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Posted on 06/03/2012 1:47:18 PM PDT by Salvation
Amen, David!
Catholic Ping!
Oh boy. This thread is going to get ugly.
And we will see who makes it ugly.
God Bless and WELCOME Home!
“Also, as a Protestant, whether you’re a minister or lay person, you are free to marry and divorce any number of times.”
Unlike the Catholic church which simply annuls your marriage, pretends it never happened, and makes your children bastards (see Ted Kennedy).
strawman alert, strawman alert....
I don’t think you know what you are talking about.
history is the key though...even today, when we live in times that politically charged...we true american conservatives can and do, refer the the countries founding fathers, their documents and what they believed in a what actions they took...no one with any real sense, argues against that...
but then, the same applies to the church fathers, who lived and breathed life into the church, by their words, thoughts, and deeds, their adherence to the three legged stool of the the word, sacred tradition and the teach church....
some folks refuse to see it..or do, and refuse to acknowledge the historicity stands out and proves the catholic church is the one Jesus created....much to their own loss...despite their brave words...that usually just entail some version of “i just need the bible, jesus and me”...
Maybe we all missed the apostles veneration and teaching about Mary or something.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
my friend asked me if catholics believe in Christ. i was speechless. it was then i realized how misinformed the main stream non catholic knew of my religion. wow. just wow .
Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.
Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
sanctorum communionem;
remissionem peccatorum;
carnis resurrectionem;
vitam aeternam. Amen.
In English:
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen
So Mary is now one of the apostles? Did you not understand the statement?
Nothing against the Catholic Church, but I am more interested in picking up the Bible to find out what it really teaches.
Apparently the Catholic church isn't doing so well on getting the message out.
Have you read ANY of the Early Church Fathers (from a Catholic source, of course?)
It’s there, believe me, please.
And the divorce rate among Catholics is how much better than average?
Let me encourage you to also pick up the Catechism. A lot of fact in there.
Why doesn't the Bible have the Gospel of Thomas, or the Gospel of Mary, or the Gospel of Judas, or the Didache, or . . . ?
Because the Bishops, the successors of the Apostles, declared which books would be put together to form the Bible. They did this in the 4th century.
Go ahead and take a look at the Catechism. It's filled with Biblical references and footnotes, in fact, it's mostly Scripture.
Now why would you want to do that? Dontcha know that we unwashed are not capable of understanding it? It has to be interpreted for us.
Like secular Jews, there are "catholics" that never go to Mass, never read the Bible, never practice any religion, but still self-identify as "catholic" because their parents, grandparents, etc. were Catholic. Like secular Jews, they worship the State.
They skew the heck out of the statistics. If your survey asks the simple question "how many times have you attended Mass in the last year?" and count only the folks that go twice a month or more, you get a whole different picture. Not only on divorce, but on support for Obama, Obamacare, etc.
Even Martin Luther decided it was a dumb idea for "every milkmaid to interpret Scripture".
It's usually harmless, but occasionally you get something like the Episcopalians. They insist that their interpretations of Scripture are inspired by the Holy Spirit . . . and how exactly is one to say otherwise?
Depends on whether or not they’re being counted to tell us that the Catholic church is the biggest church in the world with 1.2 billion strong.
Virtually every Catholic I know, am related to, and have worked with, has fallen into the liberal, Democrat category and most ARE the ones who go to church more than once a week, observe all the holy days, etc.
There is simply no overall correlation between church attendance and participation in parish life and conservatism. Yes, I have met a few conservative Catholics, but precious few.
Like secular Jews, there are "catholics" that never go to Mass, never read the Bible, never practice any religion, but still self-identify as "catholic" because their parents, grandparents, etc. were Catholic. Like secular Jews, they worship the State.
They skew the heck out of the statistics. If your survey asks the simple question "how many times have you attended Mass in the last year?" and count only the folks that go twice a month or more, you get a whole different picture. Not only on divorce, but on support for Obama, Obamacare, etc.
Then the same standard ought to be applied to Protestants and Evangelicals.
But Protestants are not cut that same kind of slack by Catholics on this board. On the contrary, we are told that the reason any former Catholic has left the Catholic faith is due to moral failure in our private lives and just so that they can divorce and remarry freely.
And I am not the only former Catholic who has been told that by Catholics.
If you look at professionally conducted surveys that screen Catholics as noted, you will see exactly the results described.
I think younger Catholics (including young priests) are the ones that will surprise you as both orthodox Catholics and very conservative politically.
No honest Catholic who's attending a parish pastored by a faithful priest (as opposed to a hireling shepherd like Fr. Pfleger) can support Obama at this point. Period. End of story. The bishops are waking up to this fact at the moment.
And the exact thing can be applied to Catholics. I grew up in a HEAVILY Catholic area. I grew up in a Catholic family, had relatives who were/are priests and nuns. I went to school with and worked with Catholics who by all that FRoman Catholics say ought to be conservative. They are NOT.
They vote liberal and democrat, knowing FULL WELL the dems stand on abortion.
When we (non-Catholics) at work asked the Catholics why they voted democrat with the abortion issue, their response? *Because the Democrats are for the poor."
And these are faithfully practicing Catholics, active in their parishes. Anecdote or not, this is what grassroots Catholics think like and live like.
And there are plenty of other former Catholics from other areas of the country who concur.
And of course, the charges made by Catholics on this board are also for the most part anecdotal.
**88And of course, the charges made by Catholics on this board are also for the most part anecdotal.**
Are you into mind-reading again?
You just had to go and say that, didn't you?
Cheers!
And if the expose Rome then they are dismissed as having a bad motive.
Just curious....from whom did you learn the Bible?
No one has ever come to knowledge of Scripture without someone leading them to it, someone who translated it into their language and someone who has studied the original language.
It is quite evident that merely reading the Holy Book is not enough for some to know the truth of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Think I’m wrong?
Then why do “Bible” churches differ on so much?
The Catholic Church is the church of the Bible. It is her book written by her early leaders through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Who better to understand the complexities within it that are used to confound and confuse?
I truly mean no disrespect to Protestants. I know that they are Christian believers and want only to follow Christ. The Catechism does not replace or cancel out the Bible, it is the theology of the Church which is the study of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and their relationship to us and ours to them.
Yes, another one of the incessant threads preaching a Church, that of asserting Rome as the One True Church all are to submit to, and denigrating all others as being deficient, in faith, while excluding that one could leave Rome due to objective seeking, and due to spiritual deficiency in Rome;
And reiterating the same old refuted RC polemics, ultimately resting on Rome infallible defining that she is infallible, then complaining when such Catholic exaltation draws fire, and dismissing reproof as due to ill motive.
Not as much as the Catholics who tell me that I left the Catholic church for moral failure or that I wanted to get a divorce, not considering that I left the Catholic church well before I got married.
I didn’t ask you about your marriage. I was talking about your statement of “anecdotal.”
Most of the Catholics here tend to back up their statements with Scripture not stories.
Why are you saying we post anecdotes?
Or have you never heard of witnessing?
Where are you getting these ideas about the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church has been here for over 2000 years.
I’m not dense, it just I really am curious about where you get such false information. Or is that just your opinion? If it is your opinion, then why do you not post it as such with an “I” statement?
When you see that happen, let me know. I'd like to see something besides the CCC, various and sundry mystics, prophets, and church fathers.
It is that supposed history which has convinced me beyond any doubt that the Roman church doesn't have a leg to stand on.
You know, it is just the usual suspects who make it ugly and I would refuse to respond to them. If there is a real question, not posed by the usual suspects then I’d answer but answering the constant haranging by the usual suspects just seems so much like speaking to evil.
I just bite my tongue and pray.
Are you familiar with some of the Saints who were taught by the Apostlels? Those would be the books referred to here.
Are you familiar with some of the Saints who were taught by the Apostles? Those would be the books referred to here.
This was in today’s reading:
Mt 28:19-20 - I am with you all days
All of these supposed Protestant converts to your religion not only use the same form letter to record their testimony, but there’s never a single mention of one finding your religion in the bible, the written words of God...
They end up accepting what your religion says about itself while ignoring what God would tell them, if only they would look, in the scriptures...
As I see it, people looking for God will go to God’s own words...People seeking a religion will go to the religion...
I was talking about the accusation about mind-reading, not about backing up statements.
Why’d you change the subject?
I realize that - and yes, I am quite familiar with all of the early works.
Is the Catholic source different than, say, a Protestant source???
Now how did I know which direction this thread would go? I must be psychotic.
Does that include Joshua, Judges, Jeremiah, etc? Does that include all the apostasy of the nation of Israel? How about the apostasy of the churches of Revelation? The Bible is not a faltering picture of man, the nation of Israel or the church in either the Old or New Testament.
In truth the Catholic Church has abandoned the real meaning of the inspiration of the scriptures. If there is any doubt then I would call attention to at least this Catechism (which I just happen to have open):
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