Pius XII was no saint

Ottawa Citizen ^ | January 2, 2010 | Robert S. Wistrich

[Quix]

Trying to leave me crying again, are you!

You are quite right in your understandings of me, imho.

Not sure I even have anything to quibble about or add.

Goodness, left me speechless and fingerless too! What a homerun! LOL.

YES! I'm just, if not more, hostile to such junk within Pentecostalism as I am any other group.

Yes, the majority of Christians hereon being Roman Catholics et al and the . . . somewhat IN YOUR FACE . . . stance of the Insitution and the individuals does kind of leave all that as 'point man' in taking most of heat on those issues and as an institution.

I am also aware . . . that I EXPECT THAT, COUNT ON lurkers of other faiths will note the issues illustrated in the discussions with the Roman Catholics et al . . . and Holy Spirit will THEREBY lead them to taking heed and adjusting their spiritual lives because THOSE individuals in whatever denominations really have a heart to be closer to God.

Actually, I already believed that a large percentage of earnest Roman Catholics et al did agree with me on those two issues. It's MOSTLY just the blindly 'more-Roman-Catholic-than-the-Pope cliques that I think are so out to lunch on most things I rant about. Virtually 100% (98.9%?)of my tweakiness, satire, mocking etc. is directed at THAT level and type of !!!!RELIGIOSITY!!!! soooooooooooooo in concert with the religious rulers 2000 years ago.

Getting teary again rereading your kind post. THANKS TONS.

I eagerly await your elaborating on the other two issues you alluded to.

Prayers for speedy safe truck repairs.

Thanks tons again. Much blessed by your kind post.

[Quix]

You are right.

I don’t knowingly stand on false quick sand sources.

I just am more trusting and lazier, or busy enough to avoid bothering about checking a LOT of the time.

[Ransomed]

Awesome post, great job. Lets see how many who were just so horrified at what they thought the Pope said will comment on their relief that he didn’t really say what so repulsed them. I mean, why wouldn’t they, right?

Freegards

[Quix]

I’m relieved by the evidence brought forth.

I’m skeptical that it’s the whole story.

[AnAmericanMother]

Lot of work there, Mark.

Thanks for doing the heavy lifting.

First rule of apologetics (or history): Always verify your sources. Always.

[Ransomed]

“I’m relieved by the evidence brought forth.”

That’s great. Do you think you are doing a disservice to the Freepers you pinged in post 341 and those you commented with in the thread about the supposed comment from the Pope if you don’t notify them again and inform them about the new evidence brought forward to your relief? They might not have seen the new evidence that would seem to alter the debate on the matter, and might be relieved also to hear the new evidence. You could even use the big font and the colours like in post 341, to let them know how relieved you are about this new information!

“I’m skeptical that it’s the whole story.”

Fair enough.

Freegards

[AnAmericanMother]

Full name is Rolf Hochhuth, b. 1931 (and apparently still kicking).

He accused Prime Minister Churchill of having murdered the Polish Prime Minister (he got sued for libel over that one).

And he was in hot water awhile back for supporting David Irving, the notorious Holocaust denier.

Here is what amounts to a capsule summary, by Rabbi David Dalin, of his book The Myth of Hitler's Pope, on the Columbia U website: Pius XII and the Jews

[Huber]

Quix,

There would be no harm, and it would be quite Christian and honorable, to acknowledge the error of attribution in this case. Christianity, in both both its traditional and reformed variants professes a love of Truth. I quickly scanned for any responses by you to markomalley’s post, but did not see one up yet.

Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

[Quix]

SOME have called for an update ping re the info I earlier pinged you to.

Consider youselves so pinged.

Thx.

[Quix]

Evidently you haven’t scanned far enough.

[Huber]

I was lazy and simply looked at replies to markomalley’s post. If I missed yours, I apologize.

[Quix]

Have you see posts

#401

and

#402?

[Ransomed]

It’s a good start, but I think it would have been better if you referenced markomalley’s post(381) and explained that you are relieved at the new evidence, even though you think there might be more to the story. Many Freepers have to Freep in hit and run sessions(unfortunately) and wouldn’t have time to follow up by trying to find what you are referencing.

I was hoping for a giant multi-coloured font too! I mean, what you thought the Pope said in your post 341 was in big red letters with the phrase in question in big green letters, and then your comments on how horrific and historicly accurate the fine post was. It sure is a sensitive subject all around, so maybe the follow up deserves equal treatment.

Freegards

[AnAmericanMother]

The usual rule for a retraction is that it gets the same type size and same position as the erroneous statement.

Besides, it's the honest thing to do.

[AnAmericanMother]

It's also customary to identify the erroneous statement and the correction by page (or in this case post) number . . . rather than just "Hey guys, I said something (but I won't say what) somewhere on this thread, and there's an update (not a retraction or correction) somewhere on this thread too (but I won't say where that is either). You'll have to look for it among 400 posts, have fun."

When I make an erroneous statement or attribution (which is something that can happen to anybody), I'm embarrassed enough about it to identify it plainly and identify the correction plainly as well.

[Mrs. Frogjerk]

Well done.

We can correct people in charitable ways and get the seriousness of our points across as well(less the name calling and obnoxiousness). You did that well!

I have to admit I was almost had by Quix’s post. I would have looked it up eventually and found the error of the supposed quote from Pope John Paul though. That isn't hard to do.

[Quix]

Maybe I’ll get around to that tomorrow.

However, I don’t recall nominating any of you as my

MOTHER SUPERIORs.

It’s difficult for me to think of any group . . . in my 63 years . . . who was anywhere near

as

unmitigatedly

BOSSY

!!!!CONTROLLING!!!! to the max . . .

in their terms; their timing; their sensibilities 24/7 . . . to the max . . . OR ELSE!

Sheesh.

Y’all REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY DO!!!!!!!!!!

TRY doggedly hard to the max

to conform the world to y’all’s image.

God have mercy.

Last I checked, MarkOMalley and I were having an exchange . . . that we are not at all done with.

I’ve not been on much today at all. I’ve had other priorities.

Guess what one of those priorities was NOT!

One of those priorities was NOT

conforming my sensibibilities and posting priorities to

the PRISSY-TO-THE-MAX sensibilities of whatever cluster of Roman Catholics et al re whatever errors I may have made or not made; may need to refine or not refine; may need to retract or not retract!

Does every Roman Catholic/Vatican affiliated Parochial school hand out degrees—PhD’s probably—in TRYING THE PATIENCE OF JOB???

No wonder y’all feel so slapped so often—all you offer the rest of the world is !!!!CHEEK!!!!!

[AnAmericanMother]

Nope, just ordinary protocol when you've published a falsehood. Most folks know that.

And if you've got the time to post falsehoods, you have time to correct them.

Your own conscience should tell you that. Quit complaining about others pointing out the obvious to you, when you started the problem by publishing it for all to see.

[narses]

I’m skeptical that it’s the whole story.

Why?

[Quix]

Hello?

What did I publish?

I agreed with someone else’s post!!!!!

Y’all make it sound like I was THE SOURCE of even someone else’s post!

You may be an all American Mother.

You’re not mine.

It’s a wonder I’m still replying to you at all for any reason.

Sheesh what !CHEEK!

I think you’ve just made up my mind for me.

I’ll likely not offer any further retractions, clarifications etc. until I’ve obtained and read the book.

Y’all can just go suck rocks or thumbs or sit in the corner and pout.

HINT: The rest of the world are NOT the Vatican’s slaves, serfs, houseboys nor maids.

I have accepted MarkOMalley’s research that the particular citation I resonded to with about 6-10 words or so was not as the post I was responding to asserted it was.

I acclaimed it was THE TRUTH when it evidently was not—per Mark’s research.

I’m not convinced that’s 100% of the whole story. However, I love Mark a lot and respect him a lot. And certainly his research at this point surpasses mine by a great margin.

So those standing by with the Inquisitional torture racks ready to apply them for my lack of kowtowing to their sensibilities regarding retractions will just have to heat their red hot pokers a lot longer. I don’t know how soon I can get the book, much less read it.

Sheesh.