Class: your project today is to read this speech from Elder Dallin Oakes and then condense it by listing just exactly what he was trying to convey...
http://mi.byu.edu/publications/transcripts/?id=30
Posted on 11/14/2009 2:54:59 PM PST by Colofornian
Below is an informative piece by my friend Gary Glenn of the American Family Association of Michigan about the awful decision by the LDS Church (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) to support legislation granting legal protections based on homosexuality. Gary of AFA-Michigan writes:
A Shocker from Salt Lake City:
The LDS (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) Church now officially endorses so-called “gay rights” laws, specifically a Salt Lake City law prohibiting “discrimination” on the basis of “sexual orientation” (homosexual behavior) and “gender identity” (cross-dressing).
From the official LDS Church website: http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/church-supports-nondiscrimination-ordinances
ASSOCIATED PRESS: “Mormons throw support behind gay-rights cause”
DESERET NEWS: “Mormon church supports Salt Lake City’s protections for gay rights”
Astoundingly, both the Massachusetts and California supreme courts expressly and specifically cited their states’ identical “sexual orientation” laws regarding employment and housing as a legal justification for their rulings legalizing so-called homosexual “marriage.” That indisputable fact alone renders the Church spokesman’s claim that its endorsement of the “sexual orientation” ordinance poses no threat to marriage to be utter nonsense, especially since the Church’s new position will certainly boost homosexual activists’ ongoing efforts in the Utah Legislature to enact an identical state law.
Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, Goodridge v. Mass. Dept. of Health: “Several amici suggest that prohibiting marriage by same-sex couples reflects community consensus that homosexual conduct is immoral. Yet Massachusetts has a strong affirmative policy of preventing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. See G.L. c. 151B (employment, housing, credit, services); G.L. c. 265, § 39 (hate crimes); G.L. c. 272, § 98 (public accommodation).” Page14 at: Goodridge
California Supreme Court, In Re: Marriage Cases: “See, for example, Civil Code section 51 (barring sexual orientation discrimination in the provision of services by any business establishment); Government Code sections 12920 (barring sexual orientation discrimination in employment), 12955 (barring sexual orientation discrimination in housing)… In light of this recognition, sections 1 and 7 of article I of the California Constitution cannot properly be interpreted to withhold from gay individuals the same basic civil right of personal autonomy and liberty — including the right to establish, with the person of one’s choice, an officially recognized and sanctioned family — that the California Constitution affords to heterosexual individuals.” pp 68-69 at: http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov
U.S. House Republican Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, reaffirmed the threat such “sexual orientation” laws pose to marriage in commenting on the federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), legislation which would add “sexual orientation” to federal civil rights laws regarding employment. If enacted, Boehner said, ENDA would “put activist judges in the position of imposing same-sex marriage and civil union laws on states. Simply by using ENDA as the basis of their decisions – just as state Supreme Courts have done with state-level ENDA laws in the past – liberal judges will be empowered under this legislation to single-handedly undermine state and federal marriage laws across the country. I’m disappointed that the Majority turned back a straightforward proposal offered by House Republicans to protect state and federal marriage laws from being overturned, modified, or restricted by activist judges as a result of this deeply flawed legislation.” RepublicanLeader.house.gov
Such laws have also been used to discriminate against and punish individuals and businesses who refuse to approve of homosexual behavior and cross-dressing.
It is difficult to believe that LDS officials could be so grossly ignorant of the demonstrably proven threat such laws pose to marriage and to the religious freedoms of the individual, special exemptions for “religious organizations” and the government notwithstanding. It’s further astounding that church officials would endorse a law banning “discrimination” based on “gender identity,” rendering it illegal for an employer to refuse to hire a man because he (1) dresses as and claims to believe he’s a woman; and (2) demands on that basis to use the women’s restroom at work.
It’s notable in contrast that the Catholic Church refuses to endorse forcing such “sexual orientation” laws on the rest of society just because homosexual activists are politically calculating enough to (at least temporarily) exempt churches. [Editor's Note: in certain areas such as Maine, Catholic bishops or leaders have endorsed homosexual activist laws against the teachings of their Church; such backing in heavily Catholic states usually makes the difference in passage of pro-homosexual legislation.]
From a Vatican directive instructing Catholic bishops to oppose so-called “sexual orientation” laws: “Where a matter of the common good is concerned, it is inappropriate for church authorities to endorse or remain neutral toward adverse legislation even if it grants exceptions to church organizations and institutions. The church has the responsibility to promote family life and the public morality of the entire civil society on the basis of fundamental moral values, not simply to protect herself from the application of harmful laws.” http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFHOMOL.htm
We deeply sympathize with the shock that will no doubt be felt by many members of the LDS Church who do understand the implications of so-called “sexual orientation” laws and have expended great effort to oppose them and to educate others.
For example…
Meridian Magazine / The Place Where Latter-day Saints Gather: “Of course, the problem here is that the term ’sexual orientation’ has no innate meaning (in contrast with ‘race’, which does) and no historic or community value (such as ‘religion’) and would require the Utah State Legislature to fabricate its definition. In other words, adding the term ’sexual orientation’ to Utah law, as demanded (by homosexual activists), would give lawyers standing to attack employers and property owners.” www.ldsmag.com
United Famlies International: “We adamantly oppose the UNHRC sexual orientation provisions for three reasons: 1. Attempts to legalize same sex marriage around the world would be substantially strengthened if homosexual behavior becomes an internationally recognized ‘human right.’” http://unitedfamilies.org
UFI brochure on “Sexual Orientation,” perhaps the best and most comprehensive single source on the subject we’ve ever seen… SexualOrientation
Resty: “There is no error in the Church position!”
Sure there is, and it’s indisputable.
Their stated position: “The Church supports these (’sexual orientation’) ordinances because they are fair and reasonable and do not do violence to the institution of marriage.”
Yet if you read the original post above, you can follow the links to the decisions of both the California and Massachusetts supreme courts, which in both cases specifically and expressly cite those states’ “sexual orientation” laws as the basis of their decisions to declare so-called homosexual “marriage” legal. The state prohibits “discrimination” based on “sexual orientation,” the courts said, thus we can no longer allow the state’s marriage laws to “discriminate” against two men who want to marry.
Thus, Church officials just endorsed the very legal construct cited by left-wing activist judges as justification for their imposing so-called homosexual “marriage” in the first place, which the Church and Church members (to their substantial credit) then spent millions of dollars to overturn.
Such “sexual orientation” laws have also been used in jurisdictions that have adopted them to discriminate against and penalize individuals, businesses, and community organizations such as the Boy Scouts, Salvation Army, and Catholic Charities. Click the following link for multiple examples:
http://www.responsiblevoters.org/SpecialRights/Key3Victims.aspx
On top of that, the Salt Lake ordinance the LDS Church officially endorsed included so-called “gender identity,” a concept so radical that even openly homoexual Democrat Barney Frank initially refused to put it into his federal “gay rights” bill (legislation which Mitt Romney endorsed, by the way).
Prohibiting so-called “discrimination” on the basis of “gender identity” literally means you can be forced to hire a man who wears a wig, makeup, and high heels to work and demands to use the women’s restroom and shower, and it would constitute “discrimination” not to let him.
Did LDS officials knowingly endorse that concept, or were they ignorant? (I’m hoping they were merely ignorant, though grossly so, and may yet see fit to “adjust” their position.)
That said, on the other issue of Resty bearing false witness, apparently he does not have the integrity to (1) admit that he cannot document or prove his false accusation that I have “trashed LDS before” on FR, and (2) apologize for the false witness.
(As previously stated, my multiple posts criticizing Mitt Romney for his public policy record of supporting abortion on demand and homosexual activists’ political agenda before running for president don’t count, since I was slamming him for positions that themselves were at odds with the values of his own church.)
What openly homoexual Congressman Barney Frank said in explaining why he initially refused to add the term “gender identity” to his federal legislation prohibiting “discrimination” on the basis of “sexual orientation”:
“There are workplace situations — communal showers, for example — when the demands of the transgender community fly in the face of conventional norms and therefore would not pass in any Congress,” Frank said. “I’ve talked with transgender activists, and what they want, and what we will be forced to defend, is for people with penises who identify as women to be able to shower with other women. There are no votes for that. And if that is the price
for this bill, it is wrong.”
Quoted by various sources including THE LABOR LAWYER, Winter/Spring 2006, page 25, paragraph 102 at the following link:
http://www.bna.com/bnabooks/ababna/laborlawyer/21.3.pdf
Thus, LDS Church officials just endorsed a legal concept so radical that even Barney Frank wasn’t comfortable with it. He eventually relented, however, and added the “gender identity” term after being condemned by the same “transgender activists” he cited in his comments.
Do I believe LDS officials understood the language they endorsed and intentionally expressed support for the radical concept of cross-dressing “rights” as explained by Barney Frank?
No, I think they acted out of ignorance, and a desire to prove they’re not “bigots” because they oppose so-called homosexual “marriage.” I hope, once better educated on the legal effects of the language they endorsed, they’ll see fit to adjust their stand as they have on other issues in the past.
Tolerance, Same-Sex Marriage and Religious Freedom
Those who favor homosexual marriage contend that “tolerance” demands that they be given the same right to marry as heterosexual couples. But this appeal for “tolerance” advocates a very different meaning and outcome than that word has meant throughout most of American history and a different meaning than is found in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Savior taught a much higher concept, that of love. “Love thy neighbor,” He admonished. [13] Jesus loved the sinner even while decrying the sin, as evidenced in the case of the woman taken in adultery: treating her kindly, but exhorting her to “sin no more.” [14] Tolerance as a gospel principle means love and forgiveness of one another, not “tolerating” transgression.
In today’s secular world, the idea of tolerance has come to mean something entirely different. Instead of love, it has come to mean condone – acceptance of wrongful behavior as the price of friendship.
Jesus taught that we love and care for one another without condoning transgression. But today’s politically palatable definition insists that unless one accepts the sin he does not tolerate the sinner.
As Elder Dallin H. Oaks has explained,
Tolerance obviously requires a non-contentious manner of relating toward one another’s differences. But tolerance does not require abandoning one’s standards or one’s opinions on political or public policy choices. Tolerance is a way of reacting to diversity, not a command to insulate it from examination. [15]
The Church does not condone abusive treatment of others and encourages its members to treat all people with respect. However, speaking out against practices with which the Church disagrees on moral grounds – including same-sex marriage – does not constitute abuse or the frequently misused term “hate speech.” We can express genuine love and friendship for the homosexual family member or friend without accepting the practice of homosexuality or any re-definition of marriage.
13] Matt. 19:19.
[14] John 8:11.
[15] Elder Dallin H. Oaks, “Weightier Matters,” BYU Devotional speech, 9 February 1999.
Transcript
http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6647
Audio
http://media.byub.org/mp3/devo/1999/2/devo199929-361.mp3
Thanks for watching my backside; Sister!
--MormonDube(We need all the support we can get!)
But what if they are Flds?
Do they not also wear the garments?
And the SLC group does NOT 'allow' anyone to call the Flds folks MORMON!
Elder Dallin H. Oaks said:
"How … do we prevent our strengths from becoming our downfall? The quality we must cultivate is humility. Humility is the great protector. Humility is the antidote against pride. Humility is the catalyst for all learning, especially spiritual things. Through the prophet Moroni, the Lord gave us this great insight into the role of humility:
‘I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them’.
--Ether 12:27
Bible:
"And he said unto me, my grace is sufficient for thee; for my strength is made perfect in weakness."
--2 Cor. 12:9
MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t! 2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t! 3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t! 4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal! 5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers! 6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t! 7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t. 8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures). 9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith. 10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly. 11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. — -- You can’t. 12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian. 13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't. 14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't 15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself. 16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't. 17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t. 18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t. 19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't. 20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going! 21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where. 22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t. 23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple -- all you have is a stupid cross. 24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty. 25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!) Revision 46.1
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused. |
Poor Ol' Elsie: put on MORMON SHUN by the great apologist, Restornu, once again.
It must be rough, biting one's tongue, to keep from lashing out at MORMON Quotes and Scripture that ELSIE keeps posting.
And there is STILL that annoying UNTRUE thing he keeps badgering us with!
http://mi.byu.edu/publications/transcripts/?id=30
HE is a SHE.
Or so claims.
(She also claims to have been a PRESBYTERIAN at one point in her life; but has never shown any evidence of it one way or another.
Do they not also wear the garments?
And the SLC group does NOT 'allow' anyone to call the Flds folks MORMON!
Does the LDS have a particular god in charge of labels?
Well, even this pro-gay letter-to-the-editor writer from West Jordan, UT, John Johnson, was able to see through this stated ignorance -- your highlighted second sentence above...(tis better to call it ignorance than a lie -- and since I don't know motive/intent for this, I can't call it a lie):
Johnson wrote: For those Mormons who claim this is a continuation of their church's previous policy, years of documented history say otherwise. And if this was consistent with the LDS Church's previous policies, it wouldn't be headlines around the world, the lead story of evening news programs and being debated on Mormon blogs everywhere.
Gee Resty, don't you just hate it when headlines around the world, lead stories on news programs, open debate on Mormon blogs, and documented history just clashes with your shallow claims?
Oh, BTW, the source for Johnson’s quote was the Salt Lake Trib: http://www.sltrib.com/Opinion/ci_13825259
Does the LDS have a particular god in charge of labels?
"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God."
Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945
Also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945 (which was the official church magazine before the Ensign)
"Always keep your eye on the President of the church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, even if it is wrong, and you do it, the lord will bless you for it but you don't need to worry. The lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray."
LDS President Marion G. Romney (of the first presidency), quoting LDS President (and prophet) Heber J. Grant "Conference Report" Oct. 1960 p. 78
"The Lord Almighty leads this Church, and he will never suffer you to be led astray if you are found doing your duty. You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother's arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth."
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p. 289, 1862.
"When the Prophet speaks the debate is over".
N. Eldon Tanner, August Ensign 1979, pages 2-3
"I sat in this tabernacle some years ago as President Joseph Fielding Smith stood at this pulpit. It was the general priesthood meeting of April 1972, the last general conference before President Smith passed away. He said: 'There is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, or the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the lord'."
L. Aldin Porter of the Presidency of the First Quorum of Seventies (Ensign, Nov. 1994, p. 63)
"Follow your leaders who have been duly ordained and have been publicly sustained, and you will not be led astray."
Boyd K. Packer (General Conference, Oct. 1992; Ensign, Nov. 1992)
"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray."
President Wilford Woodruff (considered scripture as it is canonized at the end of the D&C)
Nice. Some companies have vice presidents in charge of janitorial services, groundskeeping, and cafeteria menus. The LDS has a god in charge of labels. I wonder if he checks anything else...
What part of the commandment “Love One Another” don’t you understand?
The Savior taught a much higher concept, that of love. “Love thy neighbor,” He admonished. [13] Jesus loved the sinner even while decrying the sin, as evidenced in the case of the woman taken in adultery: treating her kindly, but exhorting her to “sin no more.” [14] Tolerance as a gospel principle means love and forgiveness of one another, not “tolerating” transgression.
In today’s secular world, the idea of tolerance has come to mean something entirely different. Instead of love, it has come to mean condone – acceptance of wrongful behavior as the price of friendship.
Jesus taught that we love and care for one another without condoning transgression. But today’s politically palatable definition insists that unless one accepts the sin he does not tolerate the sinner.
As Elder Dallin H. Oaks has explained,
Tolerance obviously requires a non-contentious manner of relating toward one another’s differences. But tolerance does not require abandoning one’s standards or one’s opinions on political or public policy choices. Tolerance is a way of reacting to diversity, not a command to insulate it from examination. [15]
The Church does not condone abusive treatment of others and encourages its members to treat all people with respect. However, speaking out against practices with which the Church disagrees on moral grounds – including same-sex marriage – does not constitute abuse or the frequently misused term “hate speech.” We can express genuine love and friendship for the homosexual family member or friend without accepting the practice of homosexuality or any re-definition of marriage.
Resty, doesn’t matter how many statements from LDS officials you post in order to try to divert attention away from your false witness, I’m still waiting on you to discover sufficient integrity to confess and apologize for it.
Just who are you to judge another I only know you by your actions which have been consistant anti LDS!
Hear yourself what you give approval or not.
As far as the LDS is concern it is you who is imposing your will and standards which is not of the Lord!
Your actions remind me of the similar spirit that seems to rule Obama he wants to correct the world as he sees, it is his will he is imposing upon America.
Are you not imposing your will when you acuse me of things that you feel is correct. I take my counsel from the Lord.
It is thy will be done oh Lord not my will or any other force.
Jacob 4
11 Wherefore, beloved brethren, be reconciled unto him through the atonement of Christ, his Only Begotten Son, and ye may obtain a resurrection, according to the power of the resurrection which is in Christ, and be presented as the first-fruits of Christ unto God, having faith, and obtained a good hope of glory in him before he manifesteth himself in the flesh.
13 Behold, my brethren, he that prophesieth, let him prophesy to the understanding of men; for the Spirit speaketh the truth and lieth not. Wherefore, it speaketh of things as they really are, and of things as they really will be; wherefore, these things are manifested unto us plainly, for the salvation of our souls. But behold, we are not witnesses alone in these things; for God also spake them unto prophets of old.
Matt 19
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
John 8
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
In conclusion, diversity and choice are not the weightier matters of the law. The weightier matters that move us toward our goals of eternal life are love of God, obedience to his commandments, and unity in accomplishing the work of his Church. In this belief and practice we move against the powerful modern tides running toward individualism and tolerance rather than toward obedience and cooperative action. Though our belief and practice is unpopular, it is right, and it does not require the blind obedience or the stifling uniformity its critics charge. If we are united on our eternal goal and united on the inspired principles that will get us there, we can be diverse on individual efforts in support of our goals and consistent with those principles.
http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6647
Love is the healing force and some are so wrapped up in the Letter of the law ignoring the counsel from the Spirit of the Lord.
Resty: “I only know you by your actions which have been consistant anti LDS!”
Resty, you leave me no choice but to conclude that you’re simply a knowing and wilful liar, lacking the integrity to tell the truth apologize for your false witness.
Your accusations are simply false, you can provide no evidence of them, but you keep repeating them.
My criticism of Mitt Romney’s pro-abortion, pro-homosexual record is not “anti LDS” and has nothing to do with his religion. In fact, it is his record before running for prez that was at odds with LDS pro-life and pro-family values.
Stop lying, Resty.
She MUST have heard them from the LDS hierarchy; for it appears that no independant thought comes from her head.
your thin skin is showing!:)
And your lack of integrity is showing, Resty.
Why such a challenge with telling the truth?
Either produce evidence of your false witness, or apologize.
Simple enough.
Sorry but you cannot intimidate me with bully tactic!
Get over yourself!
Do you have to be “intimidated” into telling the truth, Resty?
If your false witness were true, you would have no trouble producing examples, right?
Your failure to do so is an open admission that your accusations are false. I’m just waiting for you to have the integrity to admit it, and apologize.
But I’m a patient guy.
What WOULD it take to get you to answer an honest question:
Just what did Joseph Smith 'learn' to be UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism?
Surely someone who WAS a PRESBYTERIAN at one time, and then was convinced to switch to MORMONism, would know the answer.
There are ONLY two possibilities:
Either you DO know; and, for some REASON known only to you, you WILL not answer the question, or...
You DON'T know, and then the question becomes: why DON'T you know it?
Good for you; for this is what Scripture teaches us!
1 Timothy 1:18-19
18. Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight,
19. holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith.
2 Peter 3:15-16
15. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
16. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
The Church does not condone abusive treatment of others and encourages its members to treat all people with respect.
Oh?
Then WHY does the 'church' continue to publish this TRASH month after month?
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
I have no clue what you are whinning about or a need too, the Lord’s Church and LDS is doing find inspite of you aints.
2 Nephi 2
11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my first-born in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.
AFA-Michigan, Stop trying to impose your will or govern other faiths!
“Stop trying to impose your will or govern other faiths.”
I’m just amusing myself now by seeing how many different ways you’ll try to divert attention away from your making false accusations which you can’t back up.
Anyone capable of rational thought and reading English knows that I’ve not attempted to impose my will or govern your faith (or anyone else’s).
What I have done, and will continue to do, is challenge you to produce any proof whatsoever of your false accusation that I have posted messages “maligning LDS.”
You’ve failed to produce any evidence of the false witness (because you can’t), and you obviously don’t have the integrity to simply admit it and apologize.
I can’t force you to, and you can believe whatever faith you want.
I’m just enjoying watching you dance.
So keep dancing...
On this spot, Nov. 22, 2009, a false witness
was made against AFA-Michigan. Scurrilous charges,
without evidence - untruthful claims - were made...
... placemarker.
Huckabee’s Shadow Campaign – Incite the Anti-Mormon/Romney Vote from America’s Pulpits
January 12, 2008 by mortensign
Mostly transcribed from Politico’s Post – see actual pdf here.
This you just have to see for yourself. This is a correspondence to all the “Jim Jones” folks promoting Huckabee from everything from the pulpit to the parking lot. I think Michigan needs to send out the IRS Swat Team to every evangelical church in Michigan and see a whole bunch of churches lose their tax-exempt status.
(My comments are like this.)
From “Gary Glenn” To: Undisclosed-Recipient
freedomworks@wwdb.org
1/06/2008 11:49:13 PM
How to Win Michigan for Huckabee!
Our highest priorities for the next ten days.
“We were stunned when we saw the poll numbers in Michigan in which we were first or second. …Michigan is turning out to be a very key state for us.” Gov. Mike Huckabee, Detroit News, Jan 3, 2007
“In the past, Christian conservatives have made up anywhere from a quarter to a third fo the Republican electorate in Michigan. In a Detroit News-WXYZ Action News poll last month, 40 percent of likely Republican primary voters in Michiga described themselves as evangelical or fundamentalist Christians.” Detroit News, Jan 4, 2007
Dear Huckabee supporter,
The e-mail I sent earlier is the single most effective way to turn out only identified Huckabee supporters on primary election day, Jan 15th.
For those who do not have the time or manpower to make all those voter I.D. phone calls, here is the second most important campaign objective in the eight days remaining, and it focuses particularly on this coming Sunday, Jan 13th.
What portion of the voting public is most strongly in favor of Gov. Huckabee?
The answer: Evangelical Churches
Members of evangelical churches vote for Huckabee by a 6-to-1 margin over Mitt Romney, meaning that if we turned out every evangelical Christian on election day, Gov. Huckabee would get six times as many votes as Romney!
So how do we target evangelical churches and effectively turn out members of those churches?
Read below, and please do as much as you possibly can between now and Jan 15th.
Gary
Hey!
It worked for Joseph Smith!
And don't you forget it!
Regrettable Mormon Church Decision to Back ‘Gay Rights’
The Lord has counsel His children be in the world but not of the world!
The Lord has give all agency to decide if they are His or of the world.
***
Excerps of Michael Otterson, who officially representing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Church supports these ordinances because they are fair and reasonable and do not do violence to the institution of marriage.
They are also entirely consistent with the Church’s prior position on these matters.
The Church remains unequivocally committed to defending the bedrock foundation of marriage between a man and a woman.
The Family: A Proclamation to the World
I represent a church that believes in human dignity, in treating others with respect even when we disagree – in fact, especially when we disagree.
The Church’s past statements are on the public record for all to see.
In these comments and in our actions, we try to follow what Jesus Christ taught.
Our language will always be respectful and acknowledge those who differ, but will also be clear on matters that we feel are of great consequence to our society.
Thank you.
Ha! Keep trying, Resty.
But first you’ll have to explain how targeting certain demographic groups for Get Out the Vote activity is even remotely related to your false accusation that I’ve posted messages “maligning LDS.”
If you find young people support your candidate, you do GOTV on college campuses. That doesn’t mean you’re “maligning” senior citizens.
Similarly, when you find people of a certain faith are supporting your candidate, you target GOTV efforts to turn out as many of them as you can. And you try to avoid reminding others who don’t support your candidate that there’s even an election going on. Again, that’s not “maligning” anybody.
There are plenty of folks, Resty, who have posted messages obviously attacking the LDS Church in total, including on this thread.
My posts have been limited to (1) criticizing a presidential candidate totally unrelated to his faith affiliation, except to note how out of step his record was with the values of his own church, and now (2) criticizing the Church’s grossly uninformed endorsement of homosexual and cross-dressing “rights” laws (which I continue to hope was based on simple ignorance and may be modified or reversed), while praising the Church for its support of constitutionally protecting one-man, one-woman marriage.
C’mon. You can do better than that.
Well, actually you can’t. Which is the point.
Rather than waste your time trying to find posts that “malign LDS,” it’ll be a lot quicker if you’ll just admit that you’re guilty of bearing false witness and apologize.
But first you’ll have to explain how targeting certain demographic groups for Get Out the Vote activity...
You were the catlyist behind Huckabee “Inciting the Anti-Mormon/Romney” stop parcing words wow the two of you seems to want to bank on a nice-guy persona.
Joseph Smith stated that God told him: "they [other churches] were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19).Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
The Church supports these ordinances because they are fair and reasonable and do not do violence to the institution of marriage.
They are also entirely consistent with the Church’s prior position on these matters.
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHICHAPTER 224 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
Or even HERE:
1 Timothy 3:2-3
2. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3. not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.1 Timothy 3:12
A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.Titus 1:6
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTSSECTION 13251–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
Perhaps the TARGETing of marginal Christians by her favorite recruiting organization has left her a bit confused.
Catty List:
1. Sleep.
2. Chase mouse.
3. Lay in sun.
4. Sleep.
5. Climb up curtains.
6. Snub food.
7. Sleep in sun.
8. Ignore owner.
9. Hack up hairball.
10. sleep...
Resty, I openly admit trying to turn out voters who polling indicated were overwhelmingly in favor of Huckabee.
The equally false headline you’re quoting aside, please explain how that equates to anything “anti-Mormon.”
If the Romney campaign urged LDS voters to turn out in support of Romney, would doing so be “anti-” every other church? (Of course not.)
When you’re through trying to explain something you can’t explain, please admit that you have no evidence of my posting messages “maligning” or “trashing LDS before,” and then apologize for your false accusations.
Your turn...
Resty, let me make this embarrasingly easy for you.
In the article whose misleading headline you’re quoting about voter turnout activity for Huckabee, please quote anything I said in that article which you characterize as “anti-Mormon.” I mean, point out the specific sentence in the article.
And remember, you accused me of posting messages “trashing” and “maligning” LDS folks. I did not post the article you’re quoting.
The solution is as simple now as the first time I asked:
(1) Post examples of your accusation (this is gonna be tough, since none exist), or
(2) Find the integrity to admit that you can’t back up your false accusation, and apologize.
I’m verrrrry patient, Resty...
A maximum requirement.
Having proven by silence to be guilty of bearing false witness, and unable (since it’s false) to back it up, Restornu has apparently taken his ball and gone home...
Having proven by silence to be guilty of bearing false witness, and unable (since it’s false) to back it up, Restornu has apparently taken his ball and gone home...
restornu has already answer you....
BTW
You and Huckabee make a great team!
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