There is no miracles. There is only the bible in it's original language -the King's english. It's complete so it is wholesome ink on paper. So there. Silly. ROFL!!!!
Posted on 02/09/2013 5:00:30 PM PST by wesagain
“Your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions,” asserts the promise of God from the book of Joel.
Yet some of those men reportedly seeing visions and dreams are neither Jews nor Christians … but Muslims.
What’s more, Middle East evangelists report the dreamers are coming to Christianity because of their visions of Jesus.
According to a CBN report, Christian Middle East evangelist Hazem Farraj’s television program “Reflections” is reaching a large Muslim audience. Farraj told CBN that he hears from Muslims who report having dreams or visions of Jesus.
Tom Doyle, an evangelist, pastor and the E3 Partners Ministry director for the Middle East and Central Asia says it’s true: Muslims are coming to Christianity through dreams and visions.
“Great things are happening in the Muslim world,” Doyle said in an email to WND. “It’s all very unexpected.”
Doyle told WND that he is familiar with Farraj’s program and that Jesus is breaking through where missionaries have not succeeded.
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“We’ve been seeing this for 15 years now, where Muslims are no longer Muslims but are Jesus followers,” Doyle said. “It’s someone who is a Christian, someone who is willing to die for Jesus.
“It all started with them with a dream,” Doyle said. “They had a Jesus dream, and some of them had many Jesus dreams. They would seek out Christians after a while because the dreams would get so intense that they wanted an answer.”
Doyle explains there is still a difficult process involved for a Muslim to convert to Christianity, even for those who.....
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
look up your salvation draweth nigh
Come Lord Jesus.
I don’t believe it. He is not in the desert, He is not in the secret chambers, He is sitting at the right hand of God until He returns.
I believe it not.
The Word of God in the Bible is sufficient for the Holy Spirit to bring them to Faith in Him.
OK. so some see these dreams and convert to Christianity. Then what? Muslims don’t seem to like it when other muslims leave the faith. Executions, torture. Yeah, great things are happening in the middle east. :-)
Are you denying that the Holy Spirit has been active in drawing people to God? What in scripture would deny that the Holy Spirit could cause these dreams? Or even that the word from scripture instilled something in the minds of those people to cause those dreams?
I certainly believe it could happen. Hope it really is.
Jesus said that we would suffer for Him. Especially in the Last Days. Maranatha.
See the comments of Turkish pastor Fikret Bocek, here
Whenever I am in the US people in different churches tell me that thousands of Muslims are converting through dreams and visions. Some missionaries here are exaggerating the situation when they tell their tales in their own countries. Some missionaries even encourage each other to look look for those stories in Turkish villages where dreams are shared in public gatherings with some folk tales…etc. I have even seen some missionaries asking Muslim converts whether they remember seeing an old man in their dreams! And encouraging a form of deception. I don’t see people converting through dreams or visions here in Turkey. I have heard some people dreaming about an old man with white beard. Old man with white beard is common among the Muslim Arab, Iranians and Shamanistic Turkish cultures. When you encourage people to talk about their dreams they will tell you stories. But Christians should abandon this practice. How can Muslims repent without the preaching of the Word? How can a Muslim become a Christian after seeing an old man in his/her dream without knowing anything about Christ’s substitutionary atonement?
While you're there, listen to the interview with him here. It's very encouraging.
I think you misread what I said - I have read about several of the stories of Jesus ‘appearing’ - I don’t believe it nor weeping statues, etc. Are these people still muslim? If they are, there’s your answer.
Yes, that is what I am saying - I think they hace to hear the Word of God in the Bible and affirm the deity of Christ - if they truly conert away from islam which denies the deity of Christ.
I’m hoping they’ll have visions of Jesus with a Ruger 44 in one hand and a Louisville Slugger in the other!
Bring it!
“They’re motivated to find a Bible, find a Christian and ask what this means. Ninety-five percent of the Muslims who are now Jesus followers say that they were led to Christ by someone explaining the dream to them,” Doyle said."
Sounds as though that motivation satisfies your hearing the Word of God requirement. Then they approach a Christian for clarification/further explanation of what they're reading, who this Jesus is, leading to salvation.
Nor I.
>> Are these people still muslim?<<
Maybe I misread but I thought they had converted.
I may have misread or “assumed” and they didn’t actually convert. I’m with you on the skepticism however when it comes to “visions”, “apparitions” and such.
I bet those conversions are liberating experiences. Just the ignorance dropping off would be exhilarating. Thank you Jesus!
I would simply ask, “and they know it is Jesus, HOW? Who knows what He looks like? Just like the Mary “apparitions”.
I would pray for real converts and I am sure there are some - I am also reminded that Pat Robertson was hanging around ‘rev’ Moon, a man who declared he could be ‘the next messiah’. Much of CBN’s stuff I take with a grain of salt.
Good questions
And occasionally via an apparition or two.
On an highly emotional spiritual level there has been a great common-ground meeting place between Rome and Mecca in the town of Fatima in Portugal. To quote a Catholic news organization, "Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed." On October 23, 1995, Iranian television began running stories that the apparitions in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 were religious phenomena of Muslim origin.” Islam teaches that men can achieve favor with God by what a person does. On the Fatima site in Portugal May 13th 2000, the Pope proclaimed a message that could be readily accepted by both Muslims and Catholics. “‘Pray, pray much and make sacrifices for sinners; many souls go to hell because they have no one to pray and make sacrifices for them’....”
-- From the thread The Papacy and Islam
you're amazing....there have probably been more than a hundred apparitions, visions etc. over the years, many quite thoroughly studied and investigated.....and you just pooh-pooh them all as "nothing"...????????
We Christians had better not be so arrogant as to think that God only addresses Himself to us.
His Son died for ALL men.
I have a hard time believing that God has super glued, per se, our Savior to the throne. Yes I truly believe He resides at the right side of God. However, did He not appear to Saul on the road to Damascus?
Here is the main thing. When we get to Heaven, will it matter?
Gotta watch chewing too much Kat, Achmed.
‘Sides, as a Muslim you should be dreamin’ about boys and goats, shouldn’t you?
God’s time is not our time. We cannot fathom his movements — virtually everywhere at once or his timing.
Why doubt God?
Back in 1994, I traveled to Israel to teach a programming class at an Intel facility in Haifa. The day before the class, I was hosted by a Christian Arab leader (not a Muslim convert) by arrangement with a University in the US. Prior to this, I had received a number of fascinating letters from the Jesus Film Project about this very phenomenon of Muslims becoming Christians due to a vision of Jesus.
After driving me all over Galilee, up into the Golan Heights and beyond that into a Druze village overlooking Mt. Hermon in Syria, he took me back to my hotel. A few nights later I visited his home to help him set up email. On the way back to Haifa that night, he told me a story about a newspaper account in the Haifa (Jewish) paper of a Muslim woman who had been admitted to a Jewish hospital in Haifa with cancer. According to the paper she reported having a vision of Jesus, was healed by Him and became a Christian. Note: I was blown away by this because I had not previously told him about the Jesus Film Project letters I had received.
My problem was that no Christian had been involved and I thought that God always uses believers to spread the Gospel.
When I got back to the states, my pastor (at that time) had me recount this story in all of the services one Sunday. Between two of the services, a person who was a missionary to the Philippines told me that there was a group of Christians there who were specifically praying that God would reveal Himself to Muslims in dreams because Muslims consider dreams to be authoritative. They also believe that demons cannot masquerade as prophets (e.g. Jesus) in dreams.
This appears to have been going on now for decades. Yes, many of these people are connecting up with Christian ministries (e.g. the Jesus Film Project, radio stations, etc.)
Have you ever had a dream where you “knew” you could fly?
Have you ever had a dream where you “knew” the person you were talking to was your deceased mother, but the figure in your dream looked nothing like her? But, your heart leapt at being able to talk with her and you woke up feeling wonderful?
God works in mysterious ways. Don’t try to anchor Him to our pedestrian intellect.
there was a group of Christians there who were specifically praying that God would reveal Himself to Muslims in dreams because Muslims consider dreams to be authoritative.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I will start doing this.
“I met a man yesterday who said he saw a Jesus dream and he didn’t know what to do with it, so he got deeper into his Muslim faith,” Doyle said. “Then he went to Mecca on the hajj, and on the first time around the Kabah, he saw a vision of Jesus standing in front of him.”
Doyle said the man told him Jesus had a message: “You’re on the wrong path; you’re on the wrong road. Leave this place and come follow me.”
“This man is getting baptized in the next few weeks,” Doyle said.”
Amazing!
There is no miracles. There is only the bible in it's original language -the King's english. It's complete so it is wholesome ink on paper. So there. Silly. ROFL!!!!
Weeping idols are not from God.
Remember when the Virgin Mary appeared at a Coptic Church in Egypt—she always appears in places that will soon be enmeshed in bloodshed and violence. Many Muslims cast away their prayer rugs and were baptized as Christians. Jesus hears our cries and our prayers are answered. Look to see his divine hand working in our land soon!
Another consideration is the comment you made that the Muslims believe that demons cannot masquerade as prophets in dreams is that most consider that Satan does not see out thoughts as God does. Only God is omniscient.
>> I would simply ask, “and they know it is Jesus, HOW?<<
Are we sure it matters? Once again I would say if it leads to a true conversion with acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior alone with veneration of Him alone we shouldn’t dismiss it out of hand without knowing the result in that persons life.
>> Just like the Mary “apparitions”.<<
I would say there is a huge difference there. Veneration of Mary or someone other than Jesus is not of God.
When it leads to veneration of someone other than Jesus it’s not of God. Also God condemned the use of statues in worship of Him so we can dismiss out of hand any involvement of “apparitions” that involve statures or images.
yes. Good point.
Well God does in the Bible speak via dreams also. Remember both Josephs, in the OT/NT?
Not this garbage again ... pitiful.
Fine, fine ... what "Catholic news organization" is it? Give the attribution and date, so we can read it in context.
On October 23, 1995, Iranian television began running stories that the apparitions in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 were religious phenomena of Muslim origin.”
They also "run stories" about how the Holocaust didn't happen. Everything for them is "a religious phenomenon of Muslim origin". Do you really think Iranian TV is a credible source?
Islam teaches that men can achieve favor with God by what a person does.
And Catholicism taught infallibly at Trent that no one can be saved by obedience to law apart from grace through Jesus Christ. Thanks for playing.
Yep, nothing...Not nothing really, deception...
I have heard the same from other sources.
It’s especially true during Ramadan.
There have to be some misguided souls in that death cult who really don’t get it and are sincerely seeking God, the Creator.
He will draw them.
THAT is why we’re to pray for our enemies, because they’re not really our enemies as much as God’s enemies. And He would rather have us hot or cold. He can do something with that. Nobody can do something with someone who doesn’t care (lukewarm).
But muslims DO have the NT and revere Jesus as a prophet.
They’re not completely ignorant of Him.
no!!!! God needs burning bushes, a whale regurgitating a human, a convenient Ram caught in some bushes, or a guy pounding on a rock getting water......O.K., now it's all clear!!!
if you have time, please comment on "our Lady of Guadalupe" and the existance of the cloak given to St. Juan Diego.
They are in the Bible (now). Weeping idols are not.
Just a teensy bit of difference.
Show me a single Biblical passage where God is approving of an idol.
Besides the fact that He detests idols. Hey, if you want to fall at the foot of an idol, don’t ask me to be a part of it. I won’t fall in front of an idol, wood, stone, ceramic or ortherwise.
Just a sampling:
Leviticus 19:4
Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:3-5 (in Context) Leviticus 19 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Leviticus 26:1
Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 26:1-3 (in Context) Leviticus 26 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Leviticus 26:30
And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Leviticus 26:29-31 (in Context) Leviticus 26 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Deuteronomy 29:17
And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them:)
Deuteronomy 29:16-18 (in Context) Deuteronomy 29 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
1 Samuel 31:9
And they cut off his head, and stripped off his armour, and sent into the land of the Philistines round about, to publish it in the house of their idols, and among the people.
1 Samuel 31:8-10 (in Context) 1 Samuel 31 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
1 Kings 15:12
And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.
1 Kings 15:11-13 (in Context) 1 Kings 15 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Exodus 20:4-5 4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
That takes care of the idols issue right there, weeping or not.
SO much for *apparitions*.
in every case that you cite, God condemned the idols because people were praying TO the idol instead of praying to God....Catholics use statuary to decorate buildings...they are works of art as are pictures....Some of the worlds most beloved works of art are sculptures....Enjoy them for what they are....decorations.
so you don't have a camera nor a picture of your mother???? You don't think that pictures in the paper are of any use, maybe satanic....your class yearbook had to really terrorize you.....how sad to completely misinterpret the meaning of a bible passage!!
You shall not bow down to them or serve them
I do not bow down to or serve the pictures I have of anyone.
Yep
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