How can you SAY this???
Decisions decisions!
Posted on 02/29/2012 6:02:58 AM PST by Colofornian
This column is in response to requests for insights into the difference between Mormonism and traditional Christianity.
I have dear friends who are Mormons. They, like most Mormons, are gracious socially, exceptional family people, and in general good citizens. As such they personally are objects of my regard.
Their faith, the Church of Latter Day Saints, better known as Mormonism, has been very much in the news as a result of a prominent member of their faith being a primary candidate for president. I would not deliberately misrepresent any person’s faith so I hope Mormons find the following to be a fair representation of their faith based on the teachings of their church. Each of these points comes from a document accepted by the Church of Latter Day Saints (hereafter noted as “the Church”) and is documented accordingly.
Space limits the ability to reveal the numerous ways the teachings of the Church differ from the Bible. Therefore, only a few will be considered. Members of the Church say they believe Jesus Christ is the Firstborn of God the Father. By that what do they mean?
They believe, “We are sons and daughters of God, and we lived in a premortal existence as His spirit children” (Doctrine and Covenants and Church History, [hereafter noted as “D&C”], p. 106).
“The fact that there is no reference to a mother in heaven either in the Bible, Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants, is not sufficient proof that no such thing as a mother did not exist there” (Answers to Gospel Questions, Joseph Smith, Jr., p. 143).
Jesus was the “Firstborn” of the Sovereign’s offsprings. Lucifer, his brother, was the second born in the morning of pre-existence, and the rest of human beings followed in this premortal existence. “We are all the spiritual children of heavenly parents.” (Eternal Marriage Student Manual, p. 259).
“The child to be born to Mary was begotten by Elohim (God).”
This is called “celestial Sireship.” (The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, p. 23)
The Church teaches there is an after life when righteous spirits carry the message of salvation to wicked spirits in hell and co-mingle. At this point those wicked spirits can repent and be freed. (Preparation for Exaltation, p. 36).
The Church teaches the Father in heaven was once a man as we are now, capable of physical death. He progressed through stages to reach the stage of “exaltation of godhood.” Humans have the power to reach godhood. When we become gods we will have jurisdiction over worlds that will be peopled by our offsprings. (Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 132).
The Church holds that “Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children” (Orson Hyde (apostle) The Judgments of God on the United States, (March 15, 1855) in Journal of Discourses, p. 210).
The following are two of the primary reasons some consider The Church of Latter Day Saints, Mormonism, a cult.
Joseph Smith, Jr. taught The Book of Mormon is more reliable than the Bible, (History of the Church, p. 4:461).
If it had not been for Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).
This column is not intended to suggest how a person should vote, but that persons may know something of the faith held by a candidate for president.
Often one’s faith has little influence on how well they govern. After all, we recently had two Southern Baptists who were not paragons of their denominational faith.
Make your determination regarding Mormonism on these their own teachings compared with the Bible. I report, you decide.
Where did I hear that?
The Rev. Dr. Nelson Price is pastor emeritus of Roswell Street Baptist Church. Contact Price at nlprice@aol.com.
From the article: The Church holds that “Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children” (Orson Hyde (apostle) The Judgments of God on the United States, (March 15, 1855) in Journal of Discourses, p. 210).
If a Roman Catholic bishop suddenly held this view -- and if the Roman Catholic church only claimed this wasn't the "official" teaching of the church...but didn't otherwise correct the teaching or say it was a false teaching...then the church would be guilty of "putting it out there" for believing...and since the Mormon church has "apostles" and "prophets" who supposedly reveal things DI-rect from the Mormon god...ya better believe that the "it's not official" line only means that "hey, it might be true."
Hyde's wife, Marinda Johnson Hyde, btw became a simultaneous wife of both Hyde and Joseph Smith...sharing a bed with both men while remaining married to Hyde.
From the article: The Church teaches the Father in heaven was once a man as we are now, capable of physical death.
Yup. Imagine that. Before the Son of God ever became a man, the Mormon god was a man who also died as a man.
Here is Joseph Smith commenting on this:
I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning tghe Gods of heaven. '...Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them.' If Abraham reasoned thus--If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly. Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)
This shows you the Mormon god is distinct from the God of the Bible.
What about Lds 20th century "apostles" on this same subject?
LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie wrote, "The Father is a glorified, perfected resurrected, exalted man who worked out his own salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg. 64).
As somebody once pointed out...Notice McConkie's use of the word "resurrected" and the phrase, "worked out his salvation." Only those who die can be resurrected, and only those who are lost need salvation.
At this point, my brothers and sisters, I think we ought to focus on what the O’Baminites believe, and what the result of their being blessed with another four years in power as high priests in the Temple of Washington DeeCee will mean for us.
Excellent post! I love how succinct the article is in reducing it to its basics. I had studied it awhile back, but forgot about a few of the details.
I agree with your assessment of the basic decency and just simple niceness of most Mormon individuals.
However, the originators of the sect were, I believe, motivated principally by greed, power hunger, and simple sexual lust. It was their good fortune to find so many submissive and gullible followers. But that doesn’t change the less than honorable motives of the founders (one of whom was the great, great grandfather of Mitt Romney).
Why not multi task?
Christians can focus on rebuking false teachings so the True Gospel can reach the lost, while also working to strengthen America through politics.
Are you more concerned with ridding Obama than with the eternal destiny of your fellow man?
If it's Romney vs. Obama...you have socialism lite (romneycare) vs. socialism heavy (obamacare) [Yeah, do tell, please 'xplain the so-called "difference"]
You have...
...Obama's paying for abortions w/taxpayer $ vs...
...Somebody expanding taxpayers regionally paying for abortions (Romneycare)...thereby creating a "stake-out" position = one who can't stop taxpayers paying for abortions nationally
[do tell, please xplain the so-called "difference"]
You have open pro-abortion Obama vs...
...pro-abortion disguised as "pro-life" (Romney) [don't forget RomneyCare & its paying for abortions & putting a Planned Parenthood person in place as a permanent member of RomneyCare's oversight board was done after Romney's so-called pro-life "conversion"...in fact, Romney even told Katie Couric in Dec 2007 'twas "OK" for parents to give up their offspring for embryonic research! My...how "pro-life" -- especially on the very issue -- embryonic research -- that he said was the "trigger" to his "pro-life conversion."...But I guess if you want the pretenses...]
[do tell us the "difference"]
You have somebody (Romney) open to allowing states to treat homosexual employees as "minorities" vs....
...Obama gradually doing the same thing @ the fed level.
(Romney's positions, btw, changed from favoring it at the fed level, to opposing it at the fed level, to now favoring it @ the state level...so who knows what his "next" position will be?)
[do 'xplain the nuanced "difference"]
You have a pagan emerging from THE most liberal denomination beholden to the powers-that-be that put him there (Obama) vs.
...a cultist beholden to the Mormon "prophet" -- a titled position that once told their followers that...
...blacks were under a "no admittance" policy to their temples & priesthood...
...& that stocking up wives was "a-ok"
...& 'twas a-ok to cover up the massacre of 120 innocent children, moms & dads and ensure that only one perpetrator would ever be brought to justice for the crimes committed by several Mormon bishops, an Lds stake president, a counselor to an Lds stake president, & about 35 - 75 other Mormons. (Of course, none of them were ever held accountable for the crimes)
On that latter matter, the Lds "prophet" also was territorial governor when that happened...a good indicator of what happens when the Mormons merge "prophethood" and political leadership under a puppet status.
Sorry...but a solid chunk of the GOP didn't become Republicans to vote for Obama lites. If we wanted candidates more liberal than 1960s' Democrats, hey, we'd join the Democrats.
If the GOP gives us Romney, it's open revolt and a call for the GOP to become to new extinct Whig party.
Just as it 'twas better to hold a funeral for the Whigs & start anew with the 1850s Republicans, it'll be better for Romney-led Republicans to be buried & a new party to emerge--The Free Republicans!
The GOP already has only 29% of all registered voters. Given that White Evangelicals were greater than 1 of 3 of ALL voters in 2010, looks to me like the GOP has stopped courting the base of its party & doesn't care if up to 1/3rd of its party walks...permanently walks.
Romney's not a viable candidate.
If you go to a high school football game only to root on one team 'cause you hate the rivals -- but know the rivals will win, anyway, 'cause the other team isn't a viable team...you're wasting your time & rooting. Oh, sure, you've upticked the attendance by a few, but it's all "Wasted Attendance Syndrome" -- thinking that a few more occupied seats would somehow make a difference in the game on the field. It won't.
He is Jewish and like many Jews they don’t get Jesus, the resurrection or Messiah thing.
They are still waiting for the Messiah.
As such, they are not steeped in the culture of Christianity and can’t see the difference between the two.
No biggie. Thejews are God’s chosen people and the Mormon’s have also co-opted the Israelites and believe they are part of the 10 lost tribes of Israel. True Story.
Facts, facts, facts.....
tsk, tsk, tsk....
Just different sides of a frog that has warts. Doesn’t matter if you turn it over, it still has warts.
What needs to be pointed out is that articles like this will regularly show up in the media if Romney is the candidate. The ignorant general public will become all too familiar with what Mormons believe and will desert Romney in droves. And I can’t say I would blame them.
The MORMON religious Organization has Taught that stuff; has Lived that stuff and has voluminous records of that stuff; but it was in the past, and it does NOT get drug out for the world (or new members) to see unless we ANTIs (Christians who actually know what is in the bible) bring it up.
MORMONism can claim all day long that this stuff is no longer applicable; but they CANNOT show any LATER writing from Headquarters that DENOUNCES, Repudiates or Changes the old ways.
How can you SAY this???
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHICHAPTER 224 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
Or even HERE:
1 Timothy 3:2-3
2. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3. not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.Titus 1:6
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTSSECTION 13251–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
58 Now, as touching the law of the apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.
59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit dsin, and I will justify him.
60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.
61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
62 And if he have aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be bglorified.
64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.
65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take aHagar to wife.
66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.
I'd just HATE to be an SLC mormon and have THIS threat hanging over me!!!
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
St. Pete; your books are WRONG!!!
Didn't you just read that I was a fairly decent fellow and simply nice to all of my neighbors?
Oprah reassured me all the time that this would be quite sufficient.
Keep your horses and chariots!
I will rely on the LORD!
It ain’t easy; bein’ green!
Whoa!
Turn down the volume; ELSIE!
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