Posted on 08/11/2012 10:06:41 AM PDT by Colofornian
Mormonism plan of salvation:
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=45af9daac5d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
God’s plan of Salvation:
Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me.” (John 14:6)
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” (Romans 10:9)
Of course there are some really nice Mormons, this thread is about Mormonism.
just look at some of these clips from some of the Mormon movies - ovioulsy - they don’t believe in “OUR” Savior...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAuaSpJ7zGs&feature=relmfu
obviously, they are ‘Godless’ - thus sayeth Colofornian - so it must be so.
OR, here’s an idea - why not go to the source. They have everything online - even all the speakers in all their conferences. The have a huge website. They have a TV channel. There’s lots of YouTube clips.
Listen/read for yourself. Just maybe your mind is every bit as good as Colofornians?
Study them yourself and ask “Will a person like this be better than what we have now?
Please show us the post where someone has said Mormons are godless, in fact if you knew anything about Mormonism and it appears you may not, Mormonism teaches MANY gods.
In this post when you refer to Jesus are you speaking of the lds jesus or the Biblical Jesus?
They are not the same.
Just like your useless drivel that you post, you put up a straw man here as well. I spoke of OUR survival. Do you have something against OUR prosperity as well? It would not surprise me. Your envy bubbles brightly in a beady-eyed fashion when you actually bother to post something original. You insufferable boor.
Is it important to now what Romney was taught to beleive - and believes still...and grew up to teach others as a leader in the church? I don’t know. We’re not voting for the Bishop of the United States.
But we can get an insite into what these ‘Godless” people believe - out of their own mouths they are known?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpFhS0dAduc&feature=relmfu
Maybe you Freepers are as smart as Colofornian? Maybe you can make up your own minds.
What is posted is from the leaders mouths, what I find curious is that apparently or it appears that, you are unwilling to accept their (lds leaders) own words.
Many people who post to expose Mormonism are former Mormons, or have family trapped in Mormonism, we know the words of the leaders, we know the experiences of Mormonism - simply put we know Mormonism.
Mitt Romney is as high in the Mormon cooperation as one can go without being one of the twelve.
His family goes back to the foundation of Mormonism.
Romney has been groomed for this moment in time.
My Mormon family members believe him to be the fulfillment of prophesy.
(And I s'pose your "caring" in 2007-2008 somehow kept Obama from winning then, eh?)
...this is a hopeless case likely driven by the nearness of the Mayan calendar ending
And when the Mayan calendar proves its false prophesy, what then?
Why THEN it'd be much closer to a guy who might be in the White House for the next four years -- Mitt Romney -- a guy with fairly close linkages to a LOT of false prophecies...and false prophets [see, for example, The Prophecies of Joseph Smith...]
Now...just imagine...having such a Wacky belief guy in the WH...with EVERY liberal media outlet for four LONG years, day in, drip...drip...drip...highlighting the beliefs of the "wacky one" -- the one "brand" who Republicans decided to entrust their eternal reputation with...
Ah...I can see it now...Letterman monologues...Kimmel monologues...SNL skits...viral Youtubes...etc.
Think about that: A Romney presidency for four years on top of what we've already gone thru (2007 & part of 2008; plus 2011-2012)...almost six years of Mormonism this, and Mormonism that...And then, if, miraculously, Romney won re-election in 2016...you could read, hear about Mormonism DAILY for the next 8+ years...
And then the Mormon church, thinking this is THEIR "Mormon moment" opportunity to expend a $1Billion in marketing & advertising -- their "point of arrival" -- will make EVERYTHING all about Mormonism, anyway!!!
And the PR & Marketing will draw responses from Mormonism's opponents on the right, and the left.
(And all this...whether a FREEPER or two or three would e'er e'en post anything the MSM ever did on Mormonism again)
Imagine that!
Enjoy your daily Mormon percolated coffee...courtesy of the MSM...
...drip, drip, drip...
...for the next 4-8+ years! ...
It won't be "waterboarding"...it'll be "Mormon coffee"boarding!!!!
The Dems & MSM will successfully re-brand the GoP as the wacky voters who put the wacky guy in the wacky White House!!!
(Agrarianlady, then ask why Mormons tithe to re-produce these following Lds "scriptures" in the millions...including translating them into hundreds of languages)
Snapshot of Joseph Smith’s Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects |
Mormon Source[Note: Most of these are Mormon ‘scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain] |
| “...which of all the sects was right… must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG… those professors were ALL CORRUPT…” | Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price |
| ...“which of all the sects was right…ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…” | Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price |
| Mormon church the only ‘Christ-sanctioned’ church on earth: “…the foundation of this [Mormon] church…the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth” [Obvious ‘scorched earth’ implication: All other churches are false and dead] | Lds “scripture” Doctrines & Covenants 1:30 |
| Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." | Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not “scripture” – but still publicly spoken by the Mormon ‘living prophet’ and published by a later Mormon ‘living prophet,’ Joseph Fielding Smith – via a publisher owned by the Mormon church – Deseret News Press, 1938] |
| “In 1952…the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world…It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized…[four topics, one of them being]…THE APOSTASY and Restoration…” [This makes it 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, now numbering 55,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as “apostates” (100% AWOL)] | Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996 |
(Or, Agrarianlady, ask Maine-iac7 to show us the "love" expressed by Lds leaders toward Christians in the quotes in this article:
If Mormonism is 'anti-Christian,' then how can it be considered 'Christian?')
If you were auditioning for godhood, you'd try to be on your best behavior, too.
Doesn't stop Utah from its extremely high rate of affinity fraud, sexual abuse, depression, & suicide...(Let me know if you want the details on any of these)
D&C 29:21:
"And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign."
D&C 88:94:
"And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it."
The old church is the mother, and the protestants are the lewd daughters.
There is none in all christendom that doeth good; no, not one.'
- Apostle John Taylor, Times and Seasons, Vol.6, No.1, p.811
Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the Lord denounces... as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness.
Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255
1 Nephi 14:17:
And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.
----- Yea, I can see how you would think that Mormonism does not vilify any other religion, they just vilify Christianity.
You say to jessduntno: “My question was: do we want a man as president who worships a false god?
Your question to me does not answer my question.
“
The problem here is, perhaps, that you presuppose that you are the ultimate arbitor of who believes in what and whose God ia a flse “God.”
Is it possible tha you are not as omnipitant as you believe? You state that Mormons believe in a ‘false God’ and presume that no one should question your statement. Doesn that strike you as a bit presumptuos? (Rhetoric - of course you couldn’t be wrong. You state it as fact, know a your belief.)
Myself, I think most Freepers have minds capable of deciding for themselves and going to the source of the matter - and makeing their own judgments.
there’s certainly enough on to research. They aren’t secret about thier beliefs, like cults are. Lot’s of stuff on YouTube, their own web site with pages and pages and pages - their own TV channel. Maybe even listen to the leaders of the church as they speak at the quarterly conferences in SLC. That should be a pretty good measure of what they are about.
Here’s an example - this speaker speaking in the tabanacle full of Mormons, pretty much covers what the Mormons believe in. Maybe we, as Christians, can ask Jesus to let us percieve the truth - rather than accept YOUR ‘facts’ without question?
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/10/let-there-be-light?lang=eng&media=video
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/10/let-there-be-light?lang=eng&media=video
And you're telling me with a straight face...
...that if you believe in God in any way...and if you've heard a few tidbits about what He repeatedly said about idolatry in the Old Testament...
...that this God will just be pickled pink that "His people" endorsed a guy who claims to be the very competing rival of God ...a fellow "god" if you will...(see quotes in post #57 about what Lds leaders label temple Mormons to be)
You think God will be so "thrilled" about His people endorsing a rival "god" that He won't remove His protective hedge from this country???
So THE LIVING GOD will just sanction open idolatry in this country, eh? With no downside, huh?
You know, what's "funny" is...if Sarah Palin had announced in '08 that she was a "god in embryo"...
...we would have NEVER heard the end of it from the MSM...from the Dems...etc.
...but somehow when a man utters it...
...and it's been put under this "sacred cow" umbrella called "MORMONISM"...
...we now have more Lds sacred cow "converts" and apologists than the Mormon church has ever had...
...and most of them aren't even Mormon!
It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic!
Yes, FREEPERs, decide for yourselves...read the following quotes from Mormon leaders -- and decide for yourselves if the Mormon "god" is the REAL ultimate God or not:
(1) LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie wrote, "The Father is a glorified, perfected resurrected, exalted man who worked out his own salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg. 64).
As somebody once pointed out...Notice McConkie's use of the word "resurrected" and the phrase, "worked out his salvation." Only those who die can be resurrected, and only those who are lost need salvation.
Bottom-line here:
Mormon leaders have taught that Heavenly Father needed "salvation!" And, since death came due to sin (either your own, or in Jesus' case, someone else's), whose sin caused Heavenly Father to die, Mormons? Whose sin was around that prompted his death? His own?
Also, please note another aspect of this Lds "apostle's" claim: He said Heavenly Father is a "perfected...exalted man." Interesting. Why did He say "perfected" -- vs. "perfect? This Lds "apostle" claimed Heavenly Father needed a spiritual makeover and needed to be perfectED!!!
(I guess that shows you what kind of sinner-saved god Mormons REALLY embrace!!!)
(2) What other Lds general authority comment supports the notion that Lds worship a sinner-saved god?
Well, after B.H. Roberts, the next "deep theologian" to fill the ranks of Mormonism was Lds "apostle" James E. Talmage.
Here's how Talmage weighed in on this: "...but though the Son is glorified with the glory of the Father, you can't change the fact that He is the Son of that Father,
and that Father,
the Eternal Father,
the Father of Jesus Christ,
the Father of His spirit
and the Father of His body,
was once a Man,
and has progressed,
not by any favor but by the right of CONQUEST OVER SIN,
and over death,
to His present position of priesthood and power,
of Godship and Godliness,
as the Supreme Being whom we all profess to worship"
(James E. Talmage, Conference Reports, April 1915, p. 123).
So there ya go! Talmage says the Mormon god "progressed...to His present position of...Godship". He got the "godship" job! And how did he manage that? Well he won via a "Conquest over sin"!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and death)
Hmmm...the Mormon elohim was a sinner!!!! (says a prominent Lds "apostle" still repeatedly cited by the Mormon church and by Mormon leaders)
Per the Mormon Journal of Discourses: "God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we are, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point where He now is" (Lds "apostle" Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 1:123).
So. Mormon leaders have stated that Elohim (God the Father), as a mortal on some distant planet similar to Earth, went through the same struggles as present-day humans in order to obtain his Godhood. In the words of LDS Apostle Orson Hyde, "God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we are," HYDE is claiming GOD (our Heavenly Father) was mortal like we are. To be consistent, HYDE is claiming mortality for GOD, so it would have to include "a sinful nature".
Well, again, we know from history that mortality was provoked by things having to do with a tree. In the book of Genesis, it was rebellion (sin) by picking fruit from a forbidden tree. And for Jesus, it was donning a tree (the cross) to pay for the fruit of Adam & Eve's sin passed down throughout mankind. So sin was linked to mortality somehow -- either thru direct sin or indirectly taking on the sin of others.
So, again, if the Mormon elohim was mortal, why? Was it his sin -- or that of another?
Other Lds leaders even elaborated a bit beyond that: "The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church. How do you feel, knowing that God, through His own experience, 'knows all that we know regarding the toils [and] sufferings' of mortality?" (Brigham Young, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, p. 34, brackets in original)
So Brigham claimed the Mormon god knows all about the "toils & sufferings" of mortality from firsthand experience!!!
And another Lds "apostle," Orson Whitney, emphasized that "Mormonism teaches that God was once just like ourselves; that the eternal part of Him was enshrined in mortal flesh, subject to mortal ills and earthly pains and toils." (Orson F. Whitney, May 6, 1892, Collected Discourses 3:45)
So perhaps the "best" way for us to describe the Mormon god, per their "apostles," is to first ask Mormons to describe themselves, since Whitney says he "was once JUST LIKE OURSELVES!" That not only includes mortal flesh, but mortal ills. (And guess what prompted mortal ills?) That's right, sin.
(3) Finally, consider what two other Lds "apostles" claimed:
"God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degress of advancement" (John A. Witdsoe, Rational Theololgy, 1915, p. 61)
Wow!!!
And: "Gods, angels, and men are all of one species, one race, one great family, widely diffused among the planetary systems as colonies, kingdoms, nations, etc." (Parley P. Pratt, The Key to the Science of Theology, 1978, p. 21)
Parley P. Pratt, btw, is Mitt Romney's G-G grandfather! (And Romney says he is sticking to the "faith of his fathers!")
So...if ya wanna know the gods of Mitt Romney & his fellow Mormons...well...if you saw aliens from another planet, and one said they were humanoid just like us, and another said, "Yeah, I'm humanoid, too. But I'm also divine." Well, there's your Mormon master race! Aliens from heavens, Mormons all of them, some claiming to be man-made gods, and others claiming to be future man-made gods.
Thanks, but Mormons don’t drink coffee, so I doubt they’ll be providing me any time soon.
But I’ll stick with my call on the rapture.
So when is Xenu going to pick you up on his space ship Nibiru?
You are just so funny.
How is this going to help get rid of that person in the White House?
One more time: this thread and many like it from Colonic are not about exposing the ISM. This is using the religion forum to attack a political figure the thread poster hates. That you are unable to discern that is an interesting revelation as to whom the poster aims these hate screeds.
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