Posted on 07/26/2012 11:34:14 AM PDT by Teófilo
The leaders wanted to be rid of Jesus, but the masses turned on Him also. Remember, they had a chance to grant him the Passover pardon, and the crowd picked the Barrabas instead.
Jesus never said read the bible(old/new) or talmud.. or any other lore..
What he said was if you want to know something/anything go to the Holy Spirit..
Since most people couldn’t read anyway... and there were few if any bibles or even talmuds available..
The call to read the bible is almost totally a modern contrivance.. (since the printing press)
It appears that most/many christians use the Holy Spirit as a doofus.. in Jesus place.. i.e. janitor...goofer..
Who can blame them thats all they mostly have “seen” and “know”..
Well its an idea............ as worthy as any other...
NT Scripture is, of course, post Christ's fleshly presence on Earth. Christ did enjoin us to keep the Commandments, among other instructions, did caution us not to murmur at the ways of Providence, and did make frequent reference to prophecies in the OT.
Do you preach the Gospel to your Jewish friends?
If so don’t expect to convert them.
Preaching/witnessing to them probably won’t go over well.
This is what burns my britches.
To put it mildly.
So, we gentiles are in a bind. On the one hand, the Jews are "enemies of the gospel", and yet their enmity was the price of gentile salvation. Christians must be wary of attacks on the gospel, yet they must love the attacker because without the attacks we wouldn't have been saved.
Paul also makes it clear that this is a great "mystery." I think that he's saying here, in effect, "Nobody is more surprised by the Jewish rejection of Christ as me, Paul. But I've seen after all these years that their rejection is a hidden part of God's plan of salvation for you gentiles. So be glad that Jews have rejected Christ, and while taking care to keep the faith pure, love the Jews as the apple of God's eye." Not an easy thing, but I think it's what Paul was saying all along.
I appreciate your honest reply. But you should have provided the punishment the Torah demanded for such blasphemy :
5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known,
7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other),
8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them.
9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
And according to Maimonides in his “Epistle to Yemen” that’s exactly what the Sages did :
The first one to have adopted this plan was Jesus the Nazarene, may his bones be ground to dust. He was a Jew because his mother was a Jewess although his father was a Gentile. For in accordance with the principles of our law, a child born of a Jewess and a Gentile, or of a Jewess and a slave, is legitimate. (Yebamot 45a). Jesus is only figuratively termed an illegitimate child. He impelled people to believe that he was a prophet sent by God to clarify perplexities in the Torah, and that he was the Messiah that was predicted by each and every seer. He interpreted the Torah and its precepts in such a fashion as to lead to their total annulment, to the abolition of all its commandments and to the violation of its prohibitions. The sages, of blessed memory, having become aware of his plans before his reputation spread among our people, meted out fitting punishment to him.
Notice how the Romans aren’t even mentioned at all.
And as an added bonus what the Sages did to Saul aka Paul :
Quite some time after, a religion2 appeared the origin of which is traced to him by the descendants of Esau, albeit it was not the intention of this person to establish a new faith. For he was innocuous to Israel as neither individual nor groups were unsettled in their beliefs because of him, since his inconsistencies were so transparent to every one. Finally he was overpowered and put a stop to by us when he fell into our hands, and his fate is well known.
My $0.02. Jesus was preaching to Jews when he talked about the Law remaining. But the NT releases gentile Christians from the Law. This happens in Acts of the Apostles at the Council of Jerusalem. St. James basically says that gentile converts to Christ need only keep the Law of Noah. So, I see no contradiction there.
I am reminded of Jesus’ words, I think about Luke 20, “you’ll not see me again until you say ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
[ Christ did enjoin us to keep the Commandments, among other instructions, did caution us not to murmur at the ways of Providence, and did make frequent reference to prophecies in the OT. ]
True he did mention the commandments which are common sense anyway.. and other scripture too.. Which had to be done to even relate to the people he was relating too.. meaning rabbi’s and jewish officials.. The “people” mostly didn’t know scripture like the Rabbi’s did anyway.. Having never read scripture.. Especially Talmudic teachings..
Jesus himself was “the Word”.. not what he said but what he did.. As he recounted to John the Baptist.. What am I doing proves Who I am, he said to John.. not what am I saying..
The Holy Spirit is real then and today or he/it is not..
Same thing exists now... same situation..
The Holy Spirit is indeed an “invisible friend” or he is Not..
Many bible worshipers today.. They may deny it but it is true..
Much easier to worship the bible than deal with an “invisible friend”, which could get you called names..
I have an “invisible friend”............ and YOU?..
Second childhood?..... LoL!.... Lets hope!?...
There are fanciful renditions of Jesus in the Talmud, but what does it really say?
http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/jesusnarr.html
Laughable.
So Maimonides, Noahide.com (http://noahide.com/yeshu.htm), and the translators of the Soncino Talmud were wrong but “Gil Student” is right?
Thanks but no thanks. I’ll stick with Maimonides and the translators of the Soncino Talmud.
Torah is the first pages of the Gospel.
Most of the facets of Christ’s life have been found ELS coded within Torah.
>> “Jesus was preaching to Jews when he talked about the Law remaining” <<
.
True, and Paul explains the mechanics of that in detail in his epistle to the Romans. Judah had to be blinded temporarily in order to preserve the knowledge of Christ’s feasts for the end time generations.
He also speaks of it cryptically with the Thessalonians.
Maimonides offered no citations. There is no way to know which passage Maimonides was considering, or even if he was referring to the Talmud stories at all. Many private histories remained more or less within families, and we know of such cases in Rambam’s family.
The (incomplete and heavily edited) Soncino Talmud is for neophytes and popularizers.
Amen to that.
Not one dot of the law will go away because they expose our real nature-our sinfulness. And we may think that if we run back and try to be more obedient God will welcome us back. But this view fails to understand the holiness of God. The wages of sin is death. The rich young ruler walked away sorrowful because he understood that if he broke just one command, one time, then he has transgressed all of the law. He was sentence to death. It's as if he took that fruit off the tree himself.
But as the wise woman from Tekoa stated:
God's plan to solve our failing to meet His law is through His grace in our Lord Jesus. He devised that through His Son we could be brought into a relationship with Him. This is the good news of the Gospel, that Christ fulfilled the law so that we could be brought into a relationship with God and willingly took our death sentence by dying in our place so we could live with Him forever. All we have to do is recognize how we do not keep the Law and ask Him to cover our sins.
The Law of God is perfect and illustrates God's love for us. It shows our failure to do the right and good things. The Gospel is God's plan for our failures. We wouldn't know the Good News (the Gospel) if we didn't understand the Law and how we fail.
Wow, so Maimonides, the Noahide.com site (which offers citations by the way), and the Soncino Talmud (which has footnotes referring to jesus) are dead wrong, but “Gil Student” is right?
Well then what about the Jewish Encyclopedia?
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8616-jesus-of-nazareth
They got it wrong too?
Now that’s a stretch. I am always amazed with the machination we humans go through to avoid obeying the simple instructions given to us by the Creator. “You may not eat from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” seems too easy... What’s our excuse?
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