow to be wrath.
God does have purpose for everything He does whether we fully understand it or not doesn’t He.
And it’s all for our good, we’ve been guaranteed...
so, we don’t really need to know what He hasn’t revealed.
I think He pretty well knew that we didn’t need to know more than He revealed in scripture.
Effectively you are arguing that wrath is whatever you say it is, and if someone presents a Scripture text that undermines your argument, your strategy is to explain it away semantically.
So when Christ scourged the moneychangers in the Temple he did not do it out of anger?
Um…..No. I think the clear distinction made in scripture speaks for itself.
>>So when Christ scourged the moneychangers in the Temple he did not do it out of anger?<<
I suppose we are down to semantics now. God did say we are not destined to His wrath and I’ll just leave others to their interpretation of what that means for them.
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