Posted on 06/23/2008 9:48:46 AM PDT by NYer
"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."
If you read Romans, you’ll know. :)
We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
Do you think it means that, since Berlusconi was baptized, he can leave one wife for another woman and it doesn't count as sin against him? Or does it mean, how can he do such a thing, since he has "died to sin"?
Or maybe you're thinking it applies to the bishop he talked to? Or the Pope? How is the Pope to understand it vis à vis the Gospel strictures against divorce?
Seriously, how do you personallty apply it here?
Read Romans and we’ll talk about it.
In other words, you have no idea what you meant, if anything . . . ok . . .
Not at all. I think Berlusconi's a dirtball for leaving his wife. I was simply taken aback by the papal statement that those in "major" sin could not receive communion, because the Bible states that there is no condemnation for those in Christ. I have so many questions about that statement that I don't even know where to start.
What about Giuliani?
What about a host of American left-wing politicians who are divorced and openly support abortion?
If they don't amend their ways in this life, then they will for it in the next.
God is merciful, but He is also just.
I still do not think this church sacrament is done right. Every time some one walks up to have communion and they have had an abortion ( allowed/facilitated one ), openly homosexual, is full of pride, overweight because they cannot stop eating, or cheating on their spouse they should be denied as well. For someone who is a sinner ( and all are including the Pope ) to deny to someone for a specific sin and no others who are continuing to sin as well is hypocritical ( a sin as well so the Pope should not take communion either ). Nobody is eligible for communion or all are. The church needs to admonish these persons and as a last resort shun them but as long as you let them in the door they should be allowed to participate in sacraments.
I cannot find any reference where Jesus turned anyone anyway from receiving His Grace and Blessing.
For the most part, people get the benefit of the doubt — could be they’ve repented and confessed and are doing their best to amend their lives. Public sin flaunted in the papers pretty much rules out that possibility.
I will go out on a limb here and say I do not believe the RCC is correct in its implementation of communion. As the last supper when Christ was breaking bread and performing the first communion He knew well what was in the hearts of the apostles and what sins they would commit ( specifically Peter and Judas but other as well through out their lives ) and He did not exclude anyone. It is arrogance that man thinks he can omit someone for sin where he himself is sinful.
If you want to get all into continuing state of sin then think about the lies or cheating someone does against someone. They receive forgiveness but their sin still has lasting ramifications sometimes for years so their sin still exists. It is the same premise applied to divorced persons who remarry why not apply it to liars, cheaters, grifters, molesters et. al. No sin is greater than any other lest one.
Hypocrisy and control is why.
That's generally true, but some choose to live as brother and sister, as a permanent commitment, and when demonstrated over a lengthy period of time Communion can then be granted.
You mean like open abortion advocates, adulterers that have open affairs ( like the countless celebs ) or live together, business people who get caught cheating on taxes/investments etc... When was the last time one of those persons was denied communion?
Denial is a convenient way for the Church to make a political statement against one person since I have yet to see a whole “classification” of people who are openly sinning denied.
They generally stay away from dioceses with bishops who are inclined to enforce Church teaching. Sadly, some don’t — but they’re mostly nearing retirement age.
The majority of the progressive(so-called)/liberal agenda involves the effort to make sin not sin.
Berlusconi should worry only about the Lord’s communion, not the pope’s. The Lord has never denied those that are repentant, and that is all Berlusconi should be concerned with.
“I have yet to see a whole “classification” of people who are openly sinning denied.”
The rainbow sash contingent is always denied communion as they parade in their sashes to the altar on Pentecost.
“I have yet to see a whole “classification” of people who are openly sinning denied.”
The rainbow sash contingent is always denied communion as they parade in their sashes to the altar on Pentecost.
FYI
“Rainbow Sash Member to Disrupt Masses Across United States, Again
By John Jalsevac
CHICAGO, May 24, 2007 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Rainbow Sash Movement (RSM), the group of homosexual activists that self-describes itself as “Catholic” despite its open stance against significant moral teachings of the Church, announced today that they will again be “challenging the Catholic Church’s hierarchy” this upcoming Pentecost Sunday, May 27.”
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/may/07052507.html
Here’s another one:
“Bishop Leo T. Maher of the Roman Catholic Diocese of San Diego, CA, issued an order denying communion to Catholics who were “members of pro-abortion groups such as the National Organization for Women.” The pastoral letter, which was read or distributed at every Mass in the 512,000-member diocese the following Sunday, singled NOW out for its “shameless agitation” in favor of abortion and stated NOW members were not to receive the sacraments. (04/08/75)
About 350 persons attended a demonstration to protest an order by San Diego Roman Catholic Bishop Leo Maher denying communion to Catholic members of NOW who advocate abortion. At least a dozen San Diego NOW women wearing conspicuous NOW buttons were denied Communion at St. Brigid’s Church in Pacific Beach CA, site of the demonstration, after they told the parish priest they did not support the church’s anti-abortion views. Other demonstrations included pickets from the Pro-Abortion League in front of St. Joseph’s Cathedral in downtown San Diego, and 50 pickets from Women in Law demonstrating in front of the University of San Diego’s Immaculata Chapel.”
http://feminist.org/research/chronicles/fc1975.html
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