Posted on 08/11/2012 10:06:41 AM PDT by Colofornian
...Romney keeps his focus simple: fix the economy. But others are fixated on something else: his faith.
SNIP
Some call it a cult...
Yet Mormons call themselves Christians, which raises eyebrows, especially within evangelical circles.
Shawn McCraney is a former Mormon who now hosts a show called, 'Heart of the Matter," where he witnesses to Mormons in Salt Lake City.
"...I didn't know the Lord and that led me to an internal angst."
"What happened was I came to realize that there was nothing I could do to get myself right before God -- where with Mormonism...it's you have to do it," he explained. "He gives you the opportunity, but it's up to you to perform, and I couldn't perform."
...any controversy over a Mormon president may...center on...whether Romney would put loyalty to the Mormon Church ahead of anything else.
Former Mormon and author Michael Moody has written the book, Mitt, Set Our People Free...
"When I was a little boy, the Mormon prophet was a more important man than the president of the United States," Moody told CBN News.
"Mitt Romney has knelt in the Mormon temples," he noted. "He has taken an oath of consecration. He has taken an oath of sacrifice. He has said that he will sacrifice everything that he is, and give all of his talents, and everything that he has and is to the Mormon Church."
...Moody said a Romney victory would be a big deal for the Mormon Church.
"If Mitt Romney gets in the White House, it's going to be a sign to all of the Mormon people that they're on the right path, that this is the truth, and it's going to help perpetuate their missionary program. It's going to put the Mormon Church in a more powerful position..."
(Excerpt) Read more at cbn.com ...
No. The question is do you want Romney or Obama. Those are the only two choices. That’s it.
Will I vote for a Mormon? Yep!!!
Besides being a first class troll, what are you trying to accomplish? I’ve been to Utah, and I’d that is the hell on earth you are certain will come of Mormon leadership, then I’ll take it over the hell we are now in.
Yes, Mormonism is a cult. A creepy micromanaging, guilt-loading cult.
Yes, the Mormon god is not the God of Israel.
But the article seems to imply that Willard will be the first non-Christian heretic in the White House.
I suggest that there were a few there before Willard in the last couple of centuries.
Colofornian as well as others have been posting in the religion forum exposing Mormonism since before 2002.
Why is it an issue now for some?
If you and others are annoyed, just don’t get on the religion forum.
And what do you think of Harry Reid as Senate majority leader for another 4 years? looking at the two men and how they have lived their lives, Romney is the much better and preferred person. And also in comparison to Obama, whom I’m guessing is your preferred person as president.
Nice reductionism, btw...comparing an elected oh...say, an elected Mormon dog catcher...vs. THE leader of the free world who is praying to a false god...a position, btw, where discernment is an absolute necessity...
You somehow are under the illusion that THE president of the free world needs less discernment than a lay Sunday School teacher you would be teaching to kids...
(Oh, & we got a glimpse of Mitt's "foreign policy" discernment re: the gaffes he made @ the start of the Olympic games in openly critiquing the UK's security of the games...even if somehow he was "right," you don't invite enemy terrorists to attack if you spot a given security weakness...that is something he should have shared privately vs. publicly...but we'll see more of this foreign policy lack of discernment with Mitt-as-prez)
GREAT POST!
Who says Mitt is a "godless" Mormon??? (I don't)
Actually, a truly godless Mormon would probably be a bit less dangerous at the helm of THE free world than a temple Mormon who thinks he's a "god-in-embryo."
****************************************
(You can see Marion G. Romney -- Mitt's father's cousin -- quote on this in post#2)
* "What is [man]? He had his being in the eternal worlds; he existed before he came here. He is not only the son of man, but he is the son of God also. He IS a God in embryo, and possesses within him a spark of that eternal flame..." (3rd "prophet" John Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, pp. 52-54, as cited in Teachings of the Presidents: John Taylor, p. 2, 2001 -- compiled & published by its "intellectual reserve" publishing trademark).
* "If we take man, he is said to have been made in the image of God...being his son, he is, of course, his offspring, an emanation from God...He...came forth possessing, in an embryonic state, ALL the faculties and powers of a God." (Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, p. 52, as cited in Teachings of the Presidents: John Taylor, p. 3, 2001).
Many people know of Spencer W. Kimball, the 12th "prophet" of the Lds church (1973-1985), as the man who allowed blacks to become Mormon priests in 1978.
But did you know Mormonism teaches you are all "gods in embryo"???(And Kimball was one of its key proponents)
Did you know that Mormonism teaches the false "gospel" of self-transformation -- of pulling yourself up by the bootstraps to become a god? (And Kimball was one of its key proponents)
Spencer W. Kimball on these very topics:
1969: "Being a god in embryo with the seeds of godhood neatly tucked away in him, and with the power to become a god eventually, man need not despair...he must...transform himself..." (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 173-174)
A couple he was advising in Kimball's office "did not understand that forgiveness is not a thing of days or months or even years but is a matter of intensity of feeling and transformation of self...This couple seemed to have no conception of satisfying the Lord, of paying the total penalties and obtaining a release..." (Ibid, p. 156)
To Kimball, you had to "pay the total penalties" for your sin -- vs. that being a role occupied by the true Jesus Christ.
September, 1974: Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. Source: http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6057 (Spencer W. Kimball speech entitled Be Ye Therefore Perfect 9/17/74 devotional address @ BYU)
1975: Man is created in the image of God. He is a god in embryo. He has the seeds of godhood within him, and he can, if he is normal, pick himself up by his bootstraps and literally move himself from where he is to where he shows he should be." Source: http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/LovevsLust.pdf, "Love vs. Lust," Spencer W. Kimball, Provo: BYU Publications, 1975
November 1977: Self-mastery, then, is the key, and every person should study his own life, his own desires and wants and cravings, and bring them under control. Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. To be perfect, one can turn to many areas as a starting place....As we have stated before, the way to perfection seems to be a changing of one’s life—to substitute the good for the evil in every case. Source: By President Spencer W. Kimball An address given to students of Weber State College, Ogden, Utah on 4 November 1977 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=244ed0640b96b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
July, 1978 Ensign Magazine: Lds church officially endorses Kimball Weber State College comments by publishing them in their official magazine
This quote also becomes part of Chapter 19 of what Lds officially teach college students in their Institute curricula: See http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/doc-gosp-11-20-19.asp ***********
Do you believe life begins at birth -- or conception?
Well the same question -- spiritually applies here re: Mormon doctrine and their querky interpretation that men are already "gods in embryo."
(Sorry, but already "divine" ones is NOTHING compared to the Eastern Orthodox view):
"What is [man]? He had his being in the eternal worlds; he existed before he came here. He is not only the son of man, but he is the son of God also. He IS a God in embryo, and possesses within him a spark of that eternal flame..." (3rd "prophet" John Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, pp. 52-54, as cited in Teachings of the Presidents: John Taylor, p. 2, 2001 -- compiled & published by its "intellectual reserve" publishing trademark). "If we take man, he is said to have been made in the image of God...being his son, he is, of course, his offspring, an emanation from God...He...came forth possessing, in an embryonic state, ALL the faculties and powers of a God." (Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, p. 52, as cited in Teachings of the Presidents: John Taylor, p. 3, 2001).
Many people know of Spencer W. Kimball, the 12th "prophet" of the Lds church (1973-1985), as the man who allowed blacks to become Mormon priests in 1978.
But did you know Mormonism teaches you are all "gods in embryo"???(And Kimball was one of its key proponents)
Did you know that Mormonism teaches the false "gospel" of self-transformation -- of pulling yourself up by the bootstraps to become a god? (And Kimball was one of its key proponents)
Spencer W. Kimball on these very topics:
1969 "Being a god in embryo with the seeds of godhood neatly tucked away in him, and with the power to become a god eventually, man need not despair...he must...transform himself..." (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 173-174)
A couple he was advising in Kimball's office "did not understand that forgiveness is not a thing of days or months or even years but is a matter of intensity of feeling and transformation of self...This couple seemed to have no conception of satisfying the Lord, of paying the total penalties and obtaining a release..." (Ibid, p. 156)
To Kimball, you had to "pay the total penalties" for your sin -- vs. that being a role occupied by the true Jesus Christ.
September, 1974: Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. Source: http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6057 (Spencer W. Kimball speech entitled Be Ye Therefore Perfect 9/17/74 devotional address @ BYU)
1975: Man is created in the image of God. He is a god in embryo. He has the seeds of godhood within him, and he can, if he is normal, pick himself up by his bootstraps and literally move himself from where he is to where he shows he should be." Source: http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/LovevsLust.pdf, "Love vs. Lust," Spencer W. Kimball, Provo: BYU Publications, 1975
November 1977: Self-mastery, then, is the key, and every person should study his own life, his own desires and wants and cravings, and bring them under control. Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. To be perfect, one can turn to many areas as a starting place....As we have stated before, the way to perfection seems to be a changing of one’s life—to substitute the good for the evil in every case. Source: By President Spencer W. Kimball An address given to students of Weber State College, Ogden, Utah on 4 November 1977 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=244ed0640b96b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
July, 1978 Ensign Magazine: Lds church officially endorses Kimball Weber State College comments by publishing them in their official magazine
This quote also becomes part of Chapter 19 of what Lds officially teach college students in their Institute curricula: See http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/doc-gosp-11-20-19.asp
Here’s how I see it. We had four, count them, four, years to find a man to replace the abomination who now occupies the office of president. We are a day late and a dollar short in finding Mr. Perfect. Mitt will do. I like, but do not love, Mitt Romney. I will give him my support in the belief that the demon we now have in the white house will be knocked into political obscurity. I am a PRAGMATIST on this issue. Let us make the best of what we have to work with. Mitt is misguided where religion is concerned but I can and will pray for God to guide him while he is at least exercising Godly principles in his life.
>> I can and will pray for God to guide him while he is at least exercising Godly principles in his life.
Excellent point. I’ll do likewise.
He didn’t exactly establish a Mormon caliphate in Massachusetts when he was governor. It appears to be the same collection of tax-and-regulation-loving morons it’s always been.
NO thanks!
Question at hand: Is it important to have a POTUS whose God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
Principle #1: The 'Batphone' Principle: During a Jack Bauer-type of '24' crisis [Let's have a 'Commissioner Gordon' who actually HAS a 'batphone' direct line to the One True God of this world in the midst of crisis situations!]
Obviously God hears the prayers of all people. But we know from reading the Bible that God seemingly responds more favorably to those He is in an actual relationship with...versus examples like Pharisaical religious legalists whom Jesus said were of their father, the devil (John 8).
Many, including Mormon leaders, claim that if we start considering the faith of a candidate, that it might "weaken the foundation" of our country.
You mean religionists might actually prefer having a POTUS in the White House who actually knows the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Why, how shocking!
Me? (I'm voting for Virgil Goode of the Constitution Party)
And yet he lives a more moral life than the majority of people who claim to know the true God.
Besides, obama knows of no God but Marx. I suppose you are fine with that.
If religion is to be the determinant then the Mormon is superior to the Moslem. The Moslem wills our death or enslavement. The Mormon doesn’t.
Yes, we know, we've endured your threads long enough.
Sir, I am calling you out as a religious bigot - one who does not belong here. This is still America - where one can believe in any whacked out belief he or she wants to. I personally have sympathy for Mormons, but no hatred as you do.
This Spring, I posted 11 FR threads (posted by FREEPERs 2008-2012) linking Obama to Islam...see
2008-2012 FREEPER threads linking Obama with Islam
Yet I still don't know of FREEPERs putting forth actual evidence than Obama is a current Muslim...
Are there more FREEPERs who have the integrity who would actually back up this oft-claimed statement???
I don't want Obama or Romney; and won't lift my finger to vote for either.
It seems like a desperate attempt to self-justify many voters why they want to prop up Mormonism...to bring Islam into the picture.
*************************
Oh, and btw...from all those who claim, "Leave religion out of it." Why is it I never see you scold all the thousands of FREEPER posts that bring Obama's alleged Islam into the picture? Is it because of religious hypocrisy being exercised?
+1
How many terrorist are Mormons?
Btw, I really don't give a flip what you think or what you do!!!!!
Sure, by your definition, you "hate"...you "hate" my threads...by your definition you then "hate" me...
If "bigotry" is includes intolerance of religious expressions -- and if you think I am intolerance of Mormonism's religious expressions...and if to be intolerant of religious expressions is such a "horrid" thing...why are then "bigoted" toward my religious expressions?
Is there a special "license" we get somewhere ... a place that allows you to be intolerant of my religious views?
Why are you so "bigoted" vs. ex-Mormons & those who critique Mormonism if "intolerance" is so "anathema" to you?
Where's your consistency?
I really wonder about this. Jesus said it was fine to render unto Caesar what he was due. He clearly separated the Kingdom of God and earthly kingdoms into two separate realms.
We cannot be perfect in this world. To claim we are able to judge perfectly would be to set ourselves above God. I am positive that you give your time, talent, and treasure to false gods and to those who support them. Do you purchase food, clothing, shelter, and entertainment? You are not able to do otherwise in this fallen world.
The religious nutters who post this garbage are destroying what used to be a good forum.
But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 17, 1782
It doesn't matter if that 'neighbor' is on Slum Road or Pennsylvania Avenue, what religion someone follows falls within their right of conscience, IMHO.
See post #66...do us all a favor and prove Obama IS a Muslim...that undertaking by FREEPERs would actually be helpful...
You can "start" with the threads I pulled together & linked at the link in post #66...but FREEPERs are going to need to go MUCH further to prove that Obama is an actual CURRENT Muslim.
Have you read the Constitution??? If so I would like to know what part that says only a Christian can be President??
“I’d rather have the Mormon than the Moron”
PERFECT!!!! Great coinage. Spread that phrase around.
As one who has vociferously joined into past anti MormomISM threads allow me to offer my $.02.
I hold strongly to the belief that Mormonism is a cult hatched in the pits of hell. HOWEVER, I more strongly believe that Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is greater than he who currently influences this present world. Are we not told to pray for our leaders? Is God not still in control? Even with the present occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, God is still in control.
I will vote for Romney, not because I agree with his false religious beliefs, but rather his political beliefs, which even though they might not comport totally with my conservative beliefs, are vastly superior to the evil communistic view AND policies of Obama.
We will not turn the country around with even 8 years of Romney, but at least we can put on a little break pressure to bide us some time. A vote NOT for Romney IS a vote for Obama.
“Do we want as president a man who worships a false god?”
Are you blind???
We already have a pResident who worships a false god!! And he’s an evil marxist, anti-American fascist.
Where have you been?
You know, Obama's been pouring his ad $ into nine swing states.
I can actually respect FREEPERs & other conservatives in those genuine swing states who say -- that out of pragmatism -- they are so anti-Obama they are going to vote accordingly.
That makes perfect sense.
What doesn't make perfect is why these FREEPER "pragmatists" haven't been calling for conservatives in the 15 blue states/voting areas for Virgil Goode or FREEPER Tom Hoefling.
Romney isn't going to win those states (from that SAME "pragmatic" angle you're talking about)...(There's no state-by-state "silver medal" awarded in POTUS races)
I'm talking about the Left Coast (Hawaii, WA, OR, CA). I'm talking about NJ-NY. I'm talking about the D.C.-Maryland-DE area...Illinois...I'm talking about New England (except perhaps New Hampshire).
Now I'm not expecting pragmatists like yourself to tell conservatives (beyond FR) in clear red states to vote third party.
Still, if 100% of just FREEPERs in red states gave their votes to Goode/Hoefling, guess what? Romney would still EASILY win every single one of those red states!
What does this mean? The pragmatists like yourself should have been concentrating on telling the voters in the 9 or so swing states to vote Romney...WHILE telling FREEPERs in the other 41 states + D.C. to vote third party -- for "principle" reasons...At the very least, they should have for the past three months been telling all the blue-state voters to ABOAR ("Anybody But Obama And Romney)...
But, no...you alleged "pragmatists" haven't been very consistently "pragmatic" in realizing that a POTUS race is 51 mini-races decided state-by-state...You have tossed conservative principles to the wind even in those 15 blue voting areas.
Because these are posts not simply exposing Mormonism's false religious beliefs. I would have no problem with that. I agree that Mormonism is a false, heretical, made-up religion.
But these are posts intended for a political purpose: to attack a candidate for political office because of his religious beliefs, when there is no evidence that his religion has interfered in the past or would interfere in the future with his carrying out of the duties of political office.
[Well, you are a preacher...perhaps you've seen that "eyes-glazing-over" look many a time during your sermons? (I would hope that look is cropping up among less more recently of late, at least)...and therefore, you must be quite an authority with what you say then...yet...that hasn't stopped you from preaching now, has it??? Have you gone to strictly media presentations or powerpoints during sermon-time???]
He has also shown himself to have a soft spot for Islamic rule.
Romney is no worse in this regard that the current OCCUPIER in Washington.
I’d rather have a Mormon for president than the Islamist we have now.
Folks ... If the original poster matters to anybody
This woman is excessively obssessed with Mormon Hatred ... has been for years.
She can and regularly does turn a story of a dog crossing a street in Utah into and seething anti-mormon rant.
Although she claims to be a Christian, she has none of Christs virtue or comandment to love your enemies; consequently, Christ’s teachings have been lost on her.
Wow! I didn't know they thru discernment out the window as a key element THE leader of the Free world?
So, you're telling us that a guy could be as gullible to deception as possible...and it just plays no intersection with the White House dude's character???
Or a guy can show THE most arrogance in the world...declare himself a "god-in-embryo"...and hey, you "high-five" him for it??? [For Lds teachings that temple Lds ARE "gods-in-embryo," see post #57]
All as you somehow disregard that as a character flaw?
So millions of us conservatives that critique away Obama's ties to Rev. Jeremiah Wright...and yet you haven't responded to any of those thousands of posts that "Religion is no part of that job..."???? Why not? Religious hypocrisy being exercised?
How many thousands of times have FREEPERs referenced Obama's supposed current "Muslim" status on threads -- including this one??? I noticed you didn't rush in to remind them that Obama's "religion" (whatever that may be) has "no part of that job."
I hate to say it...but too many FREEPERs have become some of the worst religious hypocrites I've seen in how they apply their convictions...
(Why how “tolerant” and “winsome” of you toward the 9% of voters who are either undecided or plan on voting 3rd-party)
“Oh, give it up, will you?”
You can’t win here pastor. Their eyes are shut and they are bearing false witness in their prideful evangelical zeal. These folks will just keep posting un-american, cut-and-paste screeds until you either explode or become exhausted. Better to have a conversation.
To remind the thread of the principle in play, here is a clear statement of the Founder’s intent from article 6, paragraph 3 of the U.S. Constitution:
“The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Where did you get your education in logics? Ask for your money back.
(You mean like my freedom to religiously express my convictions...or do you draw careful lines around "freedom of religion" -- and seek to appoint yourself as some "policeman" of that?)
That's always what is so self-refutingly "funny": Some posters will point to "freedom of religion" as an attempt to make Mormonism & cults "teflon-proof" of critique...all as they religiously critique religious expressions of others for not keeping their religious critiques to themselves!
:) That's hilarious! (Sorry...but you can't have it both ways)
But these are posts intended for a political purpose: to attack a candidate for political office because of his religious beliefs, when there is no evidence that his religion has interfered in the past or would interfere in the future with his carrying out of the duties of political office.
---------------------------------------------
It's worse than that, nearly every post for the last year has been a virulent attack on Mormonism. If there was some crime committed by anyone even associated with the LDS church or by a student or graduate from BYU, he's been on top of it just to let us know how horrible a religion it must be if it's adherents make mistakes in their lives.
It's a rather pathetic grab for attention. He states over and over again the flaws of Mormonism yet there are no topics he's posted that allows those on this forum to view his own beliefs and the flaws in those.
But the next time a member of the LDS church is caught speeding I'm sure he'll be the first to let us know.
I see your point.
(Yeah, I know, by that "nothing's out of bounds" statement, you could fathom voting for a Satanist if the Satanist had an (R) next to his name...since Dems always manage to be more liberal than whoever the (R) is...)
That's what'll be "funny" if/when Obama loses in 2012. He'll have the 'proper' RINOized credentials -- being a socialist healthcare pioneer like Romney, for example, to switch parties in 2020. Obama could run as an (R) in 2020...and we'll know that the Dems WILL always run somebody to the left of the (R) guy...
...Then all of you "ABO" pragmatists will become "ABD" -- Anybody but the Dem ... and that would then = endorsing Obama in 2020...and chewing people out verbally who fail to fall into the Obama (R) 2020 bandwagon...
You pragmatic utilitarian political relativists drive those who don't love quicksand nuts!
I’m going to try to say this as nicely as I can. F*ck off a$$hole!
And the god of the current Marxist in chief is not a false god???
all the thousands of FREEPER posts that bring Obama’s alleged Islam into the picture?/
***********
Alleged Islam? Hmmmm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw
He said “his muslim faith”. Stefanopolous had to correct him!
Religious zealots, of any kind, make me want to puke.
Religious bigotry is never pretty and always harmful.
I am not Mormon and I do not defend Mormonism, and I am not a crazy zealot and I do not support the nonsense of crazy zealots.
Be careful with such posts like this now...ya might have a poster -- like AnotherUnixGeek -- properly scold you for saying the above...something like:
Religion is no part of that job...The religion of a president is irrelevant... [AnotherUnixGeek, post #36]
(Yeah, like He**'s going to freeze over during its current heat wave)
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