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BBC interview with LDS leader earns controversy [An Lds 'apostle' 'lie' about Romney's oath-taking?]
Salt Lake City Weekly ^ | June 5, 2012 | Stephen Dark

Posted on 06/07/2012 5:50:38 AM PDT by Colofornian

Posted // 2012-06-05 - A BBC investigative journalist's interview with Jeffery R. Holland, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, raises intriguing questions about the LDS Church and its beliefs.

The documentary, released in March but yet to be broadcast Stateside, is called The Mormon Candidate and featured a sit-down interview in the LDS Church Headquarters in downtown Salt Lake City between British reporter John Sweeney and Holland.

Among Sweeney's questions were several relating to whether U.S. presidential candidate Mitt Romney would have pledged to cut his own throat or disembowel himself before revealing the secrets of the LDS temple ceremonies. In edited footage, Holland said, "That's not true." He later says that vows would have been made "regarding the ordinances of the temple." Such penalty oaths were taken out of the temple ceremony some time ago, one Sweeney interview subject said, albeit after Romney would have taken his temple oaths.

Sweeney asked Holland about church members shunning those who leave their faith. Holland noted that he would choose not to cut out of family life one of his children if they decided to leave Mormonism.

Others highlights of the interview include questions relating to the baptizing of dead Holocaust victims, similarities between the LDS Church and Masonic organizations and whether the LDS Church is a cult. By this point in the interview, Holland's distinct unease had unraveled to almost cavalier frustration. "I'm not an idiot," he told Sweeney—nor, he implied, are the 14 million members-plus members of his growing church.

Sweeney also brought up the "Strengthening the Members" committee, a group within the LDS Church that polices polygamists and other vocal apostates or breakaways from the church. Holland acknowledged their continued existence as a group dedicated to protecting the church's membership from dangerous critics.

Perhaps the most interesting question is why the interview took place at all. The LDS Church is not known for allowing media to interview its hierarchy.

Given that Sweeney was responsible for a controversial BBC documentary on the Church of Scientology—including an infamous on-air rant by Sweeney against church media handlers—the wisdom of agreeing to a sit-down with Holland is a head-scratcher, particularly given the way Holland struggled to answer some of Sweeney's unabashedly direct questions.

A PR firm for the church hand-delivered to BBC offices in London a letter complaining about the "ambush" interview, according to The Guardian.

The documentary will be broadcast in the United States later this year—presumably before the election.


TOPICS: Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: inman; jefferyholland; lds; mormon; mormonbashing; romney
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From the article: The documentary, released in March but yet to be broadcast Stateside, is called The Mormon Candidate and featured a sit-down interview in the LDS Church Headquarters in downtown Salt Lake City between British reporter John Sweeney and Holland. Among Sweeney's questions were several relating to whether U.S. presidential candidate Mitt Romney would have pledged to cut his own throat or disembowel himself before revealing the secrets of the LDS temple ceremonies. In edited footage, Holland said, "That's not true." He later says that vows would have been made "regarding the ordinances of the temple." Such penalty oaths were taken out of the temple ceremony some time ago, one Sweeney interview subject said, albeit after Romney would have taken his temple oaths.

So, when this Mormon "apostle" said about Romney not taking this oath ("that's not true"), he openly lied.

From the article: The documentary will be broadcast in the United States later this year—presumably before the election.

The MSM expose' on Mormonism will be a pounding this summer & fall.

1 posted on 06/07/2012 5:50:55 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Who cares...I don’t.


2 posted on 06/07/2012 5:52:03 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: All
From the article: Others highlights of the interview include questions relating to the baptizing of dead Holocaust victims, similarities between the LDS Church and Masonic organizations and whether the LDS Church is a cult. By this point in the interview, Holland's distinct unease had unraveled to almost cavalier frustration. "I'm not an idiot," he told Sweeney—nor, he implied, are the 14 million members-plus members of his growing church.

This will be an interesting documentary as its viewing spreads across the nation.

3 posted on 06/07/2012 5:52:47 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god f rom Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian

its ok....this is a free country..you may vote for Obama if you like...

good for you.


4 posted on 06/07/2012 5:54:49 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: All
From the article: The documentary, released in March but yet to be broadcast Stateside, is called The Mormon Candidate and featured a sit-down interview in the LDS Church Headquarters in downtown Salt Lake City between British reporter John Sweeney and Holland. Among Sweeney's questions were several relating to whether U.S. presidential candidate Mitt Romney would have pledged to cut his own throat or disembowel himself before revealing the secrets of the LDS temple ceremonies. In edited footage, Holland said, "That's not true." He later says that vows would have been made "regarding the ordinances of the temple." Such penalty oaths were taken out of the temple ceremony some time ago, one Sweeney interview subject said, albeit after Romney would have taken his temple oaths.

So what did the oath consist of?

See chart below -- last row, last column on the right:

Lds Leader Chronological 'Prophet' or Fundamental # (or Other Title) Overlap Areas: Could the President of the U.S. become a 'puppet' to an Lds 'Prophet?' (The Lds Prophets -- in their own words)
John Taylor Lds 'Prophet' #3 “The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto…[so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours…and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862)
Orson Hyde President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875) “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)
Heber J. Grant Lds 'Prophet' #7 "Elder Marion G. Romney recalled the counsel of President Heber J. Grant: 'My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.' Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, 'But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray'" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1960, p. 78)." Cited in Official Lds publication Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, p. 209 (1984)
Harold B. Lee Lds 'Prophet' #11 ...President Harold B. Lee said: 'We must learn to give heed to the words and commandments that the Lord shall give through his prophet, '...as if from mine own mouth...(D&C 21:4-5)...You may not like what comes from the authority of the Church. It may contradict your political views. It may contradict your social views. It may interfere with some of your social life. But if you listen to these things, as if from the mouth of the Lord himself..." Cited in official Lds publication Remember Me: Relief Society Personal Study Guide I, p. 27 (1989)
Spencer Kimball Lds 'Prophet' #12 "President Spencer W. Kimball said: '...We deal with many things which are thought to be not so spiritual; but all things are spiritual with the Lord, and he expects us to listen, and to obey..." (In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, p. 8; or Ensign, May 1977, p. 7) Cited in official Lds publication Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983, p.12 (1983)
What about Marion G. Romney, cousin to Mitt's father? Who was he in Lds hierarchy? (Title: 'President' - Top 3 of church as 2nd counselor to both #11 & #12 Lds 'prophets') "Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said: 'Following the living prophets is something that must be done in all seasons and circumstances. We must be like President Marion G. Romney, who humbly said, '..I have never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, and political life' (Conference Report, April 1941, p. 123). There are, or will be moments when prophetic declarations collide with our pride or our seeming personal interests...Do I believe in the living prophet even when he speaks on matters affecting me and my specialty directly? Or do I stop sustaining the prophet when his words fall in my territory? if the latter, the prophet is without honor in our country! (Things As They Really Are, p. 73). Cited in official Lds publication, Search the Commandments: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, pp. 275-276 (1984)
Ezra Taft Benson Lds 'Prophet' #13 Benson speech given 2/26/80 @BYU. Summary: “…remember, if there is ever a conflict between earthly knowledge and the words of the prophet, you stand with the prophet…” (See excerpts re: 3 of 14 'fundamentals' below) Source: Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #5 5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (My Q: Ya hear that Mitt Romney?)
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #9 9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (My Q: Still listening, Mitt?)
Benson (cont'd) Fundamental #10 10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (My Q: What say ye Mitt?)
B.H. Roberts LDS Historian and Seventy. Note: Roberts was an elected Democratic Congressman from Utah in 1898 -- but was NEVER seated by Congress because of grass roots uproar vs. Roberts, who took a THIRD simultaneous wife in the early 1890s. Grass roots America collected 7 MILLION signatures on 28 banners and presented them to Congress...in pre-mass media 1800s! “[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a POLITICAL INSTITUTION THAT SHALL HOLD SWAY OVER ALL THE EARTH; TO WHICH ALL OTHER GOVERNMENTS WILL BE SUBORDINATE AND BY WHICH THEY WILL BE DOMINATED.” The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180
Mitt Romney as POTUS??? Aside from above prophetic impositions, why would Mitt not only honor what these 'prophets' have spoken, but what a future Lds 'prophet' may tell him to do? The Law of Consecration Oath Mitt Romney has sworn in the Mormon temple (done before marriage/sealing in temple): "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the law of consecration as contained in this, the book of Doctrine and Covenants [he displays the book], in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and EVERYTHING with which the Lord has blessed you, or WITH which he MAY bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion." Source: What is an LDS Church/Mormon temple marriage/sealing? [Q: Please define 'Zion': The LDS PR Web site (lds.org) defines its primary meaning: "membership in the [LDS] church."]

5 posted on 06/07/2012 5:55:34 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god f rom Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian

Barrack Hussein 0bama was a muslim polygamist - religion that advocates lying to advance islam.

Barry then switched to Rev. Wright’s Fake Church Of The Black Communist Jesus, which advocates lying to destroy Western civilization.

Mitt took the same oath that Masons take. Wow.

Take your pick.


6 posted on 06/07/2012 6:07:47 AM PDT by Notwithstanding (Christ Jesus Victor, Ruler, Lord and Redeemer!)
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To: Vaquero

R...e...l...i...g...i...o...n forum

This post was about the religion of mormonism, not politics.

Vote for whomever you wish.

But your comment is so typical of the many mittbots that infest FR lately. Use the tools right out of Alinsky’s playbook and accuse another of that which you yourself are engaged in. Voting for a socialist piece of garbage.

Good for you.


7 posted on 06/07/2012 6:07:59 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: SZonian

R...e...l...i...g...i...o...n forum

and of course there was NO political implication, for posting it...

Really?

I hate romney as much as anyone....

but Obama can NOT have another 4 years without having to worry about re-election.


8 posted on 06/07/2012 6:24:58 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Colofornian

Colo,

While I reject mormonism thoroughly as a giant masonic scam that has nothing to do with Christ, nothing in your chart concerns me regarding Mitt (I was strongly and actively anti-Mitt all throughout the primary race).

As our founders intended and exhorted, I want people of faith to serve as President because Iwant their faith to guide their decisions. There is nothing to suggest a Mormon would act unconstitutionally if his religion were to guide every single decision (not so with izlam).

Masons have been president many times, and masonry is the pagan cult that mormonism is based upon. While I could point to masonic ideals that presidents advanced while in office that harmed the USA, it is clear that mormonism is no worse than masonry. The real distinction is the Mormons are more faithful to their cult than masons are to theirs - which actually is a Mormon virtue.


9 posted on 06/07/2012 6:26:37 AM PDT by Notwithstanding (Christ Jesus Victor, Ruler, Lord and Redeemer!)
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To: Colofornian
Sweeney asked Holland about church members shunning those who leave their faith. Holland noted that he would choose not to cut out of family life one of his children if they decided to leave Mormonism.

I can imagine (any time now) that Sweeney will be interviewing Barack Hussein Obama about his views on Islam, their "take" on those who leave the "Religion of Pieces" (APOSTASY): IBN ABBAAS SAID : THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH SAID, “WHOEVER CHANGES HIS (ISLAMIC) RELIGION, KILL HIM.” AL-BUKHARY (NUMBER 6922)....

AND not what we know happened 1,400 years ago, or 100 years ago, but recently (LIKE THIS PAST WEEK, SEE: MUSLIMS SLAUGHTER CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY

Then of course, Sweeney can ask Dear Leader about how women are treated under Islam; how NO Churches (or any religious symbols or practice of any faith) are allowed in Saudi Arabia and in most Islamic Republics...

Then he can segue into how Christians are being harassed, persecuted, and murdered throughout the Islamic World...

Then...well this is wishful thinking cuz we know it ain't gonna happen.

Mmmm, lets see now, who is more of a "threat" to the safety and security of the United States among these 2?

Barack-Obama-arrogance Mitt-Romney-2756

And of these 2, which is more dangerous to our survival?

th 174678_178612982172493_29733_n

The Muslim Brotherhood Creed: “Allah is our objective; the Prophet is our leader; the Quran is our law; Jihad is our way; dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.”

The Muslim Brotherhood Agenda as outlined in 1991 in Phildelphia:

"The process of settlement [of Islam in the United States] is a "Civilization-Jihadist" process with all the word means.

THE IKHWAN MUST UNDERSTAND THAT ALL THEIR WORK IN AMERICA IS A KIND OF GRAND JIHAD IN ELIMINATING AND DESTROYING THE WESTERN CIVILIZATION FROM WITHIN AND "SABOTAGING" THEIR MISERABLE HOUSE BY THEIR HANDS AND THE HANDS OF THE BELIEVERS SO THAT IT IS ELIMINATED AND GOD'S RELIGION IS MADE VICTORIOUS OVER ALL RELIGIONS.

Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim's destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who choose to slack.

All it takes for .....

capt.photo_1245188299465-1-0 obama-rip-constitution

.....EVIL....

..... to triumph is for good men to do nothing.......!"

10 QUOTES BY BARACK OBAMA ON ISLAM

#1 “Islam has always been part of America.”

#2 “We will encourage more Americans to study in Muslim communities.”

#3 “These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.”

#4 “America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.”

#5 “I have known Islam on three continents before coming to the region where it was first revealed”

#6 “Ramadan is a celebration of a faith known for great diversity and racial equality” #7 “As a young man, I worked in Chicago communities where many found dignity and peace in their Muslim faith.”

#8 “I look forward to hosting an Iftar dinner celebrating Ramadan here at the White House later this week and wish you a blessed month.”

#9 “That experience guides my conviction that partnership between America and Islam must be based on what Islam is, not what it isn’t. And I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear.”

#10 “I also know that Islam has always been a part of America’s story.”

10 QUOTES BY BARACK OBAMA ON CHRISTIANITY

#1 “Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation.”

#2 “We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation.”

#3 “Which passages of scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is okay and that eating shellfish is an abomination? Or we could go with Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith?”

#4 “Even those who claim the Bible’s inerrancy make distinctions between Scriptural edicts, sensing that some passages — the Ten Commandments, say, or a belief in Christ’s divinity — are central to Christian faith, while others are more culturally specific and may be modified to accommodate modern life.”

#5 “The American people intuitively understand this, which is why the majority of Catholics practice birth control and some of those opposed to gay marriage nevertheless are opposed to a Constitutional amendment to ban it. Religious leadership need not accept such wisdom in counseling their flocks, but they should recognize this wisdom in their politics.”

#6 From Obama’s book, the Audacity of Hope : “I am not willing to have the state deny American citizens a civil union that confers equivalent rights on such basic matters as hospital visitation or health insurance coverage simply because the people they love are of the same sex — nor am I willing to accept a reading of the Bible that considers an obscure line in Romans to be more defining of Christianity than the Sermon on the Mount.”

#7 “I find it hard to believe that my God would consign four-fifths of the world to hell. I can’t imagine that my God would allow some little Hindu kid in India who never interacts with the Christian faith to somehow burn for all eternity. That’s just not part of my religious makeup.”

#8 “Those opposed to abortion cannot simply invoke God’s will — they have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths.

” #9 On his support for civil unions for gay couples: “If people find that controversial then I would just refer them to the Sermon on the Mount.”

#10 “I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people.”

Barack Hussein Obama: Mmm, mm, mmm!

Though we are all aware of Obama's proclivity towards appeasing Islam and Islamic Republics; his negotiating with our enemies (Taliban); his release of captured Terrorists; his support of the "Arab Spring" in the ME which has led to the takeover of those countries by Radical Islamists; etc, many are not aware of what he has done to facilitate their (Islamists) acceptance and appointment to positions of "trust" within our own Government

Here are but 6 of those individuals:

03hussain
Rashad Hussain

sk.kifa
Kifa Mustapha

Mohamed_Elibiary

Momamed Elibiary

huma

Huma Abedin

dalia-mogahed

Daliah Mogahed

ImamMagid-TN

Mohamed Magid

Considering that some Freepers have framed their arguments that voting for Romney would be not only NOT “Patriotic,” but worst, “Not Christian,” perhaps they should stop and consider what we face with another 4 years of a Regime under Obama would mean and his facilitating “Stealth Jihad” and the Islamization of America.

Islam is a frontal attack on Christianity and Judaism and its time we understood this threat and called it what it is. We are not in a “war on terror”, which so many politically correct politicians would have us believe.

The whole world is, and has been for 1,400 years, in a WAR AGAINST ISLAM! If we do not stand up against this cancerous enemy, whose ultimate goal is to bring the entire world into submission to Islam and have all people worship none but Allah, then Western Civilization and human freedom as we know it will soon cease to exist.

America faces in addition to the threat of violent jihad another, even more toxic danger – a stealthy and pre-violent form of warfare aimed at destroying our constitutional form of democratic government and free society. The Muslim Brotherhood is the prime-mover behind this seditious campaign, which it calls “civilization jihad.”

For a detailed description of who these individuals pictured above are, their goals and what damage they have done and the real threat they pose, see the following:

Muslim Brotherhood in America Part 8: Team Obama and the Islamists

IF after viewing this video, one does not come away with the resolve to do whatever it takes to defeat Barack Hussein Obama, then I worry about the future of our Great Republic.

PS: One should at least bookmark this most enlightening, informative, well researched and documented 10-part Series by Frank Gaffney (Muslim Brotherhood in America) and watch all of it as soon as time permits.

10 posted on 06/07/2012 6:35:54 AM PDT by Conservative Vermont Vet (l)
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To: Vaquero

eye roll
Not supporting Romney IS NOT the same as voting for BHO.
It is not only an ignorant premise it is just plain stupid.


11 posted on 06/07/2012 6:50:52 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Colofornian
Sweeney asked Holland about church members shunning those who leave their faith. Holland noted that he would choose not to cut out of family life one of his children if they decided to leave Mormonism.

Interesting answer, what he is saying is that "yes, lds do shun people who leave, but I personally might not do that."

12 posted on 06/07/2012 6:52:27 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Colofornian

The choices are clear on who we can trust to preserve religious liberty. That is what matters to me.


13 posted on 06/07/2012 7:04:22 AM PDT by vivabushchick (Obama lies: The gift that keeps giving.)
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To: Colofornian

I don’t care for Mormonism, but we ain’t voting for pope.
I say goodbye and good riddance to Barry Soetoro and the Wookie he rode in on.


14 posted on 06/07/2012 7:15:32 AM PDT by frankenMonkey (This tagline space for rent. Inquire within.)
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To: vivabushchick

And who would that be?


15 posted on 06/07/2012 7:23:56 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Perdogg; Colofornian
Who cares...I don’t.

You will once the media has pounded the Mormon issue into the dust and lowered Mitt's poll numbers into the toilet.
16 posted on 06/07/2012 7:41:35 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: Vaquero; SZonian
I hate romney as much as anyone....

but Obama can NOT have another 4 years without having to worry about re-election.


Apparently not.

You're apparently violating your principles and conscience by voting for a lying, left-wing, Progressive Liberal.
17 posted on 06/07/2012 7:43:50 AM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

I endorse post 10 above.

Some FR may have some issues with the tenets of the Mormon Religion and that is their right as an American to express civil discourse.

BUT, when measured against Obama’s political, social and stance on freedom of religion (ObamaCare v. Roman Catholic and other churches), Romney is the good guy and Obama is the guy who is the threat. November 2012 is when America chooses the path to a better future or jumps off the cliff. I stand with the choice that saves us from Obama’s errors and deeds.


18 posted on 06/07/2012 7:44:52 AM PDT by RicocheT (Eat the rich only if you're certain it's your last meal)
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To: Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; aMorePerfectUnion; Godzilla; fishtank; metmom; ..
The MittBots are in a frenzy over this article..you can tell when the truth is hitting home.

I just recently discovered information about the "strengthening the membership committee" From Steve Benson

Some excerpts from Steven's post.

----------------------------------------

Oaks's benign version of the "Strengthening the Members Committe (and the similiar spin offered up by Holland and Murphy) has been proven to be quite deceptive, as subsequently shown con by blogger "Mormon Heretic,"" who details how claims by Oaks and Company simply don't square with the facts:

"A few months ago, I received an advance copy of a new book by Philip Lindholm called 'Latter-day Dissent: At the Crossroads of Intellectual Inquiry and Ecclesiastical Authority.' . . .

"The most interesting topic to me (outside of the excommunications [of the September Six"] themselves) was learning about the 'Strengthening the Church [Members] Committee' (SCMC). I had never heard of it before. In describing it, ['September Six' member] Lynne Whitesides said on p. 6:

"'There is a "Strengthening Church Members Committee" that we didn’t know about at the time, a Gestapo-like group which press-clipped everything anyone said who might be considered an enemy of the Church, meaning one who disagreed with Church policy.'

"Footnote 4 on p. 181 further clarifies this:

"'According to Apostle Dallin H. Oaks, the "Strengthening Church Members Committee" is a "clipping service" that "pores over newspapers and other publications and identifies members accused of crimes, preaching false doctrine, criticizing leadership or other problems. That information is forwarded on to the person’s bishop or stake president, who is charged with helping them overcome problems and stay active in the Church.'
(quoted in 'News: Six Intellectuals Disciplined for Apostasy,' 'Sunstone' 92, November 1993, p. 69)


"The First Presidency further clarified the nature and history of the 'Strengthening Church Members Committee' when it stated, 'This committee serves as a resource to priesthood leaders throughout the world who may desire assistance on a wide variety of topics. It is a General Authority committee . . . . They work through established priesthood channels, and neither impose nor direct Church disciplinary action.' (quoted in 'News: Church Defends Keeping Files on Members,' in 'Sunstone' 88, August 1992, p. 63)

"Many of those called in for investigatory interviews or discipline have claimed that this Committee is responsible for compiling incriminating evidence against targeted members.

"Here is what Donald Jessee, former employee of LDS Church’s Public Affairs Department said when asked about the Committee. From pp. 217-220:

"Donald: 'It‘s a committee that seeks information that, in time, if the proper action is taken, does just that--it can strengthen Church members through proper discipline.'

"Philip: 'How so? Many excommunicants have claimed that it collected files on them in preparation for potential disciplinary courts.'

"Donald: 'They do it by caring about members of the Church. Discipline designed to help members who have gone astray. The Church from its beginning has gathered anti-Mormon literature and derogatory or false information about the Church. If the source of this information comes from Church members of record, then action is taken. The Church must be aware of its critics and enemies. Again, Church leaders must keep the Church morally clean and ethically straight.'


"Philip: 'Should academics avoid publishing research if it could be understood as contradicting the Church’s position on a given topic?'

"Donald: 'Members can publish whatever they want. There’s no censorship. It depends on the context and the person’s motives in doing what has been done. If a BYU professor, whose salary is paid with Church funds and who has signed an honor code of conduct to keep university rules, then publicly goes out and violates them, then that person is subject to discipline, but he or she is free to speak about any issue he or she wants to.'

"Philip: 'What about those topics not yet given much attention by Church leaders? Do members have free reign on those topics? Thomas Murphy was nearly excommunicated for doing genetic research that the Mormon Church had yet to conduct. How much freedom is one afforded on such controversial but relatively unaddressed topics? Mother in Heaven is another example of a controversial topic upon which people have published and been punished for doing so.'

"Donald: 'Well, in the case of Murphy, he says that because of DNA he has proven that the Book of Mormon is not true. How does he know? There were other groups of people here in America before Lehi arrived here….How could DNA prove or disprove the truthfulness of a book brought here under the hand of God?'

"'I do not know anything regarding those who have been disciplined for publishing on the doctrine of a Mother in Heaven. Chances are they presented their ideas in a way that ran counter to true religion and to the Church and its teachings. Speculation on such matters can lead members astray and destroy faith in God the Father. Praying to a Mother in Heaven is not a true doctrine, no matter how it is defined or presented. It undermines faith in the true process of offering prayers, which is to pray to Heavenly Father in the name of Christ.

"'Members can believe anything they want. Church members may believe they have a Mother in Heaven, but to go out teaching that we ought to pray to her, or that we give details about her when both the prophets and the scriptures are silent–this violates the teachings of the Church…

"'If Church members go to their friends and start talking about practicing plural marriage, they are not in harmony with the Church. Yes, there are some things where common sense says, "Don’t discuss it in private or in public." Otherwise, hey, I’ve got the freedom to think anything I want, but I need to be careful that I’m not trying to represent the Church with my point of view or convince others that a certain doctrine or practice represents true religion or is what the issue or is what the Church teaches. As an individual, I can speculate all I want on any issue or topic as long as I keep to myself those matters that are not in harmony with truth and the Church and its teachings.

19 posted on 06/07/2012 7:45:54 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Until the 52K LDS missionaries claiming Christian faith is bogus quit, I will post LDS truth.)
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To: Colofornian
"Strengthening the Members" committee

The proper name of this committee is the Strengthening Church Members Committee, and anybody writing for the Salt Lake City Weekly should know that, as the committee's been around almost 30 years. The disclosure of the once-secret committee (as the result of a leaked memo) led to a Sunstone Symposium and a series of newspaper articles just before the September Six in the very early 1990s.

Although I find distasteful the idea of any committee that monitors and collects criticisms of church leaders (sometimes leading to excommunication or disenfellowshipment - see the "September Six"), it bothered me more that Holland first denied knowledge of the committee's existence, then upon further questioning, acknowledged it and said he would give Sweeney the names of people who could tell him what the committee was currently doing.

But the committee is Big Brother-esque.

And none of that's an attack on any of our good FR LDS members (unless they're Jefferey Holland or work on the report-your-neighbor committee). I respect their rights, and the rights of all FR members to their religious beliefs.

20 posted on 06/07/2012 7:47:57 AM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it)
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To: SZonian; All

“This post was about the religion of mormonism, not politics.”

You have missed the point. With Mormonisn, politics and belief CANNOT and are NOT separate. So, the beliefs of Mormonism, with a devout Mormon as a candidate, are most definitely open for political discusssion.

Romney WILL be under the influence of the Salt Lake City Mafia. Plus, he isn’t a true conservative...which you should already know.

Ergo...with either Obama or Romney...we are in deep trouble.


21 posted on 06/07/2012 7:49:06 AM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: RicocheT

So by your statement you know nothing about Romney’s record then.
mormons are FREE to beleive whatever they want, it is not a religion it is a cult that bastardizes the word of God Almighty.
Putting that aside, Romney is a liberal, he has lived his life as a liberal, he has governed as a liberal - sorry I am not interested in a man who promoted free to low cost abortions, homo-sexual marriage/adoption, government mandates, government health care, higher taxes, more government, man made global warming.........
You know all those things BHO promotes.


22 posted on 06/07/2012 8:06:01 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: greyfoxx39

Wow, no wonder they worked with that group in WWII so well.


23 posted on 06/07/2012 8:08:20 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Sola Veritas

We have apparently nominated a flat head screw driver and a Phillips head screw driver to run for president - either way we are screwed.


24 posted on 06/07/2012 8:11:01 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Colofornian
BBC interview with LDS leader earns controversy...

WHAT 'controversy'?

The FACTS are PLAIN to see.

25 posted on 06/07/2012 8:14:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
Such penalty oaths were taken out of the temple ceremony some time ago, one Sweeney interview subject said, albeit after Romney would have taken his temple oaths.

Oh?

On WHOSE 'authority??

Where is the REVELATION FROM GOD on such making such a change?

26 posted on 06/07/2012 8:19:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
On WHOSE 'authority??

(perhaps the MASONs sued them for copyright infrigement ;^)

27 posted on 06/07/2012 8:20:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Perdogg
Who cares...I don’t.

Oh?

Then WHY did you waste your time posting this?

28 posted on 06/07/2012 8:22:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
"I'm not an idiot," he told Sweeney...

Perhaps; but you ARE a HERETIC!

29 posted on 06/07/2012 8:23:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Vaquero
its ok....this is a free country..you may vote for Obama if you like...

its ok....this is a free country..you may vote for either a DECIEVED mormon or a DECEIVING mormon if you like.

30 posted on 06/07/2012 8:25:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Vaquero
but Obama can NOT have another 4 years without having to worry about re-election.

Why not?

31 posted on 06/07/2012 8:27:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Notwithstanding
... I want people of faith to serve as President because Iwant their faith to guide their decisions.

Faith in WHAT??

You got your wish already in OBAMA!

32 posted on 06/07/2012 8:28:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet

You are a RELIGIOUS BIGOT!!

—Islamo_Dude(WHY do you FEAR us so?)


33 posted on 06/07/2012 8:30:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
Holland noted that HE would choose not to cut out of family life one of his children if they decided to leave Mormonism.
34 posted on 06/07/2012 8:31:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: vivabushchick
The choices are clear on who we can trust to preserve religious liberty.


Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

35 posted on 06/07/2012 8:32:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: vivabushchick
The choices are clear on who we can trust to preserve religious liberty.




...the presidential campaign of Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith in 1844: “Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that ‘they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.’

Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church.

36 posted on 06/07/2012 8:33:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: frankenMonkey
I don’t care for Mormonism, but we ain’t voting for pope.

 
 

Office of First President & Living Prophet®:

November 1st, 2011

The message for this month is -

Primaries are coming up REAL soon; so we MUST stay on our mantra:
        We are NOT electing a pastor/pope, but a PRESIDENT!!

We've been taking a beating on the Internet - especially from those hateful ANTIs on FreeRepublic!
We MUST keep the media constantly informed of those things the world considers christian.

We must NOT allow our MORMONness to show thru, as it has gotten a really bad rap thru history - lord only knows why...
Tommy

37 posted on 06/07/2012 8:34:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: RicocheT
Then you may wish to change your homepage...


"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

~ Prager Zeitung, Prague Newspaper, 28 April 2010

38 posted on 06/07/2012 8:37:17 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian

The previous ‘president’ (prophet) of LDS inc lied to Larry King regarding the Lorenzo Snow couplet. Seems to be a pattern at the highest levels of this cult.


39 posted on 06/07/2012 8:39:03 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: greyfoxx39
...subsequently shown by blogger "Mormon Heretic"

The aforementioned has been referred to the Department of Redundancy deptarment.

40 posted on 06/07/2012 8:39:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: svcw
...it is a cult that bastardizes the word of God Almighty.

How CAN you say such vicious and hurtful things?


 
See some differences between GOD's Word and the Joseph Smith's 'translation'
 
 


Color coding explanation:
 
Added stuff... Changed stuff... Rearranged stuff... Removed stuff... 
 *(UNDERLINED stuff is the DISTRACTING reference on every tenth word or so that infuses LDS 'scripture' online.)

 
 
 
 

JOSEPH SMITH—MATTHEW
An extract from the translation of the Bible as revealed to Joseph Smith the Prophet in 1831: Matthew 23: 39 and chapter 24.
Jesus foretells the impending destruction of Jerusalem—He also discourses on the second coming of the Son of Man, and the destruction of the wicked.
1 aFor I say unto you, that ye shall not see me henceforth and know that I am he of whom it is written by the prophets, until ye shall say: Blessed is he who bcometh in the name of the Lord, in the clouds of heaven, and all the holy angels with him. Then understood his disciples that he should come again on the earth, after that he was glorified and ccrowned on the right hand of God.
2 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple; and his disciples came to him, for to ahear him, saying: Master, show us concerning the buildings of the temple, as thou hast said—They shall be thrown down, and left unto you desolate.
3 And Jesus said unto them: See ye not all these things, and do ye not understand them? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here, upon this temple, one astone upon another that shall not be thrown down.
4 And Jesus left them, and went upon the Mount of Olives. And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be which thou hast said concerning the destruction of the temple, and the Jews; and what is the asign of thy bcoming, and of the cend of the world, or the destruction of the dwicked, which is the end of the world?
5 And Jesus answered, and said unto them: Take heed that no man deceive you;
6 For many shall come in my name, saying—I am aChrist—and shall deceive many;
7 Then shall they deliver you up to be aafflicted, and shall kill you, and ye shall be bhated of all nations, for my name’s sake;
8 And then shall many be aoffended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another;
9 And many afalse prophets shall arise, and shall deceive many;
10 And because iniquity shall abound, the alove of many shall wax cold;
11 But he that remaineth asteadfast and is not overcome, the same shall be saved.
12 When you, therefore, shall see the aabomination of bdesolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, concerning the destruction of cJerusalem, then you shall stand in the dholy place; whoso readeth let him understand.
13 Then let them who are in Judea flee into the amountains;
14 Let him who is on the housetop flee, and not return to take anything out of his house;
15 Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes;
16 And wo unto them that are with achild, and unto them that give suck in those days;
17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;
18 For then, in those days, shall be great atribulation on the bJews, and upon the inhabitants of cJerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.
19 All things which have befallen them are only the beginning of the sorrows which shall come upon them.
20 And except those days should be shortened, there should none of their flesh be asaved; but for the elect’s sake, according to the bcovenant, those days shall be shortened.
21 Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not;
22 For in those days there shall also arise false aChrists, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.
23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the aelect’s sake; and you also shall hear of bwars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.
24 Behold, I have told you before;
25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;
26 For as the light of the morning cometh out of the aeast, and shineth even unto the west, and covereth the whole earth, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
27 And now I show unto you a parable. Behold, wheresoever the acarcass is, there will the eagles be bgathered together; so likewise shall mine elect be gathered from the four quarters of the earth.
28 And they shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars.
29 Behold I speak for mine elect’s sake; for nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be afamines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
30 And again, because iniquity shall abound, the love of men shall wax acold; but he that shall not be overcome, the same shall be saved.
31 And again, this aGospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all bnations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;
32 And again shall the aabomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled.
33 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the asun shall be bdarkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the cstars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
34 Verily, I say unto you, this ageneration, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.
35 Although, the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my awords shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled.
36 And, as I said before, after the atribulation of those days, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth bmourn; and they shall see the cSon of Man dcoming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory;
37 And whoso atreasureth up my word, shall not be deceived, for the Son of Man shall bcome, and he shall send his cangels before him with the great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together the dremainder of his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
38 Now learn a parable of the afig-tree—When its branches are yet tender, and it begins to put forth leaves, you know that summer is nigh at hand;
39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;
40 But of that day, and hour, no one aknoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.
41 But as it was in the days of aNoah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;
42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the aflood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;
43 And aknew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the alast days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other bleft;
45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;
46 And what I say unto one, I say unto all men; awatch, therefore, for you know not at what hour your Lord doth come.
47 But know this, if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to have been broken up, but would have been ready.
48 Therefore be ye also aready, for in such an hour as ye think not, the Son of Man cometh.
49 Who, then, is a afaithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
50 Blessed is that aservant whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing; and verily I say unto you, he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
51 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord adelayeth his coming,
52 And shall begin to smite his fellow-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken,
53 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
54 And shall cut him asunder, and shall appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and agnashing of teeth.
55 And thus cometh the aend of the wicked, according to the prophecy of Moses, saying: They shall be cut off from among the people; but the end of the earth is not yet, but by and by.

KJV Matthew 23:38-39 24:1-51
39. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

1. And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4. And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20. But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25. Behold, I have told you before.
26. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33. So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51. And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
King James Version of the Holy Bible
Public domain

41 posted on 06/07/2012 8:41:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

;0)


42 posted on 06/07/2012 8:41:42 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Until the 52K LDS missionaries claiming Christian faith is bogus quit, I will post LDS truth.)
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To: svcw
...it is a cult that bastardizes the word of God Almighty.

You are getting sleepy - VERY sleepy....


 
THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 16
 
The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
 
 
 1 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
  2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
  3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
  4 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
  5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
  6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
  7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
  8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
  9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
  10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
  11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
  12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
  13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.
  14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the aRed Sea.
  15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
  16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
  17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
  18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
  19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
  20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did amurmur against the Lord.
  21 Now  it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
  22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto acomplaining against the Lord their God.
  23 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
  24 And it came to pass that he did ainquire of the Lord, for they had bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
  25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
  26 And it came to pass  that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
  27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
  28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
  29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
  30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
  31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
  32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
  33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
  34 And it came to pass that aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called bNahom.
  35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
  36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to areturn again to Jerusalem.
  37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
  38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman bstir up their hearts to canger.
  39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.


43 posted on 06/07/2012 8:42:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Notwithstanding
As our founders intended and exhorted, I want people of faith to serve as President...

Faith is NOTHING minus who that faith in placed in...

IOW, a Satanist is part of "people of faith"...

44 posted on 06/07/2012 8:44:44 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god f rom Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: svcw
Not supporting Romney IS NOT the same as voting for BHO.
It is not only an ignorant premise it is just plain stupid

well yeah...it is the same...in as much, as it has the same effect.
and I could say that your premise is stupid, but we here are suppose to avoid personal attacks....but I guess you feel that you are above that.

45 posted on 06/07/2012 8:45:06 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: SoConPubbie
Obama and Medvedev:

According to a transcript of the recorded remarks carried by ABC News, Mr Obama told his Russian counterpart: “On all these issues, but particularly missile defence, this, this can be solved but it's important for him to give me space.”

Mr Medvedev responded: “Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you.”

Mr Obama then said: “This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility.”

Mr Medvedev replied: “I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir.”

46 posted on 06/07/2012 8:49:08 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Elsie

47 posted on 06/07/2012 8:50:08 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: SZonian

As per our exchange begun last evening on another thread, notice if you will how the anti-romney responses are framed. Yes, vaquero raised the political specter without prompting, but notice the vitriolic posts that have ensued and from which posters more than delighted to blend the opposition to the cult of LDSinc with the political question. When folks are quick to impugn the convictions of others over the political reasoning they privately use, patterns start to emerge. The enemy media will exploit this issue to whatever degree We The People allow them to exploit it, eventually working to cause the mormon vote to slink away from the Republican brand and drag a significant number of Catholic voters with them. Attacking with vitriol plays right into the hands of the DNC operatives being paid to smear conservatives, smear any opposition to Barry Soetoro, andmaintain the deep divisions being opened in Aemrican society.


48 posted on 06/07/2012 8:50:52 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Vaquero

Telling me that my non support of that liberal called Romney is the same as voting for BHO, is personal.
I said the premise is stupid, that is not personal unless you thought I was talking about you which would be on you not me.
You want to support a pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, pro-man made global warming, pro-government mandates, pro-government health care, pro-bigger government guy be my guest, I will not.


49 posted on 06/07/2012 8:54:20 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Vaquero; svcw
Making the thread "about" individual Freepers is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

50 posted on 06/07/2012 9:34:52 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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