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Who’s in Charge Here? The Illusions of Church Infallibility
White Horse Inn Blog ^ | Jun.13, 2012 | Michael Horton

Posted on 06/13/2012 2:59:02 PM PDT by Gamecock

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To: metmom

****The body can be intrinsically different even if it LOOKS the same and has some of the same functions.****

LOL, I truly give up, at this point I don’t think even you can keep all the contortions and twisting about straight.

But, hey keep on keeping on, I don’t imagine there is anything that can throw off the canned response, even if they are incoherent.


351 posted on 06/19/2012 6:12:22 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette
But, is the disfigured or broken body seen that way by God, who sees us only with love? The disabled body is certainly difficult here, but will those difficulties exist in heaven?

I believe that God made us just the way He intended us to be - warts and all. While we live in these "earthen vessels", we ARE loved by our Creator and not one thing happens to us that He has not allowed for HIS purposes. But by that same token, we have these imperfections - diseases, disfigurements, handicaps, "difficulties" - because we live in a fallen world, one tainted by sin. For that reason I also believe that, in heaven, we will be complete and NOT subject to these faults that came about because of sin. Heaven will be perfect - no sin allowed at all - and no sign that sin ever effected any of us, other than the reminder of our Savior's sacrifice for us by His nail-scarred hands and feet.

Does God see us as we see ourselves or others as we see them? We do not see with the same love as He do we? I have said before, I believe that we will see each other as God sees us/them.

I think God sees us in reality - but HIS reality - and He sees all that we CAN be while we sojourn here. I agree, we don't have what it takes to really see each other as God sees us, yet Jesus said he had a new commandment to give his disciples. They were to "love one another as I have loved you". It had always been love your neighbor as yourself before, but we don't always love ourselves and if we cannot love ourselves, how can we love others? But this was something entirely NEW. To love each other as Christ loves us is the highest ideal of love. It is unconditional, sacrificial and all the best of what we can only imagine being loved like that is. Without the Holy Spirit within us, though, I do not think we CAN love like that, so, Jesus is setting the bar as high as it will go and then empowering us to reach it through Him.

In heaven, we WILL finally see each other as God sees us and we will all be changed, different, yet STILL able to be known to one another. We won't need name tags to know each other either, it is part of knowing as even we are known that we are promised. While we are still here on earth, though, I believe it is God's desire that we see others and love others as He does. If we all really did start thinking that way - the whole world would be changed for the better!

352 posted on 06/19/2012 7:30:22 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Jvette

You continue to twist and mangle my words to create a support for your foundationless position.

I didn’t say his body isn’t his body, and I cannot imaging how you even come to that.

His new body does not consist of the kind of matter that exists in space-time. Its not made up of the illusory atomic ‘particles’ that are scheduled to cease to exist as Peter stated in his second epistle, and it is not subject to the limitations of time. We will be the same, but we are not given specifics enough to understand.
.


353 posted on 06/19/2012 7:44:14 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they were.)
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To: editor-surveyor

I have twisted and mangled nothing.

His new body does not consist of the kind of matter that exists in space-time.

Really?

Dodge and attack.
Dodge and attack.
Dodge and attack.

Fail.

Jesus’ body has flesh.
Jesus’ body has bone.
Jesus’ body can consume food.

Jesus said it, I believe it and that settles it.


354 posted on 06/19/2012 7:51:34 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: boatbums

*****In heaven, we WILL finally see each other as God sees us and we will all be changed, different, yet STILL able to be known to one another. We won’t need name tags to know each other either, it is part of knowing as even we are known that we are promised. While we are still here on earth, though, I believe it is God’s desire that we see others and love others as He does. If we all really did start thinking that way - the whole world would be changed for the better! ******

Agreed.


355 posted on 06/19/2012 7:53:58 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette; boatbums; editor-surveyor; roamer_1

Canned response? Do tell, from where did I get it?

Our body is not who we are. It is merely a convenient housing for our soul, which is what we really are. Changing the housing does not change the person.

Catholics have too much of a focus on this material, physical, earthly existence and not enough on the spiritual reality in which we operate every moment of our lives. It’s like they don’t even know it exists and they’re operating in it every moment of their lives.

This world is temporal and temporary.It will not last, it is destined for destruction, praise God, so that the new reality, called the new heavens and new earth, which are not tainted by or corrupted by sin can be established.

What is seen is transient, what is unseen is eternal. (2 Corinthians 4)


356 posted on 06/20/2012 10:44:36 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

****Our body is not who we are. It is merely a convenient housing for our soul, which is what we really are. Changing the housing does not change the person.*****

And that is heresy which I think, though I am not sure, is known as Gnosticism.

What you are saying is that the body was created by God for corruption and destruction and that is just not true.

For one, it belies the dignity and goodness of God who does not create anything merely for the purpose to destroy it.

It denies the love for which we are created.

The body does not exist without the soul.
The soul does not exist but for the body.

God so loved the human body that He created one for Himself, in order to offer that body in sacrifice as atonement for our sins, redemption for our bodies and souls and to reopen through obedience what had been closed through disobedience.

The belief that the body is refuse, mere garbage to be discarded/replaced is not Scriptural and denies the bodily resurrection Scripture promises. It is not a Christian belief.


357 posted on 06/20/2012 11:02:15 AM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette
"Really?"

If a soul were to acquire a new body the Scriptural term would be reincarnation not resurrection.

Peace be with you.

358 posted on 06/20/2012 12:40:18 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law

You once warned me that many of those we debate here are the fringe and not mainstream Protestant. I think this debate over bodily resurrection couldn’t affirm that fact any more clearly.

Reincarnation. You hit the nail on the head.


359 posted on 06/21/2012 2:39:51 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette
"Reincarnation. You hit the nail on the head."

I find it so problematic when some who claim to argue authoritatively about the meaning of first century Koine Greek idioms display such a limited understanding of modern English. They are far too often more concerned with who is right instead of what is right.

It does seem that the injection of a little common sense into this discussion had a very chilling effect.

Peace be with you.

360 posted on 06/21/2012 4:04:55 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law

*****It does seem that the injection of a little common sense into this discussion had a very chilling effect.****

Yes, it would seem they don’t want to play anymore.


361 posted on 06/21/2012 5:32:09 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Jvette
"Yes, it would seem they don’t want to play anymore."

I always find an unexpected encounter with the truth to be enlightening and uplifting. What do you think motivates those who find the truth suppressive?

Peace be with you.

362 posted on 06/21/2012 6:12:03 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law

Like mice who have been trained to run a maze, when one is forced into a dead end, one just turns to try and find another opening hoping that one will lead to the finish line and a tasty bite of cheese.

I guess the truth is a dead end that truly boxes one in, leaving no other opening to run through.


363 posted on 06/21/2012 6:22:36 PM PDT by Jvette
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