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Joseph Smith: a witness of Christ [LDS Open - Merry Smithmas!]
Mormontimes.com ^ | Dec 18, 2010 | R. Scott Lloyd

Posted on 12/20/2010 8:46:50 AM PST by T Minus Four

On Dec. 23, 1805, as much of the world was preparing to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, another baby boy was born. Like Jesus, this 19th century baby came forth in humble circumstances and in an obscure village.

Though the world didn't know it at the time, the birth of Joseph Smith Jr. would initiate what is arguably the greatest and most far-reaching chain of events in the history of Christianity since the Savior's mortal ministry itself.

That infant would grow up to hold the apostolic office and thus be a special witness of Jesus Christ, the first mortal man on earth with such authority since the deaths of Peter, Paul and other New Testament figures. But Joseph's role would have further significance, he being the man who, under the direction of Jesus Christ, received the keys of the gospel's restoration in latter days and of the prophesied Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. It was a role with transcendent magnitude, fulfilling scriptural prophecy.

Joseph himself would only begin to become aware of its significance himself at age 14, when, in response to a fervent plea for religious guidance, he saw in their glory the Father and the Son.

In subsequent theophanies and other heavenly visitations, the young prophet would receive further divine tutoring.

Visiting Joseph on Sept. 21, 1823, the Book of Mormon prophet Moroni in angelic form quoted a number of biblical passages, among them this verse from Isaiah:

"And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots" (Isaiah 11:1).

Some 15 years later, the Prophet would provide a divinely revealed explanation of this verse in the form of questions and responses recorded today as Doctrine and Covenants 113:1-4: "Who is the Stem of Jesse spoken of in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th verses of the 11th chapter of Isaiah?

"Verily thus saith the Lord: It is the Christ.

"What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?

"Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power."

Commented Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum of the Twelve, "Are we amiss in saying that the prophet here mentioned is Joseph Smith, to whom the priesthood came, who received the keys of the kingdom, and who raised the ensign for the gathering of the Lord's people in our dispensation?"

Alexander W. Baugh, professor of Church history and doctrine at BYU commented, "On Dec. 9, 1834, Joseph Smith Sr. pronounced a patriarchal blessing on Joseph Smith Jr. wherein he declared that the Prophet was a lineal descendant and birthright heir to the patriarchal fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but more particularly Joseph of Egypt. Furthermore, Brigham Young declared that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Joseph through Ephraim (Journal of Discourses 2:269).

"Additionally, Doctrine and Covenants 113:6 states that the 'root of Jesse' as spoken of in Isaiah 11:10 is 'a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.' Such wording suggests the individual to be none other than Joseph Smith."


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: inman; josephsmith; lds; mormon; utah
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1 posted on 12/20/2010 8:46:53 AM PST by T Minus Four
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To: colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Tennessee Nana; aMorePerfectUnion; Godzilla; ejonesie22; ..

Joseph Smith as the root of Jesse ping


2 posted on 12/20/2010 8:48:26 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: T Minus Four

Bizarre! Absolutely bizarre!

Too bad they’re following this false prophet. And they must be quite aware of the consequences. Or, are they aware?


3 posted on 12/20/2010 8:49:46 AM PST by laweeks
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To: 4mer Liberal

This offends me to the core.


4 posted on 12/20/2010 8:50:47 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: T Minus Four

Next thing you know we will be treated to millions of people following David Koresh as another Jesus. Mormons and Muslims share a similar beginning: A pervert looking for sex ith multiple women and children creating a cult for the feeble minded.


5 posted on 12/20/2010 8:54:33 AM PST by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: laweeks
It's a good life and I think many don't WANT to see. There is so much to lose.

If only they knew how much there was to gain!

6 posted on 12/20/2010 8:57:32 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: T Minus Four

In before the PD again!


7 posted on 12/20/2010 9:01:45 AM PST by Imnidiot (THIS SPACE FOR RENT)
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To: T Minus Four
Thee's more to be offended at:

Jesse, in biblical history, is the father of David, making him the ancestor of the kings of Judah and of Christ (see Ruth 4:17,22; 1 Chronicles 2:5-12; Matthew 1:5-6; Bible Dictionary, "Jesse" entry).

Thus the Prophet Joseph Smith fits the scriptural designation of being descended from Jesse and Joseph, of having been endowed with much power, and of having been given the priesthood and the keys of the kingdom preparatory to the gathering of Israel in the last days preceding the Second Coming of the Savior

8 posted on 12/20/2010 9:02:20 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: T Minus Four
From the article: Visiting Joseph on Sept. 21, 1823, the Book of Mormon prophet Moroni in angelic form...

Stop the tape. A "prophet...in angelic form" is Mormonese for the ghost of a dead man...or an ex-angelic demonic being masquerading as a "ghost."

From the article: ...quoted a number of biblical passages, among them this verse from Isaiah: "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots" (Isaiah 11:1). Some 15 years later, the Prophet would provide a divinely revealed explanation of this verse in the form of questions and responses recorded today as Doctrine and Covenants 113:1-4: ..."What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse? "Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power." Commented Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum of the Twelve, "Are we amiss in saying that the prophet here mentioned is Joseph Smith, to whom the priesthood came, who received the keys of the kingdom, and who raised the ensign for the gathering of the Lord's people in our dispensation?"

(Thanks for askin' Brother Bruce. The answer to your question is, "Yes, Mormons are deeply --and widely -- amiss!)

9 posted on 12/20/2010 9:02:28 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links PD uses)
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To: T Minus Four
The blasphemy alone...


10 posted on 12/20/2010 9:03:20 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Imnidiot
In before the PD again!

I prophecie that he'll be along soon. Not all of my prophecies are fulfilled but at least one has so I'm valid.

11 posted on 12/20/2010 9:06:30 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: T Minus Four

Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers, do they believe Joseph Smith is Satan’s brother as well?


12 posted on 12/20/2010 9:07:59 AM PST by jjones9853
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To: Colofornian
Joseph Smith, to whom the priesthood came, who received the keys of the kingdom

The Catholics are really not going to like this...

13 posted on 12/20/2010 9:08:35 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: T Minus Four
This offends me to the core.

Don't be in a room with Smithmas trees: you'll feel excluded from Temple Ceremonies...

14 posted on 12/20/2010 9:09:17 AM PST by Elsie
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To: T Minus Four

Not wishing to offend any LDS who might be reading this, but I feel that the article rated a BARF ALERT.


15 posted on 12/20/2010 9:10:59 AM PST by NEMDF
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To: T Minus Four

Ah yes..the cute musing of a cult. Yes, there is something amiss...christianity is about Jesus and not some religion nor whack job cultist. It still amazes me at how cults tend to “recognize” Jesus but do not obey his commands nor believe his word.


16 posted on 12/20/2010 9:13:37 AM PST by Shaka
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To: T Minus Four
An Open Letter to Mormons who are
sincere about their faith...
 
(and slightly embarrassed by the posts of self-styled
"defender-mormons")
 
If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums
you will notice a pattern. There’s a group of
Christians who spend a great deal of time posting
from Official Mormon Sources - both the Book of
Mormon as well as Mormon Prophets and Church
materials - real quotes from real mormon materials.
 
You will also notice that many of these Christians
are former Mormons who left Mormonism and come to
know the Biblical Jesus Christ and His Gospel of Grace.
 
They have a passion to reach Mormons to share what
they learned about Salvation by grace and apart
from the never ending treadmill of human works...
 
Of course, they are attacked regularly by a very,
small group of Mormons who have zeal, but no real
knowledge beyond what the Mormon Church has told
them. You've seen this with your own eyes on this
thread and others, so I'm not telling you anything
you don't already know.
 
Why can't these so-called "defenders" provide any:
 
… Objective Facts
… Objective Evidence
… Or Logical support
 
Anything OBJECTIVE that any reasonable person would
see and agree that it lends support the claims of
Mormonism.
 
Why can't they do this?
 
If Mormonism is true, why is it based only on
subjective feelings and why doesn't it have the
same kind of objective support the Bible does?
 
Has God changed?
 
Is He no longer able to weave His story into history,
into the fabric of human DNA, into the findings of
archeology, and into geography? Do you believe He has
become powerless?
 
I bet you do not believe that.
 
So why would God provide every kind of objective support
for the Bible's rich history and none for the Book of
Mormon? Why?
 
These "defenders" post links over and over again that
“address” things yet never provide an answer that is
buttressed by the ring of truth, echoed by history,
archeology, genetics, geography, etc.
 
If they could support the claims of Mormonism with facts,
you know they would. But it never happens here. You may
be new to these threads, but I've read almost every one
for the past 6 years. I can tell you that it is always
the same as this thread. No facts, no evidence, no logical
argument. 
 
People deserve more than subjective feelings and useless
links to non-answers.
 
You deserve more than feelings and hollow links.
 
After reading both sides on this thread and others,
you may very well be wondering about what you were
taught when you joined the LDS church. You also may
be wondering how to resolve the lack of facts, evidence
and logical suport for Mormonism's claims.
 
You are not alone in wondering this.
 
Many have approached those of us who are Christians
asking where to find out more and some, even, to ask
how to come to know the Biblical Christ and some even how
to gracefully leave Mormonism and start a new life with
Christ.
 
Many here have already set out to finally and joyfully know
the true God and Savior. They understand the terrible choice
of being totally sincere about your faith, but increasingly
concerned that it isn't everything you once believed and hoped
for.

After coming to know the truth, they are on a path that gives
them the rest God promised to His children and the certainty
of His ultimate plan for them. Nothing brings them greater joy
than helping a friend who has the same questions.
 
There are places online that you can visit to learn more about
Mormonism.
 
If something is true, it can withstand any question, no matter
how tough. If it is false, it is better to know while your life
is in front of you. You can read these resources without fear.
 
http://www.irr.org/mit/default.html
http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/
http://4mormon.org/ex-mormon.php
http://www.exmormon.org/
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/
 
Links may raise more questions and concerns and sometimes it
helps to have someone who has already wrestled through these
issues.
 
I invite you to private FReep-mail any of the Christians
on this thread to ask questions about the concerns you have.
 
We always do our best to directly answer your questions with
facts, evidence and logical support.
 
Take a step.
 
Roll the dice.
 
What do you have to lose at this point? And you have much to
gain. 
 
There is peace and rest waiting for you.
 
 
All the Best,
ampu

17 posted on 12/20/2010 9:14:34 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: ejonesie22; T Minus Four; svcw; laweeks; CodeToad
From the article: "What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse? "Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power." Commented Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum of the Twelve, "Are we amiss in saying that the prophet here mentioned is Joseph Smith, to whom the priesthood came, who received the keys of the kingdom, and who raised the ensign for the gathering of the Lord's people in our dispensation?"

Does everybody realize the import of what the Mormons are doing here?

It's not enough that Lds often focus on Joseph Smith's Dec. 23 birthday as much if not more than Jesus Christ's celebrated birthday set-aside date. They now want to wrestle away some of the verses of Christmas carols/hymns so they will apply to Joseph Smith!

Merry Smithmas, indeed!

Example: The text for the much-beloved Christmas carol/hymn, O Come, O Come Emmanuel was written in the 12th century. Now Mormon apologists are wanting to wrestle the second verse from that carol as belonging to Christ!!!:

<>b>O come, Thou Rod of Jesse, free
Thine own from Satan's tyranny
From depths of Hell Thy people save
And give them victory o'er the grave
Rejoice! Rejoice! Emmanuel
Shall come to thee, O Israel.

O come, O come EmmanSmithuel???

18 posted on 12/20/2010 9:15:18 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links PD uses)
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To: T Minus Four
The Rod of Jesse is a physical lineage, just like a family tree. Both Mary's and Joseph's (the stepfather of the Lord Jesus Christ) lineage is found in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. They are used to prove that Christ fulfills the prophesies as messiah.

Since you claim Joseph Smith Jr is of this line, Can you please give his lineage back to Jesse (through David of course).

Thanks

19 posted on 12/20/2010 9:17:19 AM PST by sr4402
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
There is peace and rest waiting for you

Heartfelt AMEN!

20 posted on 12/20/2010 9:17:25 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: Imnidiot
In before the PD again!


21 posted on 12/20/2010 9:18:07 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: T Minus Four

“I prophecy that he’ll be along soon.”

I prophecy that some will know him for evil and some for good.

I also prophecy that the [P]osted [D]umbed-down links will address everything and answer nothing.

I further prophecy that many mormons will again be embarrassed by this non-defense of the faith they are sincere about - and that they are troubled by the lack of:

...facts
...evidence
...logical argumentation

that could defend mormonism.

ampu, prophet, seer, revelator, council of the very big leaders...


22 posted on 12/20/2010 9:19:09 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: NEMDF
Not wishing to offend any LDS who might be reading this, but I feel that the article rated a BARF ALERT.

I would agree - sad thing is it was LDS who made these comments to begin with!

23 posted on 12/20/2010 9:20:30 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: sr4402
Can you please give his lineage back to Jesse (through David of course).

Duh, his Dad said so, so that should be good enough. From the article:

On Dec. 9, 1834, Joseph Smith Sr. pronounced a patriarchal blessing on Joseph Smith Jr. wherein he declared that the Prophet was a lineal descendant and birthright heir to the patriarchal fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but more particularly Joseph of Egypt. Furthermore, Brigham Young declared that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Joseph through Ephraim (Journal of Discourses 2:269).

Side note: Their 12-year-old priests, aka every worthy boy, are "spiritually transfused" with the blood of Levi to enable them to hold the priesthood.

24 posted on 12/20/2010 9:21:23 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: T Minus Four
Hail to the Prophet and Merry Christmas. Brothers for eternity
25 posted on 12/20/2010 9:24:20 AM PST by 47samurai (The last real conservative)
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To: T Minus Four

I know that there are a lot of good people that follow the Mormon sect. I can’t really call it a religion but this is just the biggest bunch of balderdash I have ever heard. Comparing Joseph Smith to Jesus Christ. That is just too much.

Christ never wanted multiple wives, Christ never lied, Christ never deceived people, Christ never killed anybody. Other than that I guess he was just like Joseph Smith Jr.


26 posted on 12/20/2010 9:24:53 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

You’re right, most LDS people I know (and I live in Utah)are very good, kind, sincere people. My heart aches for them!


27 posted on 12/20/2010 9:27:28 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: 47samurai

Notice you of course mention the false prophet BEFORE Christ...


28 posted on 12/20/2010 9:29:38 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: T Minus Four
Duh, his Dad said so, so that should be good enough.

Sorry, but I am looking for a legal lineage. Do you have it?

I see that the claim goes back to Abraham. Therefore, I need the begets all the way from Abraham, through Jesse to Joseph Smith Jr. Please provide all the father's names through all the generations.

Surely you have it in the Mormon Archives?

29 posted on 12/20/2010 9:29:44 AM PST by sr4402
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To: jjones9853

We all are, according to them.


30 posted on 12/20/2010 9:31:10 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: All

Oh looky! Another anti-Mormon gang thread!

Nothing new though. Same old non-issues. /yawn


31 posted on 12/20/2010 9:32:37 AM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: All
Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their forner Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, then quote and straw man attack that. Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you, the seeker of truth out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 


32 posted on 12/20/2010 9:33:14 AM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: sr4402
Sorry, but I am looking for a legal lineage. Do you have it?

How dare you get on this thread and bash Mormons! You have a spirit of contention, you hater! If you would just go to this unofficial LDS website www.fairlds.org and look for yourself you will feel that it is true. Sheesh < /s >

33 posted on 12/20/2010 9:34:43 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: All

I’m further validated :-)


34 posted on 12/20/2010 9:35:33 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: sr4402; All; T Minus Four; Godzilla; svcw; Georgia Girl 2; laweeks; CodeToad; ejonesie22; ...
SR4402...clarification there...based on your two posts...T Minus Four isn't Mormon...she's merely exposing faulty Mormon interpretation of Isaiah 11:1.

The Rod of Jesse is a physical lineage, just like a family tree. Both Mary's and Joseph's (the stepfather of the Lord Jesus Christ) lineage is found in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. They are used to prove that Christ fulfills the prophesies as messiah. Since you claim Joseph Smith Jr is of this line, Can you please give his lineage back to Jesse (through David of course). Thanks [SR4402]

Yes, indeed sr4402. How about if every FREEPER between now and Christmas made this same request SR4402 has made. Ask it nicely. But firmly request that:

"Since your fellow Mormons claim Joseph Smith Jr is of this line, can you please give Christ's lineage back to Jesse (through David of course). Thanks."

Now, should the Mormon not know to what you are referencing, simply say:

Well, I put the words "rod," "Joseph" and "Isaiah 11:1" -- the latter in quotations -- and Googled it. Did you know that three of the top 8 hits were from Mormon apologetics Web sites trying to maintain (in effect) that the second verse of the Christmas carol, O Come, O Come Emmanuel belongs NOT to Jesus Christ, but to Joseph Smith????!!!!!.

You don't have to be an "expert" about Mormonism to just ask your...
...Mormon co-workers,
...Your Mormon neighbors,
...Your Mormon family members,
...Your Mormon acquaintances...
...Why the people that Mormon FREEPERS like Paragon Defender seem to respect the most (PD is ALWAYS spamming these threads, sending posters & lurkers to unofficial Lds apologetics Web sites...)
...Other unofficial Lds apologetics Web sites are inserting "Joseph Smith" himself into the Old Testament text of Isaiah 11:1!

(By the way, this kind of thing isn't new...Smith also inserted himself into other passages like Ezekiel 37 and Genesis 50)

35 posted on 12/20/2010 9:36:02 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links PD uses)
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To: Paragon Defender
Are you claiming that this article from a Mormon publication is a lie?
36 posted on 12/20/2010 9:36:29 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Paragon Defender

The article is from the Official Mormon Times. Is it BS?


37 posted on 12/20/2010 9:41:21 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: Paragon Defender
Seekers of truth

Well lookie who finally showed up. Instead of addressing the issue of whether or not smith was prophecied in the bible - as taught by lds apostles and prophets - we get the standard spam which is now becoming a laughing stock in the FR community. Of course, had pd done his homework, he'd find the claims of the article supported in an article by the official lds rag "ensign".

We've presented the 'official' lds view - we are also presenting the opposite view which many lds prefer NOT to look at.


38 posted on 12/20/2010 9:41:53 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Paragon Defender
CLICK HERE
39 posted on 12/20/2010 9:45:36 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: NEMDF
Why would you care if they are offended, the don't care that you are offended by the blasphemy of God's Word.
40 posted on 12/20/2010 9:47:33 AM PST by svcw
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To: T Minus Four; All
The Mormon version of verse 2 of O Come, O Come Emmanuel (if a combination of Joe Smith and Isaiah 11:1 superimposing Mormon apologists had their way, that is):

O come, Thou Rod of Jesse, free
Thine own from Satan's one-wife tyranny
From depths of temporary spirit prison Thy people save
And give them polygamy be-yond the grave
Rejoice! Rejoice! Thee man Joe-el
Smith shall come, ye see, to tell ye tall tales

[JST "translation" of traditional Christmas carol]

41 posted on 12/20/2010 9:50:05 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links PD uses)
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To: Paragon Defender
This in an article written in an OFFICIAL mormon publication written by a member of lds. Are you publicly saying what this person has written is a lie?
Official mormon publication unlike your links which say they are NOT official and have no affiliation with lds (except two).

42 posted on 12/20/2010 9:51:32 AM PST by svcw
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To: T Minus Four
Joseph Smith, to whom the priesthood came, who received the keys of the kingdom

The Catholics are really not going to like this...

The Catholics simply dismiss the LDS religion as weird polytheism, and give no credence to its claims.

43 posted on 12/20/2010 9:52:05 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: T Minus Four; Colofornian

Book of Mormon prophet Moroni in angelic form...Moroni Ping

44 posted on 12/20/2010 9:54:54 AM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah, where the world comes to see America)
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To: Godzilla

Your non-issues are found at the links.

My response is in response to the anti-Mormon replies. It’s not that hard to understand. Nice new classless graphic btw.


45 posted on 12/20/2010 9:56:25 AM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender
What anti-mormon replies? I only see anti-mormonISM replies.
46 posted on 12/20/2010 9:59:12 AM PST by svcw
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To: Paragon Defender
An Open Letter to Mormons who are
sincere and serious about their faith...
 
(but slightly troubled and embarrassed by the posts
of "defender-mormons")
 
If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums
you will notice a pattern. There’s a group of
Christians who spend a great deal of time posting
from Official Mormon Sources - both the Book of
Mormon as well as Mormon Prophets and Church
materials - real quotes from real mormon materials.
 
You will also notice that many of these Christians
are former Mormons who left Mormonism and came to
know the Biblical Jesus Christ and His Gospel of Grace
- apart from the treadmill of human works.
 
They have a passion to share what they learned with
other Mormons.
 
Of course, they are attacked regularly by a very,
small group of Mormons on FR who have zeal, but no real
knowledge beyond what the Mormon Church has told
them.
 
Why can't these so-called "defenders" provide any:
 
… Objective Facts
… Objective Evidence
… Or Logical support
 
Anything OBJECTIVE that any reasonable person would
see and agree that it lends support the claims of
Mormonism.
 
God is a God of real history. He wove the strands of
human DNA, His Book, the Bible is rooted and grounded
in real places on real maps and is verified through
archeology, geography, history and genetics.
 
If Mormonism is true, why is it based only on subjective
feelings and
why doesn't it have the same kind of objective
support the Bible does
?
 
Has God changed?
 
Is He no longer in control of the world?
 
If they could support the claims of Mormonism with facts,
you know they would. But it never happens. I've even heard
these "defenders" say God hid all evidence to make our
faith greater. Has the God of the universe now become
the Cosmic Easter Bunny? Or is He unchangeable, like the
Bible teaches?
 
*** Why would God provide every kind of objective support
for the Bible's rich history and none for the Book of
Mormon? ***
 
These "defenders" post links over and over again that
“address” things yet never provide an answer that is
buttressed by the ring of truth, echoed by history,
archeology, genetics, geography, etc.
 
You deserve more than feelings and non-answers.
 
After reading both sides on this thread and others,
you may very well be wondering about what you were
taught when you joined the LDS church. You also may
be wondering how to resolve the tension of a faith
that is based entirely on subjective claims, yet
wants to claim the same God who has commanded you
to love Him with "all your mind."
 
You are not alone in this journey.
 
Many have approached us who are Christians asking where
to find out more and some, even, to ask how to come to
know the Biblical Christ and some even how  to gracefully
leave Mormonism and start a new life with Christ.
 
Many here have already set out to finally and joyfully know
the true God and Savior. They understand the terrible choice
of being totally sincere about your faith, but increasingly
concerned that it isn't everything you once believed and hoped for
.

After coming to know the truth, they are on a path that gives them
the rest God promised to His children and the certainty of His
ultimate plan for them.
 
Here are some links to get you started in your quest to know
the Biblical Christ:
http://www.irr.org/mit/default.html
http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/
http://4mormon.org/ex-mormon.php
http://www.exmormon.org/
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/
In the end though, links may raise more questions and concerns
and sometimes it helps to have someone who has already wrestled
with all these issues already.
 
I invite you to private FReep-mail any of the Christians
on this thread to ask questions about the concerns you have.
 
We always do our best to directly answer your questions with
facts, evidence and logical support.
 
Take a step.
 
What do you have to lose at this point? And you have much to
gain. 
 
If something is true, it can withstand any question, no matter
how tough. If it is false, it is better to know while your life
is in front of you.
 
There is peace and rest waiting for you today. Take a step to
find it now.
 
All the Best,
ampu

47 posted on 12/20/2010 9:59:56 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Paragon Defender
So Smith being "the root of Jesse" prophecied in the bible is a "non-issue"? But never-the-less it will be found somewhere amongst your tiresome, repetitive unofficial links?

Why should we go look there when I posted the article from an official source? I think this gives a prety good point of view from the Mormons. Now the Christians are weighing in. Don't like it? Tough. Christians will not be silenced.

48 posted on 12/20/2010 10:01:17 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: Utah Binger

Rats. Tinypic is blocked by my server.


49 posted on 12/20/2010 10:02:49 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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To: T Minus Four

The article is from the Official Mormon Times. Is it BS?


I am addressing the multitude of anti-Mormon propaganda comments following the article. Cmon now. I know you are smarter than that. Well... I don’t want to read minds. I think you are smart enough to know. It’s my opinion. I could be wrong. You might not be smart enough. /shrug


50 posted on 12/20/2010 10:02:49 AM PST by Paragon Defender
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