Posted on 08/02/2012 3:35:51 PM PDT by Colofornian
...Mike Huckabee...candidate for the Republican nomination—was being pressed by a reporter for the New York Times Magazine about the religion of his rival, Willard Mitt Romney, before the 2008 Iowa caucuses. The reporter prodded Huckabee with an all-important question...: Mormonism—cult or religion?
...The Times noted that he asked with an “innocent voice” the following question: “Don’t Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?”
...A spokeswoman for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said that while Mormons believe “all beings were created by God and are his spirit children,” Jesus Christ was the “only begotten in the flesh”; the “son of God”; and the “savior of mankind.”
SNIP
Theologically, the religion is almost uncategorizeable...They are best described not as polytheists but henotheists, because they seem to believe in more than one god but only worship one of them...Some of their temple-rituals hearken back to the mystery religions of the Roman empire...They reject the Trinity as firmly as they reject predestination.
...Mormons believe the church fell apart very early on, right around the end of the first century. They believe the church was reestablished by divine intervention through the prophecies and presence of Smith...
...it is drilled into them that their actions here on this earth really will affect their heavenly rewards hereafter. Speculation about what form those rewards might take is a perennial subject of mockery by critics of Mormonism. (“They think they’ll become gods! They’ll inherit their own planets!”)...
ROMNEY CAN BE protean and pragmatic when it comes to business and politics, but when the subject is Mormonism, he really believes the stuff...He has baptized the dead by proxy, but not “recently.” Mitt has tithed millions of dollars to the LDS church and spent years of his life volunteering as a missionary, bishop, and stake president.
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...
So...does Jesus' compliment of the Pharisees in Matthew 5:20...is that a parallel of sorts here? Does that preclude Jesus from ever having uttered the following??? Jesus also complimented at one point the Pharisees.
Matt. 15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Matt. 16:12: ...guard against the yeast...against the TEACHING of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Luke 11:52: ... you have taken away the key to knowledge.
John 8:44,47: You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies…The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
Matthew 23:2-4: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
Mark 7:6-8,13: He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ 8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” …13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
Matthew 23:2-7, 13-34 : 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
Kansas58, are you trying to outnice Jesus????
You told the truth as you perceive it.
I simply have a value set I WILL DIE FOR.
And in that my perception of what you are using this medium for is just not right.
Think of it not as me defending the Mormons. Think of it as me defending you.
The VATICAN IS A CITY STATE.
Now make a crack about bizness.
Who is telling Mitt what religion he can can't belong to??? (I haven't heard of any movement saying Mitt can't practice Mormonism)
Voters can vote using any freakish criteria they want to!
Ya know, islandlad...I once read an Lds news release that said: The framers of our constitution included a provision that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States” (Article VI). That constitutional principle forbids a religious test as a legal requirement...
This release was part of a discussion by Lds "apostle" Dallin Oaks.
I'm afraid you -- like Mr. Oaks...misconstrues candidacy eligibility issues.
All the constitution says is that an eligible candidate cannot be kept from running on religious test grounds.
Ya know, even Mr. Oaks recognized how ludicrous some of his rhetoric was sounding and needed to offset it a bit with a qualifier: "...but it of course leaves citizens free to cast their votes on the basis of any preference they choose."
So...here's a Constitutional "primer" for you so that you don't keep exporting confusion to others:
Point 1- RELIGION: Religion IS NOT a qualification or disqualification for public office; but it's certainly one quality of voter discernment among many others...namely, voting record, present position statements & rampant inconsistency of past position statements, social issues' stances, character, viability, scandal-free past, etc. Article VI, section 3 of the Constitution is aimed at the candidate (must be of a certain age and must have resided in our country for a certain number of years) and the government so that religion does not become a disqualification to keep somebody otherwise eligible for running for public office. Article VI, section 3, is not aimed at the voter. Otherwise, voters would have to 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates.
POINT 2 - ELIGIBILITY: Newsflash!! Every person on the ballot, & even most write-in candidates, have proper "qualifications" to not be excluded from office consideration (based upon religious grounds). Of course, millions of us have the "qualifications" to be considered a potential POTUS & shouldn't be excluded outright from a ballot because of the religion we hold! Nobody has a "Religious Ineligibility" tattoo on their forehead!
POINT 3- BOTTOM LINE: You don't, FSO, really want to join Lds "apostles" in their confusion by emphasizing words similar to "qualifications" (language within the Constitution) with words like "qualities." (language that’s NOT in the Constitution)...do you?
I focus on what voters base their votes on in the "real world": Qualities
Otherwise, Article VI says absolutely...
...nothing...
....nada...
...zero...
...about how voters must weigh--or not weigh--the "qualities" of a candidate...
Nowhere does Article VI say that voters MUST 100% disregard character, beliefs, other-dimensionly commitments, and spiritual discernment in weighing candidates!
"Qualifications" have to do with what gets a man on a ballot. "Qualities" has to do with who gets elected.
(Even 94-95% of Mormons -- most voting upon the fellow personal "qualities" of a candidate like Romney -- can tell you that!)
Btw, islandlad, why aren't you lecturing Lds voters if anywhere from 88% to 95% of Mormons will only vote for a Mormon?
(For some reason, the "Article 6 Religious Test" lecture tour never seems to hit Utah, Nevada, Southwest Wyoming or Southern Idaho)
Very well.
Your expertise is evident, and my details were in error.
However? My point stands: Jesus was NOT preaching to Samaritans when he brought up the Good Samaritan.
His POINT, then, was HUMILITY! (As well as Charity)
With the fullest of respect to all, I think if R knelt down and prayed to a toilet (or, yes, multiple toilets), he’d still be a lot better for America than the alternative.
Anybody but Obama.
Thank you, MissesBush for your civil response. This is indeed a good question, especially from an Lds perspective.
If you want, I can cite in another post several verses from the Lds standard works -- including the D&C...see, for example, D&C 93:9-10 -- which cites Jesus as being the "Creator." [One key difference in how Lds use this term -- vs. Christians -- is that Lds believe that Jesus and the Father "organized" things into existence from eternal matter; vs. Christians who cite the book of Hebrews and say that God/Jesus created all "out of nothing" (ex nihilo)].
The key verses I would point you to re: your question is from the apostle Paul to the Colossians: 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him ALL things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether THRONES OR POWERS OR RULERS OR AUTHORITIES; ALL things have been created THROUGH HIM and for him... (Col. 1)
We know that Paul is including even the fallen angels in Col. 1:16 -- because he references them in the same way in Eph. 6: 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Jesus created Lucifer, MissesBush. He is Lucifer's creator -- not simply a fellow "creature" to Lucifer as Mormons teach.
Now how do we know that Mormon leaders have taught Jesus to be a "creature" (as well as an organizer)???
The 'Mormon' Jesus: "Christ is a saved being” (lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257)
“Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a saved being...” (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234)
Please also see...
* McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation”)
* McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72]
I'm sorry, but the real Christ did not need to "work out His own salvation" as Lds apostles teach; in fact, He is THE Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42).
(That's why I'm voting for Virgil Goode...he, too, qualifies under the umbrella of "anybody" ... and isn't a pro-abort liberal big-govt socialist healthcare pioneer like Mitt...)
Or were you just using "ABO" like most FREEPERs do -- euphemistically...meaning it's not really "anybody" but Obama...ONLY Romney...???
(And don't tell me there's ONLY two choices...'cause, frankly, I can rattle off 15 states in which Romney HAS NO choice -- as of this hour -- of winning...because of the liberal nature of those states...plus I can name you 23 OTHER states in which if 100% of Freepers voted for Virgil Goode, Obama STiLL wouldn't win those states...hence...only the voters in genuine swing states are more "locked in" to Romney)
(That's why I'm voting for Virgil Goode...he, too, qualifies under the umbrella of "anybody" ... and isn't a pro-abort liberal big-govt socialist healthcare pioneer like Mitt...)
Or were you just using "ABO" like most FREEPERs do -- euphemistically...meaning it's not really "anybody" but Obama...ONLY Romney...???
(And don't tell me there's ONLY two choices...'cause, frankly, I can rattle off 15 states in which Romney HAS NO chance -- as of this hour -- of winning...because of the liberal nature of those states...plus I can name you 23 OTHER states in which if 100% of Freepers voted for Virgil Goode, Obama STiLL wouldn't win those states...hence...only the voters in genuine swing states are more "locked in" to Romney)
At least Romney knows what the capital of Israel is.
(you say that re: somebody who 100% seriously thinks that he himself was "spirit born" on a planet near a sun-like "Kolob?")
I guess Mitt might be able to also tell us what the capital is of that planet near Kolob, eh?
placemarker
........As a Catholic, you’re not now becoming a Mormon apologist, are you ?
When one isn’t grounded in TRUTH, they will fall for anything ‘man’ says or does.
Six Vatican Ambassadors Start Catholics for Romney Outreach
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2913257/posts
So you are gonna vote for the Muslim over the Mormon, then? Staying home is half a vote.
Does he really or needed to be told by his staff? He also likes to fire people and doesn’t care about the poor.
As a political conservative and Bible-believing Christian, I can’t vote for the cultist either.
Against the World - Why I Will Never Vote for Mitt Romney
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlGGTMJ2Z64&feature=plcp
Against the World - Mormonism Is a Cult
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCluQjgF3RQ&feature=plcp
Not staying home...voting for Virgil Goode...
It is as simple as this.
I am not going to cast a MY vote for any of the candidates for POTUS.
None of them espouse what I think our “leader” should be.
I will put the pressure on my local elections.
Mitt Romney is a supervova compared to Obamas black hole.
But I will not vote for either. Or any of the rest.
If I want sunshine I GO OUTSIDE AND LOOK UP.
IF I NEED TO TALK TO GOD I GET DOWN ON MY KNEES.
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