Posted on 07/02/2012 6:30:14 AM PDT by Cronos
I want to thank Archbishop William E. Lori for reminding me once again why I'm an ex-Catholic ("Fight for freedom," June 27). With the so-called "Fortnight for Freedom," the church leadership is deliberately and cynically using a mixture of patriotism and religion in a blatant and manipulative attempt to influence the outcome of the upcoming elections.
I can't seem to recall any recent news about Catholic churches being bombed in the United States or attempts to bar American Catholics from attending mass. I do know that the Catholic Church has been using its "religious freedom" for decades to aid and abet child abusers, to recently attack nuns in the United States who are at the forefront of what used to be one of the church's primary missions to aid and comfort the poor and needy, and that the American church has over the past few decades formed an alliance with some of the most strident and politically active right-wing religious groups in the U.S. Archbishop Lori even received an award in May from a coalition of some of those groups.
I am proud to be an American, and I am a strong supporter of the Bill of Rights. I support freedom of religion, and I support freedom from religion. And, at this moment in time, I am also very proud and happy to be an ex-Catholic.
Sandy Covahey, Baltimore
(Excerpt) Read more at baltimoresun.com ...
That is what I think has been done here and unless something more precise comes along, yes, I can accept that all of these are names for Christ in his various roles given he was also referred as Emmanuel, the Word, etc.
So it would appear from Rev. 20:1-3 that this Abaddon/Apollyon were one and the same.
But perhaps you have better information and will offer your own view, yes? No? Who do you think these ones are?
By claiming it is directly from God, that automatically invalidates everything in it. That is the error. When somebody tells me that he is getting messages from God, I immediately think 'charlatan', 'scam artist', or 'insane'.
If you were going to pick one of the three, which one would you pick?
By claiming IT IS DIRECTLY FROM GOD, that AUTOMATICALLY INVALIDATES everything in it. That is the error. When somebody tells me that he is getting messages from God, I immediately think ‘charlatan’, ‘scam artist’, or ‘insane’.
If you were going to pick one of the three, which one would you pick?
~ ~ ~
Sorry, a BX rejection Mark, too scared to reply to the error in the message? Run from it, pretty obvious, so are the Protestants.
If the messages to the prophets Old and New Covenant were
their own words, what is their value? I wish to hear the
Truth repeated from God Himself. He does this, speaking the
Truth, revealed through the prophets, His chosen messengers.
“Exactly. Whereas the other passages are contextually clear in how they use a single verb to take us from a definite point in past time to a definite moment in the present, John 5:8 does the opposite, by using two fundamentally different verbs to send us back into the limitless past, well before Abraham acquired his limited being by birth, while simultaneously sending us into a limitless future, simply by pointing us to the timeless present. It is the paradoxical juxtaposition of eimi with genesthai that creates that tension, and it is genuinely unlike the other two passages for that reason.”
I’m sure Mssrs. Conrad and Robertson are fine scholars when it comes to the Greek language but when it comes to specualtive theological exegesis they wandered into personal opinions.
Quite simply two different verbs were used becuse two different things, birth, coming into existence and existence as such.
Ps. 90:2 use three phrases. The third is: “even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God.”
It’s a good English and preserves the sense of the verse so how else would it be translated?
If referring to ones self as ego eimi was equating themself with God then the blind man of John 9:9 was doing so.
“In any event, 1 Cor. 8:6 does nothing at all to eliminate the obvious, that Thomas addressed those words directly to Jesus, and they were received by Jesus as a declaration of belief in Him, with no differentiation made between Lord and God.”
Then some how Paul’s words at 1 Cor. must contradict the trinitarian definition of God as the Father is the “one God” and Jesus is called the “One Lord” even though both terms can be applied to others.
So what Thomas exclaimed is contradictory of Paul? That Lord and God were in fact the “one God”? Or was Thomas calling God the Father and God the Son one and the same?
Remembe Jesus called his Father, ‘My God and your God’.
“What about the “ye are gods” business from Psalm 82:6? Read it again. It’s not a denial, it’s a justification.
If a justification it was a justification for calling himself not God but Son of God.
You’re going to tell us “what this moral obligation of Jesus” is! Outstanding!
“In any event, 1 Cor. 8:6 does nothing at all to eliminate the obvious, that Thomas addressed those words directly to Jesus, and they were received by Jesus as a declaration of belief in Him, with no differentiation made between Lord and God. Which, as we have discussed before, is wrong for Jesus to let pass,By passing up that opportunity to redirect Thomas to worship if indeed he is mere creature, and not in fact God. only God the Father, he has confused countless generations into thinking it is OK to address Jesus as my Lord and my God.”
“.... Which, as we have discussed before, is wrong for Jesus to let pass,By passing up that opportunity to redirect Thomas to worship if indeed he is mere creature, and not in fact God....”
What Jesus’ moral obligations are and what is wrong for Jesus to respond to or not I would not have the ‘chutzpah’ to venture but I would remind you that angels spoke in the first person as though they were Jehovah and accepted being addressed as such and that was acceptable and accepted.
So I’ve never denied being a lot of things over the years because the aaccusers wouldn’t be swayed and those who knew me didn’t need to be. But it didn’t make any of it true.
“I stand by my analysis. Show me the verse where he said, unequivocally, “Hey guys, you got it wrong, I’m not actually God or even claiming to be God.” Maybe you have that verse in the NWT, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it was in there. But my Bible has no such thing.
I'm sure Mssrs. Conrad and Robertson are fine scholars when it comes to the Greek language but when it comes to speculative theological exegesis they wandered off into personal opinions.
Quite simply two different verbs were used because two different things, birth, coming into existence and existence as such were being spoken about.
Ps. 90:2 use three phrases. The third is: “even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God.”
It's a good English and preserves the sense of the verse so how else would it be translated?
If referring to ones self as ego eimi was equating them self with God then the blind man of John 9:9 was doing so.
“In any event, 1 Cor. 8:6 does nothing at all to eliminate the obvious, that Thomas addressed those words directly to Jesus, and they were received by Jesus as a declaration of belief in Him, with no differentiation made between Lord and God.”
Then some how Paul's words at 1 Cor. must contradict the trinitarian definition of God as the Father is the “one God” and Jesus is called the “One Lord” even though both terms can be applied to others.
So what Thomas exclaimed is contradictory of Paul? That Lord and God were in fact the “one God”? Or was Thomas calling God the Father and God the Son one and the same?
Remember Jesus called his Father, ‘My God and your God’.
“What about the “ye are gods” business from Psalm 82:6? Read it again. It’s not a denial, it’s a justification.”
If a justification it was a justification for calling himself not God but Son of God.
You're going to tell us “what this moral obligation of Jesus” is! Outstanding!
“In any event, 1 Cor. 8:6 does nothing at all to eliminate the obvious, that Thomas addressed those words directly to Jesus, and they were received by Jesus as a declaration of belief in Him, with no differentiation made between Lord and God. Which, as we have discussed before, is wrong for Jesus to let pass,By passing up that opportunity to redirect Thomas to worship if indeed he is mere creature, and not in fact God. only God the Father, he has confused countless generations into thinking it is OK to address Jesus as my Lord and my God.”
“.... Which, as we have discussed before, is wrong for Jesus to let pass,By passing up that opportunity to redirect Thomas to worship if indeed he is mere creature, and not in fact God....”
What Jesus’ moral obligations are and what is wrong for Jesus to respond to or not I would not have the ‘chutzpah’ to venture but I would remind you that angels spoke in the first person as though they were Jehovah and accepted being addressed as such and that was acceptable and accepted.
So I've never denied being a lot of things over the years because the accusers wouldn't be swayed and those who knew me didn't need to be. But it didn't make any of it true.
“I stand by my analysis. Show me the verse where he said, unequivocally, “Hey guys, you got it wrong, I’m not actually God or even claiming to be God.” Maybe you have that verse in the NWT, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it was in there. But my Bible has no such thing.”
To which I reply:
I stand by my analysis. Show me the verse where he said, unequivocally, “Hey guys, you got it right, I am actually God and I am claiming to be God.”
“Maybe you have that verse in the NWT, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it was in there. But my Bible has no such thing.”
If you don't know anything about the NWT perhaps you ought not comment on it. Just a thought.
If you don’t believe, pray for discernment before reading the words in current prophecy both Protestant and Catholic. The New Time, the Millennium and during most of the Great Tribulation, Christians will be of “one belief”, no more Protestantism, no more Orthodox, the Remnant is Roman Catholic. Listen to Catholics explain the faith. Read Catholic writing, the Catholic Bible http://www.drbo.org, the Catechism http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm and writings of the saints. Skip to front, past other misunderstandings and BELIEVE in Our Lord’s presence in the Holy Eucharist and you will make it through. There are going to be martyrs, all in God’s Will.
“Faith Alone” is a lie. Scripture states it and so does Jesus in current private revelation. The “altar call” may be a moment of conversion but it does not justify anyone and the Prosperity Gospel is false.
blessings,
+ + +
Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
James 2:24
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
Colossians 1:10
That you may walk worthy of God, in all things pleasing; being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God:
1 Corinthians 3:13
Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is.
1 Peter 1:17
And if you invoke as Father him who, without respect of persons, judgeth according to every one’s work: converse in fear during the time of your sojourning here.
message to Protestant Kevin Barrett
April 1, 2012
Kevin’s website: http://hearhisheart.wordpress.com/
Oh hear Me, My people. Why do you listen to the hirelings and false teachers and prophets? Did I not say in My word that not all that say to me ‘Lord’ ‘Lord’ shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, save those that DO the will of the Father who is in heaven? Then why do you still go about doing your own will and tell yourselves that you are My bride? My people, you have been lied to by the enemy of your soul. Seek Me in these things. Surely I will reveal My truth to you. I love you, My dear children, and it is My desire that each of you share My throne with Me. But unfortunately only a remnant shall overcome. For too many have listened to the lies told by the FALSE SHEPHERDS and prophets. They speak of how you each are already cleansed and adorned in righteousness simply by your BELIEF on My name. These are all lies, My people. For does not My word say that he who DOES righteousness is righteous? Yes, My people, you are made righteous by your faith in Me, but it is FULLFILLED BY YOUR OBEDIENCE to My voice. IT IS NOT IMPUTED TO YOU BY A ONE-TIME CONFESSION OF MY NAME. Oh, My people, you have been lied to. Read My word for yourselves. Why listen to those that fatten themselves by fleecing My sheep? I have not sent many of the shepherds that are out there. They have sent themselves for their own glory and their own profit. Oh, My people, did I not say in My word to judge them by their fruit? Then where is the fruit, My people? Oh, but those that have itching ears care not about the fruit. They want to be told all is well and that they shall PROSPER if they simply believe on My name and My promises. Lies, lies, lies, I tell you.
Listen, son, Jesus was in the Middle East, in Roman Judea, along with all the Apostles during His Incarnation. There were no Catholics in Rome during that time.
The five original sees are: Jerusalem, Alexandria, Constantinople, Antioch, and Rome. James was the bishop of the first church - Jerusalem as is well documented in Acts. The various Orthodox Churches are no less Catholic than the Latins (which include the Roman Catholic Church) have the Roman Rite, the Ambrosian Rite, the Mozarabic Rite, and variations of the Roman Rite such as the Anglican Use and the Tridentine extraordinary form of the Roman Rite under the bishop of Rome.
There are 22 Eastern Orthodox Churches which form the other 'lung' of the Catholic Church. I have no idea where you are getting your information and history from.
There was no Roman Catholic Church until Sts. Peter and Paul went to Rome and established it in the community of believers that had preceded them to Rome.
I am for you Mark, really, forgive me if I’ve hurt your feelings.
It's not about my feelings - it's about the truth.
Nope, prove that the messages are from God and I'll be all ears.
If the messages to the prophets Old and New Covenant were their own words, what is their value? I wish to hear the Truth repeated from God Himself. He does this, speaking the Truth, revealed through the prophets, His chosen messengers.
You're calling this twerp a prophet from God. Present his bona fides and we'll talk. Until then, your message and his no better than snake handling grifters. I don't care if many of the points align with the Catholic Church. It is is the claim that God speaks to him (next he'll be claiming that he visits Heaven and comforts Jesus) that invalidates anything that he has to say.
The very fact that you champion a charlatan causes me to cease putting any credence in your compositions.
No it didn’t. Jesus established one Church, the Roman Catholic Church.
“Listen, SON, Jesus was in the Middle East, in Roman Judea, along with all the Apostles during His Incarnation. There were no Catholics in Rome during that time.”
~ ~ ~
I asked you not to call me “son.” I don’t call you “old
man.” Be nice and not condescending. Incapable I see.
There is one faith, the Apostles believed in and confected the most Holy Eucharist. Our Lord named Peter leader of His Church, leader of the first followers of the faith. Peter was the first Pope. The faith is and always will be Roman Catholicism. The actual name came a few years later, St Ignatius was the one who first used the term Catholic.
blessings,
“You’re calling this twerp a prophet from God. Present his bona fides and we’ll talk. Until then, your message and his no better than snake handling grifters. I don’t care if many of the points align with the Catholic Church. It is is the claim that God speaks to him (next he’ll be claiming that he visits Heaven and comforts Jesus) that invalidates anything that he has to say.
The very fact that you champion a charlatan causes me to cease putting any credence in your compositions.”
~ ~ ~
Our Lord spoke the truth to Kevin Barrett to help Protestants come to the faith.
Notice everyone, again, not a word from one Protestant or Mark to rebut the excerpt from the message or disprove all the Gospel verses I posted earlier this evening which obviously show Luther’s “Faith Alone” is false.
We don’t have to correspond again MarkBsnr, that’s okay.
I wish you the best,
stpio
So? I asked you to pay attention to history, both Biblical and Church. Be real and not dismissive of reality.
There is one faith, the Apostles believed in and confected the most Holy Eucharist. Our Lord named Peter leader of His Church, leader of the first followers of the faith. Peter was the first Pope. The faith is and always will be Roman Catholicism. The actual name came a few years later, St Ignatius was the one who first used the term Catholic.
Applause. The Catholic Church is the whole Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church is a particular Church of the Catholic Church.
It is not the entire Church.
Horse hockey. Prove it or cease and desist posting falsities.
Notice everyone, again, not a word from one Protestant or Mark to rebut the excerpt from the message or disprove all the Gospel verses I posted earlier this evening which obviously show Luther’s “Faith Alone” is false.
This is not about Luther's Faith Alone. It is about a charlatan who claims direct communication from Christ, and the fact that you keep championing him.
We don’t have to correspond again MarkBsnr, that’s okay.
That's nice. You are still wrong.
I am very sorry, but it appears we have reached, at least for now, a point of no return. I feel we have no shared understanding of how the Greek works, and without at least that as a common ground, we are doomed to go in circles forever getting nowhere. Honestly, I am too old for that. I need my sleep. No hard feelings.
Peace,
SR
Cheers!
There have been plenty of 'Protestant' reactions to the baloney posted. Since most of the responders consider the source as from other God due to the lack of proof, it isn't surprising that this 'prophet' speaks against Sola Fide and repeats some Catholic talking points. What else would Satan do for one of his followers? Bad company to keep.
In case anyone missed the post though, time to hit the corner with the spinning arrow advertising Special PRIVATE Revelations 50% Off.
“There have been plenty of ‘Protestant’ reactions to the baloney posted.”
~ ~ ~
Hi,
Only to say the excerpt from the message is false and Kevin Barrett is a false prophet. Never a word to why.
Why don’t you be the first. Jesus is perfect, He can explain something simple or complicated in a sentence and even fewer words.
Notice the “in caps”, share how they are false to prove
your Martin Luther’s lying “Sola Fide.” Even a professional
at rebuttal walked away (SR).
message to Protestant Kevin Barrett
April 1, 2012
Kevin’s website: http://hearhisheart.wordpress.com/
Oh hear Me, My people. Why do you listen to the hirelings and false teachers and prophets? Did I not say in My word that not all that say to me ‘Lord’ ‘Lord’ shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, save those that DO the will of the Father who is in heaven? Then why do you still go about doing your own will and tell yourselves that you are My bride? My people, you have been lied to by the enemy of your soul. Seek Me in these things. Surely I will reveal My truth to you. I love you, My dear children, and it is My desire that each of you share My throne with Me. But unfortunately only a remnant shall overcome. For too many have listened to the lies told by the FALSE SHEPHERDS and prophets. They speak of how you each are already cleansed and adorned in righteousness simply by your BELIEF on My name. These are all lies, My people. For does not My word say that he who DOES righteousness is righteous? Yes, My people, you are made righteous by your faith in Me, but it is FULLFILLED BY YOUR OBEDIENCE to My voice. IT IS NOT IMPUTED TO YOU BY A ONE-TIME CONFESSION OF MY NAME. Oh, My people, you have been lied to. Read My word for yourselves. Why listen to those that fatten themselves by fleecing My sheep? I have not sent many of the shepherds that are out there. They have sent themselves for their own glory and their own profit. Oh, My people, did I not say in My word to judge them by their fruit? Then where is the fruit, My people? Oh, but those that have itching ears care not about the fruit. They want to be told all is well and that they shall PROSPER if they simply believe on My name and My promises. Lies, lies, lies, I tell you.
Who also wasn't pinged per FR etiquette. As for refuting the assertions of a false prophet. God warns us not to have anything to do with false prophets. Because this one lines up with a preconceived notion you have accepted him. That is all fine. Reading the capped portion I've seen Eph 2:7-9 posted already; as for imputed grace Romans 4:1-25; these have been addressed from the Word of God.
Some want to rely on the newest thing, some are content to rely on God's Word. I am the latter, hello former.
Not to speak for SR, but he didn't walk away, he refused to deal with a practicioner of false prophecy, as do I at this point. Debate with the devil's agents are impracticable since they will never seek the truth and lies are their currency. Even if Catholic, you are shunned by them as well for the same reason. Congrats, at least for the moment there is unanimity on the Religion Forum.
Congrats, at least for the moment there is unanimity on the Religion Forum.
That alone was worth the price of admission for this particular exercise. :)
Peace,
SR
Keep holding his feet to the fire. He's posting nothing but nonsense that is going to lead people astray.
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