Pope denies Berlusconi communion

BBC ^ | June 23, 2008

[ELS]

I was simply taken aback by the papal statement that those in "major" sin could not receive communion

In Catholic doctrine there are two types of sins - venial and mortal. The Pope was speaking of one who has committed a mortal sin and not gone to confession. That person would be in a state of mortal sin. One who has gone to confession and has had their confessed sins forgiven, has received actual sanctifying grace and is in a state of grace. They will remain in a state of grace (and able to receive Holy Communion) until they commit a mortal sin.

To receive Holy Communion while not in a state of grace (a state of mortal sin) is a sacrilege as well as a mortal sin. So, those CINO politicians who think they are getting away with receiving Holy Communion while thumbing their noses at the Church's teachings are really heaping burning coals upon themselves.

[Resolute Conservative]

That’s a good start but do they have the guts to deny to couples living together, spouses who cheat, people who routinely take the Lord’s name in vain, or persons convicted of immoral crimes. My guess would be no since that would cancel out most of the saints as it would in any church.

[Resolute Conservative]

So if you divorce and after a few years remarry ( and have kids ) and go to confession are you absolved? Does the church encourage those spouses to abandon the new spouse and children even after being forgiven? Two wrongs do not make a right.

Technically by the church’s doctrine one could divorce and remarry then go to confession and ask for forgiveness and be absolved and as long as they do not consummate their marriage before the next communion can partake of communion and then go home and have relations and start the cycle over again.

[OpusatFR]

“That’s a good start but do they have the guts to deny to couples living together, spouses who cheat, people who routinely take the Lord’s name in vain, or persons convicted of immoral crimes. My guess would be no since that would cancel out most of the saints as it would in any church.”

You seem to think that the priests have some superior knowledge and insight and frankly, psychic ability, to see into the minds, lives and habits of parishoners. We have over 700 families and I have no idea who is openly sinning. There is a sister parish with 2000. I’m very active in the church laity.
We do not discuss others. I do not gossip, nor would I tolerate it from others as they would not tolerate it from me.

If one confesses and amends their life, that is their matter. Our view of communion is of partaking the Body and Blood of Christ. By being in mortal sin, and taking the Host, one brings down sacrilige upon himself. It is that person’s responsibility. We hope all things in Charity.

I have only seen communion denied to one person and I have no idea why nor would I ask.

Each person has the personal responsibility to look inside himself and examine his conscience. That’s rigorous.

If I were you, and I am not, but using you as an example, I would begin by asking myself why I am posting. Is it because I wish to know something? Is it because I am trying to make something clear? Am I trying to discuss or am I trying to foment? Do I want an answer or do I just want to stir the pot? And so on.

That would be an example of examining my conscience. It is very rigorous. It is once again being taught and hopefully, our new generations will do better than us.

[Resolute Conservative]

Read the papers? See who is divorcing for what reasons. There are ways, but the church is selective on what they are willing to enforce so they do not offend too many parishoners. The affairs over the years that affected our church were well known and clergy turned a blind eye as did most members.

[OpusatFR]

Actually no. I don’t. I don’t read Obits either. Or the social registers.

Are or were you Catholic?

[ELS]

So if you divorce and after a few years remarry ( and have kids ) and go to confession are you absolved?

Not if your first marriage was a valid sacramental marriage. My reply to Terabittten was a general overview and did not address the complex issues of the sacrament of marriage. If your first marriage was invalid, then you could have received an annulment and remarried with the Church's blessing and be receiving Holy Communion when you are in a state of grace. However, if your first marriage was valid and you divorce and remarry you are prohibited from receiving Holy Communion (because you are committing adultery which is a mortal sin).

Does the church encourage those spouses to abandon the new spouse and children even after being forgiven?

Of course, NOT.

[markomalley]

Every time some one walks up to have communion and they have had an abortion ( allowed/facilitated one ), openly homosexual, is full of pride, overweight because they cannot stop eating, or cheating on their spouse they should be denied as well. For someone who is a sinner ( and all are including the Pope ) to deny to someone for a specific sin and no others who are continuing to sin as well is hypocritical ( a sin as well so the Pope should not take communion either ). Nobody is eligible for communion or all are. The church needs to admonish these persons and as a last resort shun them but as long as you let them in the door they should be allowed to participate in sacraments.

I cannot find any reference where Jesus turned anyone anyway from receiving His Grace and Blessing.

For Catholics

From the USCCB:

As Catholics, we fully participate in the celebration of the Eucharist when we receive Holy Communion. We are encouraged to receive Communion devoutly and frequently. In order to be properly disposed to receive Communion, participants should not be conscious of grave sin and normally should have fasted for one hour. A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to receive the Body and Blood of the Lord without prior sacramental confession except for a grave reason where there is no opportunity for confession. In this case, the person is to be mindful of the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, including the intention of confessing as soon as possible (canon 916). A frequent reception of the Sacrament of Penance is encouraged for all.

In other words, the Church agrees with you. As does St. Paul:

1Cr 11:27-29 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

Where people get up in arms, including this case, is because the individuals involved are public figures with public lives. What might be a private sin if one of us does so is a public scandal when done by one in the public eye.

[Jaded]

The Church’s stance is that he is committing adultry by divorcing and remarrying in the civil venue.

[Patriotic1]

Berlusconi should worry only about the Lord’s communion, not the pope’s. The Lord has never denied those that are repentant, and that is all Berlusconi should be concerned with.

We Catholics have a different view of things. Sounds like you're suggesting that he leave Catholicism over it.

Tell me, if he is repentant - doesn't that mean more than 'sorry'? Doesn't it mean changing the situation? If I steal your wallet, then I say I'm sorry, am I repentant? If I don't rectify the situation by returning wallet and money, I would say no.

No need to agree with the Catholic view of things obviously, but you are muddying the water.

[NYer]

The majority of the progressive(so-called)/liberal agenda involves the effort to make sin not sin.

Of course! It is their antidote to Judeo-Christian rules. But ultimately, no matter how many laws are amended or changed to 'legitimize' their lifestyle, their conscience rebels. These people will never know happiness. In the meantime, they will do their very best to destroy the norms that guide a civilized society.

[Salvation]

** Pope Benedict ruled out any change to the Church’s stance.**

Mt. Berlusconi needs to get this fixed.

[Salvation]

They are Catholics in Name Only and need to get things fixed right with the church too.

The Church has not changed; these CINOs have changed.

And the rest of the Catholic Church cannot be judged by them!

[Salvation]

Good for you! Receiving the Sacraments again will be such a blessing, won’t it?

[Salvation]

**Divorce is considered perfectly acceptable in this country**

But not in the Catholic Church. Why do you think the dimocrats and the media hate the Catholic Church so much? Go figure!

[Non-Sequitur]

But not in the Catholic Church.

But none of the leadership of the Catholic Church in this country has ever advocated publicly denying the sacraments to any politician or any parishoner who divorces and remarries. It's ignored.

[Salvation]

What You [Catholics] Need to Know: Marriage

[Salvation]

You must not have heard of Archbishops Rigali and Burke. Do the research.

[Salvation]

Or Bishop Brusketwitz and a host of others.

Paging our bishop expert.

[Salvation]

 

 

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2384  (671 bytes )  preview document matches 4 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2384.htm

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CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2385  (312 bytes )  preview document matches 5 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2385.htm

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CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2400  (97 bytes )  preview document matches 0 Adultery, divorce, polygamy, and free union are grave offenses against the dignity of marriage. URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2400.htm

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CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1650  (919 bytes )  preview document matches 0 Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1650.htm

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CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1664  (276 bytes )  preview document matches fertility are essential to marriage. Polygamy is incompatible with the unity of marriage; divorce separates what God has joined together; the refusal of fertility URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1664.htm

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CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2386  (379 bytes )  preview document matches 6 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2386.htm

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CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2383  (327 bytes )  preview document matches the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law. If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2383.htm

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CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1614  (384 bytes )  preview document matches of man and woman as the Creator willed it from the beginning permission given by Moses to divorce one's wife was a concession to the hardness of hearts. The matrimonial URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1614.htm

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CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1610  (473 bytes )  preview document matches carries traces of man's "hardness of heart" which was the reason Moses permitted men to divorce their wives. URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1610.htm

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10:	CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2727  (795 bytes )  preview document matches against activism; but in fact, Christian prayer is neither an escape from reality nor a divorce from life URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2727.htm