Posted on 12/28/2013 5:31:51 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
The best part of this jaw-dropping display of ignorance from MSNBC’s Joy Reid on Christianity? It comes in a segment called — wait for it — “Pretenders”! Reid argues that Sarah Palin, whose latest book celebrates Christmas, was a hypocrite and a bad Christian because … she put up a Christmas tree! Why, the noted Biblical scholar Reid smirked, that’s a violation of Scripture:
(VIDEO-AT-LINK)
JOY REID, SUBSTITUTE HOST: In “Pretenders” tonight, a merry Palin Christmas. Sarah Palin dropped by Fox & Friends to promote her manifesto on Christmas purity. She brought a treat better than Christmas cookies – family photos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN: In Skagway, Alaska, a little gold mining town where my dad was teaching school and coaching basketball, and that’s my older brother and older sister. And then that was on a college break. We were all in college at the same time my siblings and I home for an alumni basketball game in Alaska.
STEVE DOOCY, HOST: That’s really the key, isn’t it, as we look at another picture of the family. There they are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Not so fast, Palin. We learned some important lessons on Monday about all the arbor activity in those pictures. I even had to break out the good book, not hers of course.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Certain parts of the Bible also appear to preach against let’s say, I don’t know, Christmas trees. Here’s Jeremiah 10-10, it reads:
“For the practices of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. Like a scare crow in a cucumber field, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good.”
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Now, a Christmas purist wouldn’t want to stray from the Bible on Christmas, would she? Everyone celebrates Christmas in their own special way. That could mean being tree-side with the family or even profiting off your [cause?] and commercialism. But if Sarah Palin wants us to believe there’s only one true meaning of Christmas, she can keep on pretending. Unlike the segment with Michael Eric Dyson, which was an extemporaneous discussion where the guest said something utterly ignorant, this segment was written and produced ahead of time. It apparently escaped everyone at MSNBC, including Reid, that no one buys a Christmas tree and “shapes it with a chisel” into “idols that cannot speak.” No one is worshiping the tree. And unlike the segment with Dyson, Reid and MSNBC produce the Scripture reading where that distinction is actually explicit and clear, and utterly refutes the argument as Reid is making it in an attempt to cheap-shot Palin … and a lot of other Christians over a Christian holy day.
Did anyone at MSNBC bother to research this particular reference from Jeremiah before calling hundreds of millions of Christians idolaters? Did they even bother to read it for comprehension, or did they just do a search at Bible Gateway for “tree” to fit their preconceived argument? And did no editor at MSNBC have even enough of a passing familiarity with Christianity, the Bible, and Christmas trees to think, “Hey, maybe we’ve got this argument wrong?”
Layers of fact-checkers and editors, indeed.
Quite obviously, Reid and her cohorts at MSNBC like to think of themselves as the smartest people in the room. Unfortunately, as Reid has demonstrated all week, they’re just pretenders.
Note: I linked Noel Sheppard and Newsbusters on this, and be sure to read all of Noel’s post, which is well researched. Maybe MSNBC could learn a lesson from him.
Hey if you wish to adhere to the Doctrines of men fine, do as the Heathen do and ignore God’s warning. Also, I linked to article by David Pack, so I’ll just assume you didn’t read it. Here’s a link to the KJV of Jeremiah 10, it is pretty simple to read and understand what God is warning against.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah%2010&version=KJV
Ahem...
In kind, for the moment I will assume you are basing your reply out of ignorance as opposed to intent to outright obfuscate. I will assume you are ignorant of the teachings espoused by the author and his 'church'. On what web site was it posted and what do the backers of that website espouse?
For your edification, this was posted on the Real Truth website from the Restored Church of God. You may remember The Plain Truth as the magazine mouthpiece of Herbert W. Armstrong and his 'Worldwide Church of God. Your linked website is from one of about three splinter groups that formed when WWCOG became unstable following their Messiah Armstrong's death. The quote in the previous post (that says among other things that HWA's 'church' the WWGOG is the only true church..) is from their 'about us' page.
I also note that you did not respond as to whether you thought that MSNBC properly used the Jeremiah verse taking into account a proper exegesis . In other words, did they interpret it properly, or did they, as many have done, stripped the verse out of its supporting context and then read their bias INTO the verse?
Also, I again rejoin that I did not know that Baptists of any stripe embraced the teachings of the man Herbert W. Armstrong. Either your Baptist church is extremely strange, or you are misrepresenting your affiliations.
The fact that you link to an RCOG/WWCOG website says much..
Maybe your mileage varies.
I choose the article because it was a good summary. What part besides its source do you find wrong? There are thousands of articles and historical books that show the Pagan origins of Christmas and the use of trees as a phallus symbol of Nimrod and Osiris in Babylon.
Yes, I believe that MSNBC more or less used the scripture correctly that God warns against doing as the heathen, and the heathen from Babylon on cut trees and decorated them. Its been my experience that most Christians don’t read the Bible or take it literally and instead follow the traditions and doctrines of men
Where in the Bible can you find scripture that justifies this practice of Tress as being from God? I only follow whats in God’s word and God’s word clearly warns not to do this.
And yes you are right I know nothing of that Church, but that doesn’t mean their article is wrong on the origins of Christmas.
Yep - the passage is about making worthless idols out of the same wood that one would use to make a piece of furniture or to burn to cook their food - nothing to do with decorations.
Maybe true but I don’t think that is the question. Not only MSNBC is it smearing Sarah Palin thet are also slandering Christians. So MSNBC holds themselves out as theological determiner of what the Christmas Tree that is traditional with Christians represents? The fact is that Christians worship the birth of Christ at Christmas whether Christ was born in December or not. No one worships a tree. MSNBC is pointedly disparaging Christianity, not the tree. Joy Reid should have also have noted what Christ said.
“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you”
Matthew 5:44
Maybe true but I don’t think that is the question. Not only MSNBC is it smearing Sarah Palin thet are also slandering Christians. So MSNBC holds themselves out as theological determiner of what the Christmas Tree that is traditional with Christians represents? The fact is that Christians worship the birth of Christ at Christmas whether Christ was born in December or not. No one worships a tree. MSNBC is pointedly disparaging Christianity, not the tree. Joy Reid should have also have noted what Christ said.
“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you”
Matthew 5:44
With that in mind are you telling me Christ sinned because he was a carpenter and chiseled trees? Really?
Btw, this sounds like painted woodwork in your house. You don't have any, do you?
You know, I think you are correct in your interpretation of this Scripture as it would apply to todays world. And I'm sure that JohnK probably lives in a cave so as to follow this proper interpretation and not be like the heathen who chop down trees and form them with saws and chisels and decorate the finished product with paint and trim...
Only a logical extension of such an exegetic.. If it sounds silly...
A similar passage can be found in Isaiah 44:12 and following. (Maybe we should tell MSNBC about that one too... ;-)
Scripture twisting is a popular past time. People would be better served to look to what it actually says.
The KJV of Jeremiah says nothing of forming them with saws and chisels, you’re either reading a doctored up translation or adding the commentary of apologists who seek to Justify their own Doctrine.
Here’s the Scripture, read it for yourself it is pretty simple to understand:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah%2010&version=KJV
The KJV only mentions cutting down with an axe. No chisels, no shaping. Where do you get these words?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah%2010&version=KJV
Read the Scripture it is easy to understand. The Christian is not under the law, but the law and the old testament exists for teaching and understanding. Once you understand the origins of the Pagan Tree (as phallic symbol to a Sun god) that was “Christianized” by the Romans you will understand why they were banned by the Puritans and why I no longer put one in my house.
I challenge you to find one piece of scripture from the KJV Bible justifying a Christmas Tree.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah%2010&version=KJV
For me It’s not about worship of a tree, it’s about obedience to the one true God.
Psalm 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
A Christmas tree is not an idol, it is a decoration.
I challenge you to find one piece of scripture from the KJV Bible justifying a Christmas Tree.
It doesn't say to put up a manger either. Your argument is specious.
I also don't use King Jimmy. We don't speak that way anymore and he had the translation done as penance. The NIV uses the earliest texts available for translation. I prefer it.
From the article....did you read it?
Jeremiah 10: 8-10
8 They are all senseless and foolish;
they are taught by worthless wooden idols.
9 Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish
and gold from Uphaz.
What the craftsman and goldsmith have made
is then dressed in blue and purple—
all made by skilled workers.
10 But the Lord is the true God;
he is the living God, the eternal King.
When he is angry, the earth trembles;
the nations cannot endure his wrath.
I only use the King James Version, MSNBC using a liberalized modern version is not real surprising.
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