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To: Titanites
That was addressed to people persevering: building themselves up in faith, praying, keeping in the love of God, looking for Christ's mercy.

I realize that, and it is Christ who keeps us from stumbling and who WILL present us before God the Father WITHOUT FAULT. We are kept persevering through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. The earlier comment was implying that only those who persevere will be saved, but God says we WILL persevere THROUGH Christ. I can't help but think we talk past each other sometimes. If you truly believe that you are saved by faith and not by your works, then the motive for good works changes from being done out of fear of hell into out of gratitude for the great love and mercy of God that gives to us eternal life. Protestants do not say works don't matter, we say works do not ADD TO the sacrifice of Christ as payment for sin and it is through our faith that God imputes the righteousness of Christ upon our souls.

That same grace that gifts to us eternal life also enables us to live in holiness and we WILL persevere because it is Christ IN us - the hope of glory. Jesus said that he would lose none of us, he will not cast us out and he will not allow us to be plucked out of his hands. Some people come back with, "we can pluck ourselves out", but that is NOT true. Jesus said he would lose NOTHING but WILL raise us up with him in glory. He is holding onto us, we are not holding onto him. We are the child and a good, loving father would never let a child hold onto his hand, he holds onto the child's. It's the same with our Heavenly Father. he disciplines and chastises, but he will never disown us. we are sealed until the day of redemption. That is HIS promise and I trust Him.

207 posted on 06/15/2012 9:59:42 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
The earlier comment was implying that only those who persevere will be saved

It is not just implied:

    Matthew 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

    2 Timothy 2:12 If we endure, We shall also reign with [Him.] If we deny [Him,] He also will deny us.

    James 1:12 Blessed [is] the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

    James 5:11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end [intended by] the Lord -- that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.

    Revelation 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

If we stay in Christ and do not start to fall away, i.e. we endure temptation (James 1:12) we will indeed persevere through Christ.

I can't help but think we talk past each other sometimes. If you truly believe that you are saved by faith and not by your works

Faith with no action, e.g. prayer, love, charity, is dead and not real. Good works are the form of faith. Anyone who claims faith but does not act on it will not have everlasting life.

Nothing we do can earn our way to Heaven. We must accept the free gift and believe. However, our actions can have the effect of us declining the free gift, e.g. by not believing, not obeying, succumbing to temptation.

That same grace that gifts to us eternal life also enables us to live in holiness and we WILL persevere because it is Christ IN us - the hope of glory.

Not if you reject the gift. It isn't the hope of glory if it is assured.

208 posted on 06/15/2012 10:33:50 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: boatbums; Titanites
Philippians 1:3-11 3 I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, 4 always in every prayer of mine for you all making my prayer with joy, 5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now. 6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

7 It is right for me to feel this way about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel. 8 For God is my witness, how I yearn for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus. 9 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, 10 so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, 11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

Verses 9-11 explain HOW we are to work out our salvation. It's not to earn salvation, or to qualify for it, because despite the best we do we can never qualify for it or earn it. Salvation is not something to be bought for a price, any price. Money can't pay for it and works without money can't pay for it. There's not enough in the whole world to pay for a drop of the blood of Jesus.

And the filthy rags that our own righteousness are cannot be added to the sinless, spotless perfection of Jesus' works.

It'd be equivalent to a child drawing with a crayon on the Mona Lisa thinking that it improved on it and the artist would be pleased with his efforts.

Works are a natural outgrowth of salvation, the FRUIT of it. The fruit doesn't give life to the tree, the tree gives life to the fruit.

Saying one believes and adding works to it is also no different that tying fruit on a tree and acting as if the tree really produced it. Sure it may look it from a distance but it's not genuine.

Real life comes from within and works are a result of getting saved, not getting saved the result of doing works.

When we are saved, the works follow and as we renew our minds and become more Christlike, we are working out our salvation.

216 posted on 06/16/2012 5:43:21 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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