Posted on 07/03/2012 9:31:36 AM PDT by TeĆ³filo
>> What really matters is that one follows Christs teachings
Where does one find these teachings?
>> He tells us to repent, believe, be baptised, eat of His body and Blood and endure to the end.
Among other things. Tell me — how do you know that? Did the Pope send you an email? :-) Or did you read about them “somewhere”?
I detect a pattern in 476, 477, and 478. You’re picking at isolated nits but ignoring the bulk, and key point, of my post #437.
Are you ever going to answer the question I posed to you in #435?
How can you say that with a straight face???
The JW's created their own bible...
Why didn't you also mention that the muzlims hold to 'sola scripture'???
Dunno -- do you?
Good post.
Exactly my point, s s leads to radically different concepts on the fundamentals of Christian faith. It has led to Unitarians, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, 9-gods Benny Hinn, etc. etc.
yes, in the Bible
What does Jesus say saves us?
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. |
Jesus said it is not faith ALONE. We are saved by God's GRACE. Full-stop.
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- it's never faith ALONE. Note that
no one is denying that one MUST have faith to be saved by the freely given grace of salvation, however, it is not faith ALONE. As shown above, Jesus Himself said that
He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
[U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3
[H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)
So, do listen to the words of Jesus who said it is faith+ repentance+baptism+the Eucharist+endurance, not any of these in isolation. Of course, these don't "save us" per se, since it is Christ's sacrifice on the Cross that grants us our salvation that we can accept or reject
The problem happens when one takes one section of what Jesus (WHO is the Word of God) says in isolation.
No. And that is not Church teaching either -- Church teaching is that To these other Christian Churches the Catholic Church is bound in many ways: through reverence for God's word in the Scriptures; through the fact of baptism; through other sacraments which they recognize." -- now, if you were a person who reject God's grace, I would say your salvation is at risk, otherwise that is between you and God
if you hold to the tenets in the Nicene creed, I hold you as a brother who holds to same basic fundamental beliefs as I do. If not, then as a fellow child of God who has errors.
But not only would I not say you're unsaved JUST for not being Catholic, i would argue with any Catholic who says so.
Well, this Catholic wouldn't be, neither should any Catholic who knows Church teachings which are "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God.... and to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."...
"The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."
Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain,.., communion with the Catholic Church."
while I oppose the dogma of Calvinism, I am not going to be such a fool as to comment on the salvation of any one particular Calvinist unless he's on par with Charles Manson (and a Charles Manson who was Catholic or Churches of Christ or whatever is going to heck, imho)
You are not Moslems like one on this board, as you fully accept Christ as Lord, God and Savior. On that common point we can debate or even argue, but not fight.
>> Exactly my point, s s leads to radically different concepts on the fundamentals of Christian faith.
Because Scripture can be (and has been) twisted by men to justify inappropriate paths does not by any means that relying on it solely is a doctrinal error.
Nor does the fact that Scripture has been misused prove any sort of “cause and effect”, as you suggest when you say “s s leads”. The Holy Scripture itself DID NOT “lead” men to err. They freely choose to err.
Did not Satan twist scripture when he tempted Jesus? And did not the Christ USE SCRIPTURE to refute him?
>> if you hold to the tenets in the Nicene creed, I hold you as a brother who holds to same basic fundamental beliefs as I do. If not, then as a fellow child of God who has errors.
Excellent. I am happy to hear you say that.
>> So, do listen to the words of Jesus who said it is faith+ repentance+baptism+the Eucharist+endurance, not any of these in isolation.
Yes — or as our Pastor puts it, “Saved by grace through faith for a purpose”. THat purpose being to be “doers” of God’s commandments, thus outworking our faith as James teaches. “Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith BY my works.”
>> you fully accept Christ as Lord, God and Savior. On that common point we can debate or even argue, but not fight.
Good. I hope not to fight.
By the way, I find this discussion to be uplifting and challenging, thereby teaching me and strengthening my faith. I appreciate your thoughtful posts, and also those of Springfield Reformer. Actually, most of the posts on this thread are useful and thoughtful — but particularly you two.
Because Scripture can be (and has been) twisted by men to justify inappropriate paths does not by any means that relying on it solely is a doctrinal error. -- I disagree.
My point of view is that the hallmark of knowing what is the correct view is to note what our ancestors in spirit were taught. The basis of orthodoxy -- called prawosławny (or true words) is just that, that the Apostles were taught the right way to interpret inerrant scripture by Jesus Christ and this was handed down.
Theological matters are to be debated yes. We're humans and will debate on everything. But I cannot talk with some folk who would just call me damned for being a Catholic -- just as you can't talk to folks who say the same about you not being a Catholic. Such folks gain no understanding, forget about converts
exactly. With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.
Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit....Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification
But all the merit can't provide salvation. That comes from the one-time act that we celebrate and participate in during the Divine Liturgy, with our High Priest - Jesus Christ leading.
No, the problem comes when you run all the scriptures together to justify your religion and then end up with contradictions in the scriptures...
Your religion is forced to ignore much scripture because much of it destroys the theology your religion has constructed for itself...
If you or your religion can not reconcile ALL of the NT scripture, you can't legitimately claim any of it...And your religion can not reconcile all of the scripture...
We Christians consider the Bible as scripture, not the Koran. Whatever you want to consider, that's your choice
We Christians consider the Bible as scripture, not the Koran. Whatever you want to consider, that's your choice
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