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Mormonism: A Latter Day Deception
Mormon Deception.org ^ | Martin Wishnatsky

Posted on 04/26/2012 1:32:13 PM PDT by greyfoxx39

What the world calls "Mormonism" will rule every nation.
God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it.

Chief Apostle Orson Hyde
Journal of Discourses, VII, 48-53

Mormonism is neither a fraternal order nor a religious association: it is a kingdom, the kingdom of God. In the words of Joseph F. Smith, sixth Prophet of the Church:

The greatest event that has ever occurred in the world, since the resurrection of the Son of God from the tomb and his ascension on high, was the coming of the Father and the Son to that boy Joseph Smith, to prepare the way for the laying of the foundation of his kingdom — not the kingdom of man — never more to cease nor to be overturned.

The kingdom "never more to cease nor to be overturned" is the messianic kingdom foreseen in the second chapter of the Book of Daniel:

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

Stated Church historian B.H. Roberts:

We are warranted in the belief, however, that it will be a tangible, bona fide government of God on earth, consisting of a king; subordinate officers; laws; subjects; and the whole earth for its territory - for its dominion.

History of the Church, Vol. I, Intro. p. xxxvi. The Mormons equate this kingdom as well with the words of Revelation 11:15: "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ: and He shall reign forever and ever."

"The kingdom is organized," wrote Brigham Young in 1844, "and although as yet no bigger than a grain of mustard seed, the little plant is in a flourishing condition and our prospects brighter than ever." Id., Vol. VII, p.381—Note. Few Americans comprehended the magnitude of the political expectations of the Mormons. "As was observed by Brother Pratt, that kingdom is actually organized and the inhabitants of the earth do not know it," stated Brigham Young on July 8,1855. "If this people know anything about it, all right; it is organized preparatory to taking effect in the due time of the Lord, and in the manner that shall please him." Id.

Joseph Smith, capitalizing on the fervor for primitive Christianity that animated the American frontier in the 1820's and 1830's, claimed that Jesus Christ Himself had chosen him to restore His original ceremonies, build up a Church to greet Him at the Second Coming, and rule the earth during the Millennium. "Flee the wrath to come" and "gather to Zion" were the watchwords of Mormon missionaries in the early days. "The missionary was confident the end of the world was hourly approaching," wrote one observer, "that soon the earth and all therein, except such as embraced Mormonism, would be destroyed, and his benevolence made him use extraordinary exertions to bring the human race within the pale that he assured them could alone save them from impending destruction." William White Smith, The Prophets (1855).

Although the Mormons argue that the church of God will be distinct from the government of God during the Millennium, this is true only in the sense that the communist party of the Soviet Union was different from the government of Russia after the revolution of 1917. Brigham Young did say that the "kingdom grows out of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but it is not the church." He also said, however, that "no one can draw the line between the government of God and the government of the children of men." History of the Church, Vol. VII, p.382; April 9, 1844. In fact, although non-Mormons may participate in the rulership of the millennial kingdom, the Mormon priesthood will control its organization and administration. The kingdom of God and the church of God will both be run by the Mormon Church - under the direction of Christ, who will pass freely back and forth "through the veil" during this period.

"What I mean by the kingdom of God," wrote Joseph F. Smith in October, 1906, "is the organization of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, over which the Son of God presides, and not man. That is what I mean." On another occasion he said, "I know that this is the kingdom of God and that God is at the helm." It is such claims that inspired Apostle Parley Pratt to say of Joseph Smith: "His work will live to endless ages. Unnumbered millions yet unborn will mention his name with honor." Grieving at the blindness of humanity in failing to recognize the nascent kingdom in their midst, Apostle Ezra Taft Benson wrote in 1948: "The history of humanity has, to a large extent, been one of groping blindly in the dark, fearing for the future and yet resisting the guiding hand of inspired men who would willingly lead mankind in the path of safety." Forward to W. Cleon Skousen, Prophecy and Modern Times (1948). At the head of the path stands Joseph Smith, holder of the keys of salvation — "keys which will unlock the door into the kingdom of God to every man who is worthy to enter and which will close that door against every soul that will not obey the law of God." It can hardly be expected that Christ will allow the governance of His kingdom to rest in the hands of those who refuse to acknowledge His chosen medium of salvation. "No man or woman in this dispensation," declared Brigham Young, "will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith." Journal of Discourses 7:289.

Well known and often cited within the church is the utterance of Joseph Smith that "the day will come when the Constitution of the United States hangs by a thread — and will be saved only by the elders of the Church." One student of Mormonism phrased this expectation somewhat differently: "They are promising their followers," wrote Bruce Kinney in 1912, "that they will in time control things politically in the United States." Mormonism: the Islam of America. Mormon political activity is rooted in the assumption that the day is coming when the American political system will collapse and the hierarchical apparatus of the Mormon Church will take its place. The Mormon Church, in this sense, is a shadow government — like the ayatollahs of Iran — only awaiting the Biblically-predicted chaos that shall sweep away American democracy and install Mormon theocracy in its place — to reign forever, "never more to be overturned." A commonly-cited scenario envisions the inevitable degeneration of the godless American polity into the anarchy envisioned by Christ in his discourse on the Mount of Olivet: "Nation shall rise up against nation and kingdom against kingdom . . . . Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents and cause them to be put to death." Mark 13:8, 12.

Joseph Smith added his own personal vision to this prophecy: "I saw men hunting the lives of their own sons, and brother murdering brother, women killing their own daughters, and daughters seeking the lives of their mothers."

The principle of "gathering to Zion as God pours out His wrath" is fundamental to Mormonism. Current policy is that Mormons should stay in their own localities, not migrate to Salt Lake City, but "build up Zion" where they live. When the time comes, however, the Prophet shall summon all Mormons everywhere to gather in to Salt Lake City for shelter while the Great Anarchy sweeps the globe. After the Great Wrath, Christ Himself shall return, appearing first in a Mormon Temple in Independence, Missouri on a plot of ground designated by Joseph Smith for this purpose. This Temple shall be the centerpiece of a holy city, the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21, which shall surround it and become the new capital of Mormonism. From it the world shall be ruled as the Mormons who fled to Salt Lake City for protection return to their hometowns and home lands as rulers and organizers of the new and everlasting theocratic kingdom. Although Christ will also appear in Jerusalem to organize the repentant and worshipful Jews into the Millennial Kingdom, the real seat of world government will be the New Jerusalem in Missouri. The two capitals will be formally co-equal, but the New Jerusalem will be the source of power, much as the Disney Corporation is to Disneyland. The new Jewish kingdom will require instruction, guidance and ultimately subordination to the Mormon authorities, for he who receives authority from another is subservient to the giver of that authority. The Jews can only receive the authentic priesthood of God from the Mormons, and therefore, must be beholden and obedient to them.

Yes, the messianic kingdom described by Isaiah is already here in embryo in Utah; the Jews shall be part of it - indeed, it cannot achieve its fullness until they do — but they will not rule it. That question was decided in 1820 when Christ appeared to Joseph Smith and gave him the Keys of the Millennium. In the 1830's one dramatic day Moses and Elijah also came to visit and invested the Prophet Joseph with their authority as well. "And it shall come to pass in the last days," reads Isaiah 2:2, "that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it." In the annotated Mormon edition of the Bible, the mountains here are the Rocky Mountains and "the Lord's house" is the Salt Lake Temple. "For out of Zion shall go forth the law" continues Isaiah, supposedly referring to the Mormon capital, "and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem," the Jewish capital.

The Mormons have quite a message for Messianic Jews — quite a message — and someday, no doubt, if they get their hands on the levers of power, they will attempt to deliver it — first as protectors of the Jews and then as their rulers.

Before the Church became a national institution and began to soften and obscure its publicly-displayed doctrines, the inevitable consolidation of all earthly power into the hands of the Mormon authorities was clearly understood. "The understanding," related Bishop Cahoon in his testimony, "was that God had established His Kingdom upon the earth, and the Mormon Church was the Kingdom of God, and all that belonged to the Mormon Church were expected to yield allegiance to that church, to that Kingdom alone, and the highest allegiance was to the Mormon Church — the Kingdom of God." An oath administered in the endowment ceremony at that time committed the priesthood to "avenge the blood of the prophets" and teach this doctrine to their children and their children's children. The Church "taught," testified Bishop Cahoon, "that this government would be overthrown, and the Kingdom of God be established on its ruins . . . . They didn't care much about the government of the United States when they had a kingdom." The comparable oath that I took in the Mormon Temple in Washington, D.C., in August, 1981 had no political overtones but did commit me to pledge all my time talent and treasure to the upbuilding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Such an oath does not leave much room for any other loyalty.

The official establishment of the government of God as distinct from the government of the Church took place in 1844 when Joseph Smith organized a secret Council of Fifty as the ruling politburo of the kingdom of God. This council encompassed non-Mormons, including Joseph Jackson, who, by his own report, was offered $3,000 by the Prophet to kill the governor of Missouri. In the days before the authority of the United States government became effective in Utah, the Council of Fifty, according to church historians Leonard J. Arrington and Davis Bitton, "began deliberations on the nature of civil government to be established in the valley." Having ruled the Salt Lake valley directly through the church, Brigham Young and his associates now decided to establish a civil government subsidiary, nominally independent of the church, called the State of Deseret. On March 8,1849, three days after the opening of the constitutional convention, a standard state constitution of the time was adopted — and an election scheduled for two months later to select officers for the new state. Ballots, however, were actually cast four days later on March 12,1849 — somewhat limiting the amount of campaigning any independent candidate might undertake. Brigham Young won the office of governor and Heber C. Kimball chief justice, both winning 100% of the ballots cast for their respective offices. The election of the temporal government of the Kingdom of God had as much resemblance to a free election as the elections conducted by the governments of Eastern Europe in 1946. This procedure was deliberate. "Every government lays the foundation of its own downfall," declared Brigham Young in 1872, "when it permits what are called democratic elections." "Remember," said the church authority who interviewed me for my worthiness to become a Mormon priest, "the Church is a theocracy, not a democracy." Any government the church creates, it creates in its own image.

All power lies with the Prophet who is God's representative on earth; his word is law. As the Prophet is to the Church, so the Bishop is to the local ward. Unlike the rabbi of a Jewish congregation, who is dependent upon the favor of the synagogue for his position, the Bishop is chosen and installed solely by his ecclesiastical superiors. The notion of "division" or "separation" of powers is anathema to Mormonism.

The members of the ward are sternly enjoined to "sustain the authorities" for this is the "only true" church of God and the officers of it God's chosen — selected by "inspiration" after "prayerful consideration," and installed by the laying on of hands. To dispute the church authorities is to defy God. And who would do that?

Thus, it is not surprising that, given the occasion and the opportunity, the Mormon hierarchy will create a civil government in the image of their church government — elections by acclamation and zealous obedience the essence of virtue. The popularity of military careers for Mormon youth is a direct outgrowth of the inculcation of these principles. That the Mormons fully expect to rule the United States and the world as well one day is, of course, a political hallucination that could never happen. If so, however, it may be expected that they will formally reverence the U.S. Constitution while simultaneously abolishing the division of powers, based on mistrust of all unchecked human authority, that underlies it. A portion of Bishop Cahoon's testimony, given in 1889, expresses the sentiments that still reign in the minds of the Mormon authorities:

Q. Did they ever teach you anything in regard to the overthrowing of the Constitution of the United States, did you ever hear that at all?

A. The Constitution of the United States would be, perhaps, an after consideration; after the government was overthrown the leaders of the Mormon Church would reform that document to suit themselves.

Q. Did you ever hear them say that the document needed reforming?

A. O, yes.

Q. You never heard it taught that that was a Divine Document?

A. O, yes, they taught that it was an inspired document, but that it would be better - eventually it would be better.

Q. Who was going to better it?

A. The priesthood of the Mormon Church.

Q. When?

A. Well, when they got it in their hands.

Q. When was that going to be?

A. Well, directly, it has been put off from time to time. They say it is pretty near now.

Q. State when and where you heard it.

A. Heard it all the while, ever since I was in the church.

To obscure the fundamental incompatibility of Mormon doctrine with democratic politics, Brigham Young made the remarkable statement: "The Constitution and laws of the United States resemble a theocracy more closely than any government now on earth." Journal of Discourses 6:342. He came slightly closer to the truth in the following statement:

Few, if any, understand what a theocratic government is. In every sense of the word, it is a republican government, and differs but little in form from our National, State, and Territorial Governments; but its subjects will recognize the will and dictation of the Almighty . . . .

Id.

There is no room for legitimate disagreement in Mormonism. Anyone who questions church practices is considered to have lost his faith in revealed truth. Such an individual must speedily repent and humble himself, begging forgiveness or he will be excommunicated. A man named Morris had the effrontery to establish his own mini-Mormonism in Utah in the days of Brigham Young, claiming to receive instructions from God as did the Mormon prophet. Brigham sent his "avenger" on horseback and shot the fledgling prophet dead in broad daylight in the presence of his followers. John Taylor, successor to Brigham Young as Prophet, made it clear that the Mormons envision no separation of church and state once they take power.

Was the kingdom that the Prophets talked about, that should be set up in the latter times, going to be a Church? Yes. And a state? Yes, it was going to be both Church and State, to rule both temporarily (sic) and spiritually.

When Utah became a state and began to elect Senators and Congressmen, some question arose as to whether a Mormon Senator would consider himself bound by his oath to support the Constitution and laws of the United States, or whether his endowment oaths of supreme loyalty to the Church would prevail. John Taylor answered as follows:

It may be asked, How can we live under the dominion and laws of the United States and be subjects of another kingdom? Because the kingdom of God is higher, and its laws are so much more exalted than those of any other nation, that it is the easiest thing in life for a servant of God to keep any of their laws and, as I have said before, this we have uniformly done.

Journal of Discourses 6:24. The Mormon leadership fully expect the American government to collapse as a prelude to their assumption of power on the American continent. "When the Lord commands it through his living prophets," writes a BYU faculty member in the June, 1976 Ensign, "the New Jerusalem will become the capital city . . . ." The Constitution will then become the responsibility of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. "It is not wise to sit by and think that the protection of the Constitution is the problem of someone else at some other time," warns the Ensign. "Our commission to save the Constitution is, like salvation, a continuing task." Should the Mormon apparatus ever come to power in the United States during a period of inner turmoil, this country will become a white tyranny, the ecclesiastical mirror image of communism. "And this is the redemption of Zion," said Joseph Smith in 1841, "when the saints shall have redeemed that government and reinstated it in all its purity and glory."

The Mormons will come as saviors of the constitution, firm-willed virtuous patriots full of love for God and country. Their ecclesiastical autocracy will come wrapped in the evocative symbolism of constitutional purification.

But, of course, it could never happen here. Joseph Smith was but twenty-five years of age, full of the fire of youth, when he donned the mantle of prophethood: Brigham Young was forty-seven. There has not been a prophet under the age of sixty since. The Church is a mature businesslike institution that discourages excessive fanaticism. Its doctrines have been softened and blended to have as wide an appeal as possible. Tradition since World War II has chosen the oldest apostle for the office of Prophet. Of the five prophets since 1945, four were in their mid-seventies when chosen and the fifth over ninety. The current Prophet, Spencer W. Kimball, is eighty-seven: his two counsellors are eighty-four and eighty-five. The Church in many of its activities today displays a silly farcical spirit — a spirit I always found offensive but now view as inherent in a company of religious play actors. Gordon B. Hinckley, who was recently elevated from the Council of the Twelve Apostles to be a third counsellor to the Prophet, was active in the 1970's as an adviser to the Public Communications Department — the Church's propaganda agency. [In 1995, Hinckley became the 15th President and Prophet of the Church.] He worked, in particular, on the "subject content" for the Washington, D.C. Visitor's Center, which is attached to the Temple.

In the Washington center, life-size mannequins representing Isaiah, Nephi, Joseph Smith, and other prophets will speak their messages from the scriptures. With translucent masks and hidden rear projection, the figures will speak as living oracles.

Ensign, August, 1974.

One does not associate such Disneyland techniques with traditional religious solemnity. They remind one more of Revelation, Chapter 13: "And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed." Whether the Wizards of Mormon will one day install a humanoid mannequin as prophet is beyond my power to foresee. Whether or not a young ambitious technocrat prophet will be able to simulate the second coming of Christ and gather an ocean of white-robed believers to the templed Missouri hills to witness the inauguration of the Millennium is also beyond my power of prediction. A visit to the Hill Cumorah pageant staged every summer in Palmyra, New York to commemorate and re-enact Joseph Smith's discovery of the golden plates from which he translated the Book of Mormon will keep interested observers of the Millennial Kingdom up to date on the state of the art in religious pyrotechnics, while we wait patiently for the Mormon "rendezvous with our Constitution's destiny." Ensign, June, 1976.



TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: antichristian; inman; lieslieslies; mormon; romney
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From the article: "The Mormons will come as saviors of the constitution, firm-willed virtuous patriots full of love for God and country. Their ecclesiastical autocracy will come wrapped in the evocative symbolism of constitutional purification."

For those who have neighbors, friends, family or acquaintances whose mormonism they defend on FR, some thought should be given to the above noted words of mormon leaders through the past 180 years.

1 posted on 04/26/2012 1:32:25 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: greyfoxx39
Not anywhere close to the evil of Mad Mo'

Besides, the US Senate is already under Mormon Control.

2 posted on 04/26/2012 1:35:21 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: greyfoxx39

What is their stand on gay marriage and ordination of gay clergy?


3 posted on 04/26/2012 1:35:49 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Paladin2

I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.
- Barack Hussein Obama


4 posted on 04/26/2012 1:37:12 PM PDT by donna (...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way... -Mitt Romney)
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To: Bryanw92

Mormons were the main financial supporters of California’s Prop. 8, defining marriage as between one man and one woman.


5 posted on 04/26/2012 1:38:45 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: greyfoxx39

“The father and son “, came to the boy Joseph Smith? Which one of the fourteen visions was that?


6 posted on 04/26/2012 1:39:02 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: donna
"Zer0 is the Light."

-Mad MO, the 1st Wookie.

7 posted on 04/26/2012 1:39:21 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: donna

>>I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth. - Barack Hussein Obama

I know leftist pastors from mainline Christian churches who say the same thing. They believe that the Kingdom of God is fulfilled when the governments redistribute all the world’s wealth “fairly”.


8 posted on 04/26/2012 1:40:12 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Deb
Mormons were the main financial supporters of California’s Prop. 8, defining marriage as between one man and one woman.

Yes. They were the only ones with the gonads to go up against these evil fascists in California. Very impressive stand.

9 posted on 04/26/2012 1:42:16 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: greyfoxx39

Self Ping for later

(I dissagree with starting this up again. It’s so 2009.)


10 posted on 04/26/2012 1:43:48 PM PDT by Tenacious 1 (With regards to the GOP: I am prodisestablishmentarianistic!)
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To: GOP Poet
"They were the only ones with the gonads"

Hardly the only ones.

11 posted on 04/26/2012 1:44:33 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: All
Did any of you actually READ the article before jumping in to misdirect and/or defend mormism?
12 posted on 04/26/2012 1:45:01 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I do not expect the (FR) house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided-Jim Robinson)
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To: Bryanw92

lds don’t have “clergy”, they have unpaid untrained leaders. SLC publicly supported the defeat of Prop 8 in Califonrnia, their pro-homosexual measures in Utah leads one to think they have conflicting views on the subject.
I have two homosexual lds cousins who have long term partners. One was asked to change or leave, the other has not been told to leave even though he is “out” big time.


13 posted on 04/26/2012 1:45:18 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Bryanw92

Mormons oppose gay marriage and have no professional clergy other than a few full timers who are at the very top of the leadership ladder. Other than that it’s a lay clergy.


14 posted on 04/26/2012 1:45:42 PM PDT by MissesBush (The Fourth Estate has Become a Fifth Column)
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To: GOP Poet

Your statement is simply untrue.
lds were the only ones who broadcast their involvement.


15 posted on 04/26/2012 1:48:46 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: greyfoxx39

Some choice. It’s between muslim communist and a Mormon socialist. We’re so screwed.


16 posted on 04/26/2012 1:51:39 PM PDT by Bizhvywt
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To: Tenacious 1
(I dissagree with starting this up again. It’s so 2009.)

Well, hang on to your dissatisfaction...from now until November the Obama campaign will fill the MSM with articles just like this.

All the ABO voters on FR won't be enough to stem the tide. The epitome of stupidity...pushing a member of a proven racist sect into the nomination to run against a black man.

17 posted on 04/26/2012 1:53:15 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: greyfoxx39

I did. I’m not defending mormonism. I’m defending Mormons because they are doing something positive and not just sitting in their churches wondering why attendance is declining. My own denomination is in General Conference right now, debating the gay marriage and gay clergy issue for the 10th time in 40 years!

It gets voted down every 4 years, and the gays go crazy and the leadership wimps out and decide to “study” it and look at it again in 4 years. When the gay lobby finally wins, the issue will be closed forever and another great Christian denomination will be apostate.

I’m not a Mormon, but I am happy to see someone stand for something. I’d rather live in a Mormon theocracy than a Muslim theocracy or atheist anti-theocracy.


18 posted on 04/26/2012 1:55:49 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Bryanw92
I’d rather live in a Mormon theocracy than a Muslim theocracy or atheist anti-theocracy.

Hmmm...I'd rather live in a Constitutional Republic that isn't highjacked by any anti-Christian cult, and this nomination has been highjacked by Romney and his RINO buddies.

19 posted on 04/26/2012 2:01:34 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
As a group yes they were, They were the biggest financial drivers fighting against prop 8 and the liberals were trying very hard to eviscerate them after wards to no avail. Yes they were the only one with visible gonads.The reaction afterward from the left tells anyone what they need to know about the effectiveness of Mormons commitment. They went after the Mormons as a group. Period. The only other thing they did was publish small contributors names with home addresses on the web.
20 posted on 04/26/2012 2:01:50 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: greyfoxx39

OK, so I don’t plan on converting to the Church of Latter Day Saints.

Now tell me, which is worse as POTUS, a Mormon, a Muslim, or an athiest.


21 posted on 04/26/2012 2:03:11 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: svcw

Sadly you are wrong. The Mormons were the primary backer of Prop 8.


22 posted on 04/26/2012 2:04:18 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: greyfoxx39
.


but ... but ... "Mitt Romney is so electable"

just echoing the remarks of Todd Schnitt ... Tampa radio host ...

/sarcasm-off


Obama wants to run against Mitt "At Bain Capital I used to LOVE to fire people ... as I amassed my $ 250 million family fortune, while I continued my religious studies that taught me that Satan is Jesus's brother and that someday I will be a DIVINE GOD who will RULE his own PLANET" Romney ...

so bad, Obama's wee-wee'ed his Kenyan pants ...


.
23 posted on 04/26/2012 2:04:47 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin in 2012 !)
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To: SampleMan
Now tell me, which is worse as POTUS, a Mormon, a Muslim, or an athiest.

Easy....an athiest. I've lived in areas controlled by both mormons and now a muslim. I believe that several of the Founding Fathers were Deists.

Deism: The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.

I'd prefer a Christian.

24 posted on 04/26/2012 2:10:32 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: greyfoxx39

I did laborioulsy read your article.

I am not happy about Romney representing the GOP. But I am less happy about what impact another 4 years of Obama will have on me, my kids, their kids and the union of states in the future.

I’ll avoid commenting on my thoughts about the origins of LDS/Mormons. Instead, let’s focus on the general character of the people today. As a group, I dismiss them as a threat to our nation politically and socially. They tend to have strong values and be of good moral character. Please do not drone on about polygamy here as tends to happen whenever this comes up.

His faith is not my concern unless he decides to press for laws that would abridge the free practice of religion (like our current president has done).

We have many reasons to be upset with Romney as our representative. I would rather this not be a subject that we add to the fire as it actually has the potential of weekening his chances to unseat the diabolical ignoramous we have in power now.

I actually do believe, whithout exageration, this could be the last honest election we have, as a United States, if Obama gets re-elected. I’m on the fence about whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing if he is re-elected.


25 posted on 04/26/2012 2:13:45 PM PDT by Tenacious 1 (With regards to the GOP: I am prodisestablishmentarianistic!)
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To: GOP Poet; aMorePerfectUnion
As a group yes they were, They were the biggest financial drivers fighting against prop 8 and the liberals were trying very hard to eviscerate them after wards to no avail. Yes they were the only one with visible gonads.

Well, it ought to be very simple to provide a link to proof of that statement. Surely there is a chart available.

Most Christian church do not have a multi-billion-dollar PR campaigm broadcasting their good deeds, day after day, after day and a lot of those donations were from non-denominational Christians.

26 posted on 04/26/2012 2:14:54 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: greyfoxx39; cva66snipe
The Church teaches that when Christ returns, and brings the Kingdom of God with Him, that His order, that is Christ's order will be established in government.

Until that time we are told to obey the laws...and im the US inparticular to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States because it is an inspired document.

There have been numerous former leaders, who have left the church and had occassion to attack it who would try and get people to believe that the church somehow is bent on "taking over" the United states and making some kind of religious government to prepare for Christ's coming and that simply is not true.

I have been in the Church for 42 years and held numerous leadership positions and no such occurance or desire or plan or hope has ever been discussed.

In fact, Ezra Taft Benson, who later became the President of the Church, wrote oft about the "Heavenly banner" of the Constitution and how he firmly believed that however tattered it may become (and it is tattered right now by leftists and progressives seeking to destroy it), that when Christ returned to this earth the US Flag would still be flying over a constitutional Republic governered according to the dictates of the US Constitution as it was inspired of God for that very purpose.

So, sorry, the idea that the LDS CHurch is bent on or planning to "take over" the US Government and re-write the constitution is a sham on its face, and shameful to all those LDS people who have spilt their blood in the defense of this nation and its constitution...and who hold that oath to the constitution sacrosanct to this day.

When Christ returns, all the world will bow at His feet and recognize Him as Lord and Savior and He will reign Himself through the Millenneum and beyond.

27 posted on 04/26/2012 2:17:48 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: GOP Poet

Read what you wrote in post 9, that statement is untrue.


28 posted on 04/26/2012 2:22:31 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: greyfoxx39

I’ve got one verse that can destroy the whole doctrine of Mormonism, or any other relgion:

Eph. 2:8-9

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.”


29 posted on 04/26/2012 2:25:14 PM PDT by JSDude1
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To: GOP Poet
The Mormons were the primary backer of Prop 8.

So, prove it. Provide evidence that comes from a non-mormon site.

30 posted on 04/26/2012 2:31:11 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: Jeff Head

When Christ comes He will be in charge period. No matter what church is on His side, He will be at the top as leader, King or whatever.

Mormon people are as good a people as I have ever had the pleasure to associate with. They are God fearing. They support the constitution and are willing to put their lives on the line for either.

If you have them for neighbors count yourself lucky.


31 posted on 04/26/2012 2:36:14 PM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: Tenacious 1; P-Marlowe; colorcountry; SZonian; reaganaut
His faith is not my concern unless he decides to press for laws that would abridge the free practice of religion.

A Romney presidency would result in the exact cronyism that is the hallmark of Obama. Money would flow into the coffers of the mormon church, as in Romney tithing over 4 million.

There are already an over abundance of mormons in the government agencies and Romney will see that it continues. Recall that Romney has NO use for the Tea Party.

If by the slimmest chance Romney would win, I'm waiting for his edict that no wine, coffee or tea be served in the WH...that ought to make for interesting state dinners with foreign leaders.

Most people have absolutely NO idea what living under mormonism is.

32 posted on 04/26/2012 2:36:44 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: greyfoxx39
I'll do you better better a quote from the Washington Post. there are also a multitude of others articles as well:

In 2008, the “gays versus religion” frame was strongly entrenched in the mentality of the American public. Much of the driving force behind Prop 8, in terms of both organization and money, came from the leadership of the Roman Catholic and Mormon churches. People of faith who were personally supportive of marriage equality didn’t speak out, or felt that their support of LGBT people would be seen as being at odds with their faith.

Also 80-90% of door knockers for Prop 8 were door knockers as well as the money that came in from the church that without it would not have seen passage of Prop 8 as it turned the public support around toward Prop 8.

33 posted on 04/26/2012 2:39:29 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: greyfoxx39
I'll do you better better a quote from the washington post. there are also a multitude of others articles as well:

In 2008, the “gays versus religion” frame was strongly entrenched in the mentality of the American public. Much of the driving force behind Prop 8, in terms of both organization and money, came from the leadership of the Roman Catholic and Mormon churches. People of faith who were personally supportive of marriage equality didn’t speak out, or felt that their support of LGBT people would be seen as being at odds with their faith.

Also 80-90% of door knockers for Prop 8 were Mormon as well as the money that came in from the Mormon church that without it would not have seen passage of Prop 8 as it turned the public support around toward Prop 8.

34 posted on 04/26/2012 2:40:50 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: JAKraig

Which of the lds gods do they fear?


35 posted on 04/26/2012 2:54:22 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: JAKraig

Agreed. He, our Savior, Jesus Christ, will be the one who rules the entire Earth.

I am LDS, and thank you for your kind words.

America at the Crossroads of History
http://www.jeffhead.com/crossroads.htm

My Witness for Christ
http://www.jeffhead.com/jlhwitness.htm


36 posted on 04/26/2012 3:01:22 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: GOP Poet
I'll do you better better a quote from the Washington Post. there are also a multitude of others articles as well.

So, post some links to these articles...

Also, you claimed all the credit for the mormon church without mentioning the Catholic church at all.

I really don't believe that Jesus is going to be keeping score the way the mormon PR firm does. He saves by grace not by works, so there is no need.

37 posted on 04/26/2012 3:04:01 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: Jeff Head
When Christ returns, all the world will bow at His feet and recognize Him as Lord and Savior and

He will reign Himself through the Millenneum and beyond.

■ “Some members of the Church have an erroneous idea that when the millennium comes all of the people are going to be swept off the earth except righteous members of the Church. That is not so. There will be millions of people, Catholics, Protestants, agnostics, Mohammedans, people of all classes, and of all beliefs, still permitted to remain upon the face of the earth, but they will be those who have lived clean lives, those who have been free from wickedness and corruption. All who belong, by virtue of their good lives, to the terrestrial order, as well as those who have kept the celestial law, will remain upon the face of the earth during the millennium.

“Eventually, however, the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters do the sea. But there will be need for the preaching of the gospel, after the millennium is brought in, until all men are either converted or pass away” (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:86–87).

“In that great change, or resurrection, which shall come to this earth, it shall be sanctified, celestialized and made a fit abode even for God the Father, who shall grace it with his presence. ( D.C. 88:19 .) Then shall the righteous, those who have become sanctified through the law of God, possess it for ever as their abode. This earth is destined to become the everlasting residence of its inhabitants who gain the glory of the celestial kingdom. It shall become in that day like the throne of God and shall shine forth with all the splendor and brightness of celestial glory in its eternal, sanctified and glorious state” (Smith, Way to Perfection, 351).

The Millennium and the Glorification of the Earth

Only temple mormons will be allowed into the celestial kingdom, All who belong, by virtue of their good lives, to the terrestrial order, as well as those who have kept the celestial law, so the rest of the world, including all Christians will be forbidden from "dwelling with God in his kingdom" according to mormon doctrine.

Jeff, you say, the idea that the LDS CHurch is bent on or planning to "take over" the US Government and re-write the constitution is a sham on its face. Mormon belief is that the mormon elders will save the Constitution. That was a well-known belief during the time I was a mormon.

I feel sympathy for the many who are misled members.

The mormon church certainly controls the state of Utah today.

38 posted on 04/26/2012 3:05:00 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The epitome of stupidity is a member of a proven racist sect running against a black man.)
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To: Bryanw92; greyfoxx39
they are doing something positive

What's positive about lying to others to deceive them into cult like practices?

What's the difference in gays also spreading their lie? Is that positive, also? Or lying is just ok for some.

I’d rather live in a Mormon theocracy than a Muslim theocracy or atheist anti-theocracy.

No one is stopping you. - See how evil works, when it enters it has others fleeing with an ABO - 'anything but' mentality right into the trap - as standards/beliefs/values be d*mned!

Christians live by God's Word, the ONLY Truth there is.

Conservatives live by/support/Our'WeThePeople'Constitution Candidate.

39 posted on 04/26/2012 3:05:31 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: GOP Poet

Thank you for the information provided by SLC lds corporation.


40 posted on 04/26/2012 3:05:32 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: presently no screen name

So, what’s your bottom line? What do you want done to Mormons? After all these threads screaming the horrors of Mormonism, what do you want?


41 posted on 04/26/2012 3:10:28 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Deb

This is the religion forum.
This is discussion on mormonism.
This is exposing mormonism, nothing else.


42 posted on 04/26/2012 3:12:17 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Bryanw92
I’d rather live in a Mormon theocracy than a Muslim theocracy or atheist anti-theocracy.

And the difference would be what? Souls would be lost regardless.

43 posted on 04/26/2012 3:13:42 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: GOP Poet
Hey. You said ONLY. They weren't the ONLY group. As such, you were wrong. Better to just admit you were wrong on the facts, than to try to justify it with obfuscation. Time to man-up, admit you were wrong and move on. That's what truth-tellers do.

"Religious organizations that supported Proposition 8 include:

Roman Catholic Church
Knights of Columbus
Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson
American Family Association
Focus on the Family
National Organization for Marriage
Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California’s largest, also endorsed the measure
The Bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition


44 posted on 04/26/2012 3:14:29 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: greyfoxx39

pretty sure you know how to use Google. The facts bare out.


45 posted on 04/26/2012 3:14:53 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

I was not wrong. Without the Mormon church Prop 8 would have lost as it didn’t have the votes or funding until they stepped in and up to the plate.


46 posted on 04/26/2012 3:16:51 PM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: greyfoxx39
He
Jesus
saves by grace not by works, so there is no need.

Not according to mormonism.

47 posted on 04/26/2012 3:18:41 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: greyfoxx39
We don't need to read it. Its always the same people, posting the same stuff day after day. We get it...you don't like Mormons. Its a cult. They're cultists. They're not Christians. They wear weird underwear.

The truth is, Mormonism turns out some incredible people. They're selfless, generous, kind and hugely moral. Every Mormon I have ever known has extraordinary character and humility.

They would never mount a neverending assault on another religion and, above all, they're all much better people than you and the others who attack them.

You should think about converting.

48 posted on 04/26/2012 3:20:49 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Jeff Head

“When Christ returns, all the world will bow at His feet and recognize Him as Lord and Savior and He will reign Himself through the Millenneum and beyond. “

Jeff, a reminder that I asked you a sincere question that perhaps you did not see. I will ask patiently again.

You refer to Christ. Are you referring to:

The Biblical Christ, eternal God, neither created nor made, but always God - The ONLY God, omnipotent over all?

- OR -

The Christ of mormonism, a created spirit-being, who later became one of 4 mormonic earth gods: Heavenly Father, Mormon Jesus, Holy Ghost, Heavenly Mother, and just one of thousands or millions or mormon gods spread across the galaxies - not one of which is omnipotent?

Which Christ are you referring to? They are mutually exclusive. One eternally God. One created. One the ONLY God. One just one of thousands or millions of gods.


49 posted on 04/26/2012 3:21:15 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: Deb

Where did you read that I was asking for anything? Where is that thought coming from? Seems like you are projecting?


50 posted on 04/26/2012 3:21:27 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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