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MEATLESS FRIDAYS and the Official Church Law (Surprise!)
Life Enterprises Unlimited ^ | Father David C. Trosch

Posted on 02/28/2006 10:01:19 AM PST by NYer

MEATLESS  FRIDAYS

and  the

Official  Church  Law


The National Conference of Catholic
(American) Bishops - NCCB

Studies Returning
Meatless Fridays



       The vast majority of Catholics today do not know that there is an existing obligation to abstain from meat on all Fridays of the year. While it is true that the Code of Canon Law allows for the substituting of another penitential practice, authorized by the NCCB, one has not been defined. As a consequence the abiding custom of the Church has been set aside. Neither bishops nor priests, with rare exception, inform the faithful of their obligations. Laxity and indifference have become the rule throughout most of the American Church in all matters of faith and morals. The congregations are being led straight into Hell.

       Laxity and indifference are particularly notable in relation to human life. As the value of life expands in its deterioration, the bishops continue their practice of public posturing. As noted in the news article following the quotations from the Code of Canon Law, the bishops are now consideringg the possibility of reintroducing that which is, in essence, already the existing law of the Catholic Church.


       If the average Catholic were asked if they abstain from meat on Fridays, they would say no. If asked what penitential practice they have substituted in place of not eating meat, they would commonly say none.

       Bishops, and the priests in their jurisdictions, have long neglected to teach about the obligatory requirement of either abstaining from meat on all Fridays of the year, or of substituting another observance. They have sinned by omission. It should be noted that even Pope Paul VI's variance in Paenitemini of 17 February, 1966 did not abrogate (terminate) the obligation to at least substitute another form of penitential practice.

       The bishops are proposing to possibly have Catholics -- do what they were commonly supposed to be doing anyway (NOTE: Most Catholics no longer believe in condemnatory sin and consequently do not go to obligatory confession when in grave sin. It is probable that today there are more Catholics with non-Catholic beliefs than there are Protestants.) -- express their concerns in regard to abortion and euthanasia by abstinence (not eating the meat of mammals, amphibians, reptiles, and fowl). This might to some seem an improvement to expressing the need for prayer in regard to the multitudes of innocent people daily being slaughtered by Godless people. During the seven month period of time intervening between making the proposal to discuss and actually possibly discussing the proposal their will have been between one-half million and over five million people legally murdered in America. Obviously they do not consider this to be a matter of grave concern.

What else could be said or done?

  1. Strongly remind Catholics of their obligation to oppose evil.
  2. Start instructing Catholics of the sinfulness of voting for pro-euthanasia, pro-abortion, and pro-sodomite political candidates at all levels of government.
  3. Remind people that works (Mat. 25:45-46 & James 2:10, 14, 17) are the required evidence of the faith that is needed to get into Heaven, and that apathy and indifference are condemnatory.
  4. Tell Catholics to pray and/or protest at all hospitals and clinics that terminate innocent human life from the instant of conception to natural death.
  5. Tell Catholics that if they are not able to act as stated above that they can write letters of protest to government officials, or articles to editors of newspapers.
  6. Encourage the fainthearted that at least they should protest the selling or showing of pornography at book stores, video stores, grocery stores, movie theaters, etc.
  7. Start church committees to help people get active in opposing evil and to associate them with someone of like mind so that they can act at least in pairs.
  8. Remind Catholics that cowards do not enter Heaven -- EVER.



The  CODE  of  CANON  LAW - Original Latin Text copyright 1983 Liberia Editrice
Vaticana, Vatican City – Book IV The Sanctifying Office of the Church

Chapter II

DAYS OF PENANCE

Can. 1249  All Christ's faithful are obliged by divine law, each in his or her own way, to do penance. However, so that all may be joined together in a certain common practice of penance, days of penance are prescribed. On these days the faithful are in a special manner to devote themselves to prayer, to engage in works of piety and charity, and to deny themselves, by fulfilling their obligations more faithfully and especially by observing the fast and abstinence which the following canons prescribe.

Can. 1250  The days and times of penance for the universal Church are each Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251  Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1252  The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Can. 1253  The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety.

(Emphasis has been added.)                Canon Law Society of America: Text & Commentary



TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; fridays; lent; meat; meatless; nosurprise; pennance
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first previous 1-5051-98 last
To: siunevada
Check out the Orthodox sometime. They do some real heavy duty fast and abstinence during Lent. We Latins are pretty lightweight in discipline compared to them.

Speak for yourself!

51 posted on 02/28/2006 12:30:42 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker

I asked what the repercussions were to eating meat.


52 posted on 02/28/2006 12:45:28 PM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: Notwithstanding

Of course, real fasting is NOT EATING AT ALL -- a far cry from this convenient food-group-specific practice, which is more similar to the Muslim 'fasting' during Ramadan wherein they can eat all they want after dark.


53 posted on 02/28/2006 12:56:16 PM PST by Sloth (Archaeologists test for intelligent design all the time.)
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To: NYer

I remember I when I was at the Archdiocese and I tried to discuss this self same discipline (it had been covered by Fr. Corapi the night before) with a Priest who I was friendly with (awesome guy btw) and he told me "don't believe everything you hear on EWTN"

I was disappointed, he doesn't promote any heterodoxy and is a great guy, but still.....


54 posted on 02/28/2006 1:00:06 PM PST by Cheverus
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To: Sloth

is "real fasting" defined in scripture, or are you trying to make men slaves to your definition?


55 posted on 02/28/2006 1:00:12 PM PST by Notwithstanding (I love my German shepherd - Benedict XVI reigns!)
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To: Sloth

Does yout definition mean no water and no milkshakes (you did say eaing nothing at all)?
A person dies without water for 40 days - did you know that?
Did Jesus go without water for 40 days?
Was Jesus fully human?


56 posted on 02/28/2006 1:03:02 PM PST by Notwithstanding (I love my German shepherd - Benedict XVI reigns!)
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To: Notwithstanding

Thank you for the handy link. I have a hobby of getting into email debates with anti-Catholic website owners. I typically use the website "Biblical Truths for Baptists" (http://members.aol.com/uticacw/baptist/bibletruth.html), but this will add another weapon to my arsenal.


57 posted on 02/28/2006 1:16:55 PM PST by AlaninSA (It's one nation under God -- brought to you by the Knights of Columbus)
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To: stuartcr
I asked what the repercussions were to eating meat.

To willfully eat meat when the authorities of the Church asks us to abstain as a communal penance is a mortal sin of disobedience to the lawful authorities in the Church, who must answer to God for the state of our souls. They have enacted a law for our benefit, and it is our duty to understand the law and follow it to achieve the divine benefits of what it commands and proposes that we might receive in return.

"Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow ... Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you." (Hebrews 13.7, 17)

Those who will not "hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican." (St. Matthew 18.17). The disobedient will be cut-off as performing works of the flesh "enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects" (Galatians 5.20).

58 posted on 02/28/2006 1:25:40 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Owl_Eagle
You have no one to blame but yourself if you didn't find salvation through making macaroni pictures of The Manger.

LOL! You can always just glue a pre-cooked block of romin noodles to a sheet of red construction paper and say it's souls writhing in hell. Of course that's not salvatory either, but maybe it's something.

59 posted on 02/28/2006 1:27:32 PM PST by Puddleglum (Thank God the Boston blowhard lost)
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To: Sloth
Of course, real fasting is NOT EATING AT ALL -- a far cry from this convenient food-group-specific practice

Fasting has two parts - to reduce overall intake (fasting proper), and to abstain from items of luxury in what we do eat (abstinence) for necessary sustenance during the fast.

which is more similar to the Muslim 'fasting' during Ramadan wherein they can eat all they want after dark.

The Catholic fast is traditionally limited to one small collation after noon time that is less than half of what you would normally eat (i.e. instead of a sandwich and apple and sode for lunch, just an apple and a cup of water), and one regular meal at night. No breakfast, no snacks, and no real lunch. Additionally, during the fast, various foods are completely done away with (meat, broths, cheese, eggs, etc.) for the duration of the fast period.

There is no gorging on food and luxuries after dark.

60 posted on 02/28/2006 1:29:49 PM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: NYer

Just a clarification.

Who are these guys:
The National Conference of Catholic
(American) Bishops - NCCB

I've heard of the USCCB, but not of the NCCB.

Just wondering.

Thanks.


61 posted on 02/28/2006 1:36:07 PM PST by DTwistedSisterS
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To: Sloth; Campion; bremenboy

"those infidel Douay-Rheims translators"

I don't know. Compare your contribution:

Now the Spirit manifestly saith that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error and doctrines of devils, speaking lies in hypocrisy and having their conscience seared, forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful and by them that have known the truth. -- I Timothy 4:1-3

with the actual Douay-Rheims translation: (subtitled "Lying teachers")

Now the Spirit expressly says that in after times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of devils, 2 speaking lies hypocritically, and having their conscience branded. 3 They will forbid marriage, and will enjoin abstinence from foods, which God has created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by the faithful and by those who know the truth.


62 posted on 02/28/2006 1:54:39 PM PST by Daffy
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To: NYer

Realizing how hard it was to remember to do penance on Fridays, my hubby and I decided to go back to the meatless Fridays. I like it because the need to do something different reminds us why we are doing it - to commemorate Jesus' sufferings, and keep them fresh in our minds.

These little signs are (or ought to be) signals to ourselves and others of our personal committment.

And that is a good thing.


63 posted on 02/28/2006 2:51:19 PM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: zerosix
Precisely what does "meatless Fridays" have to do with the teachings of Christ?

Why not troll elsewhere?
64 posted on 02/28/2006 2:59:47 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: zerosix
Does that mean that if Catholics "sacrifice" the eating of meat on Fridays, desserts during Lent, etc. that they have a better relationship with Jesus Christ? Or do people get used to abstaining this or that during proscribed times decided upon by the Catholic hierarchy and do it as a rule without ever spending time daily in prayer and actually asking God's for a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, as well as forgiveness for one's sins; daily Bible Study and meditation on the message that they have just read?

I'm not trying to be contentious here,

Baloney.
65 posted on 02/28/2006 3:02:02 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: Notwithstanding
Our clergy do all our mediation and contemplation. We don't have to pray. We don't have to think. We just pay enough money and "shazam" we get into heaven. Its kind of like being saved. It's such a sweet deal.

On another note, fasting helps me to worship Mary and the rest of the Holy Square better.
66 posted on 02/28/2006 3:06:35 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: Sloth
Of course, real fasting is NOT EATING AT ALL -- a far cry from this convenient food-group-specific practice, which is more similar to the Muslim 'fasting' during Ramadan wherein they can eat all they want after dark.

Feel free to fast how you feel works best and makes you more of a macho man.
67 posted on 02/28/2006 3:08:00 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: zerosix

He established the Catholic Church to teach in His name


68 posted on 02/28/2006 3:19:46 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: zerosix
Lent is a time of prayer, fasting and giving alms. It includes all you suggest but much more. It includes Communion/Eucharist. And there is nothing that better establishes a personal relationship with Jesus.

His Body and Blood builds upon and transforms our nature making us partakers of His Divine Nature

2 Peter...By whom he hath given us most great and precious promises: that by these you may be made partakers of the divine nature: flying the corruption of that concupiscence which is in the world

*Your good nature can be perfected by the Grace of Jesus in the Sacramental System in the Church Jesus established as His Ark of Salvation.

Have a Blessed Lent, brother

69 posted on 02/28/2006 3:29:16 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: Daffy; Campion; bremenboy

Odd. Is there more than one version of the Douay-Rheims? All of these sites concur with what I posted:

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=1ti+4:3&version=rhe&context=1&showtools=1
http://catholicfirst.com/thefaith/bible/1timothy.cfm
http://www.drbo.org/chapter/61004.htm
http://www.biblehelpsonline.com/lp-douay_rheims_1899/1Timothy.htm
http://www.greeknewtestament.com/christianisrael/douay/B54C004.htm
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bible/douayr.iTim.4.html?bcb=0


70 posted on 02/28/2006 4:06:16 PM PST by Sloth (Archaeologists test for intelligent design all the time.)
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To: Campion

Dude, you are on a roll!

F


71 posted on 02/28/2006 4:39:06 PM PST by Frank Sheed ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." ~GK Chesterton.)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
my hubby and I decided to go back to the meatless Fridays. I like it because the need to do something different reminds us why we are doing it - to commemorate Jesus' sufferings, and keep them fresh in our minds.

And that is precisely the spirit in which this abstinence was developed. It is such a small share in the sufferings of our Lord - a gnawing reminder of what He accomplished for us as well as a grateful acknowledgement.


72 posted on 02/28/2006 4:41:52 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: DTwistedSisterS

The USCCB used to be the NCCB. Changed the name about 5-10 years ago.


73 posted on 02/28/2006 4:44:05 PM PST by Nihil Obstat
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To: NYer

Will this mean the return of tha Baloot boys to the streets of Manila?

Every Friday you could hear their cries....Baaaloooot! BaaaLooot!

Balot is a ready to hatch chick which though meat is an egg and legal on Friday in heavily Catholic Manila.


74 posted on 02/28/2006 4:46:52 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. Once an Eagle....always an Eagle)
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To: NYer; Knitting A Conundrum

Nice post, NYer! I've given up meat again too for the past several years when I finally actually read the entire discipline of the NCCB (which was totally ignored). A cheese sandwich on Fridays and the fish or veggies on Friday night sure focus my mind on the memorial of Good Friday! So do the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary.

F


75 posted on 02/28/2006 4:50:01 PM PST by Frank Sheed ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." ~GK Chesterton.)
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To: Campion; zerosix
Any Catholic who doesn't take time to pray every day, though -- not just during Lent but all year -- just plain isn't doing it right.

Here again, we are following the lead of our Lord and Savior who prayed to His Father for those who had been entrusted to Him. They, in turn, prayed for those entrusted to them down through these 2000 years. The forms of prayer are so beautiful and varied. For the past several months, I have been praying the Maronite Divine Office. Like the Jewish tradition it followed, it begins with the evening prayers of Ramsho and culminates with the morning prayers of Safro . These include the praying of Psalms and readings from Scripture.

It only takes 20 minutes to follow these beautiful prayers. They put a smile on my face in the morning and enfold me with their warmth in the evening.

76 posted on 02/28/2006 4:54:13 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: sassbox; Campion; ken5050
I sure am going to miss this place - starting tomorrow I'm giving up FReeping for Lent.

Now see here! I can understand the motivation - denial of something pleasurable - but you could not have picked a worse time to absent yourself from FR. During Lent, the postings are often spiritual in nature, drawing you closer to God. It's your call - and other have done this as well - but, trust me :-) - Lent is when we pull out all the spiritual stops and try to rouse christians in their Lenten practices.

You may want to check in periodically to see if there are any important posts such as the pope's Stations of the Cross on Good Friday. Last year when JPII was so ill, it fell upon the shoulder of (then) Cardinal Ratzinger to lead the stations. When he reached #9, his comments drew instantaneous media attention. This is what he said:

* * * * *

 
Via Crucis, Scuola Veneta - Sec. XVIII
Cattedrale - Padova

NINTH STATION
Jesus falls for the third time

V/. Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi.
R/. Quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.

From the Book of Lamentations. 3:27-32

It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth. Let him sit alone in silence when he has laid it on him; let him put his mouth in the dust - there may yet be hope; let him give his cheek to the smiter, and be filled with insults. For the Lord will not cast off for ever, but, though he cause grief, he will have compassion, according to the abundance of his steadfast love.


MEDITATION

What can the third fall of Jesus under the Cross say to us? We have considered the fall of man in general, and the falling of many Christians away from Christ and into a godless secularism. Should we not also think of how much Christ suffers in his own Church? How often is the holy sacrament of his Presence abused, how often must he enter empty and evil hearts! How often do we celebrate only ourselves, without even realizing that he is there! How often is his Word twisted and misused! What little faith is present behind so many theories, so many empty words! How much filth there is in the Church, and even among those who, in the priesthood, ought to belong entirely to him! How much pride, how much self-complacency! What little respect we pay to the Sacrament of Reconciliation, where he waits for us, ready to raise us up whenever we fall! All this is present in his Passion. His betrayal by his disciples, their unworthy reception of his Body and Blood, is certainly the greatest suffering endured by the Redeemer; it pierces his heart. We can only call to him from the depths of our hearts: Kyrie eleison – Lord, save us (cf. Mt 8: 25).

PRAYER

Lord, your Church often seems like a boat about to sink, a boat taking in water on every side. In your field we see more weeds than wheat. The soiled garments and face of your Church throw us into confusion. Yet it is we ourselves who have soiled them! It is we who betray you time and time again, after all our lofty words and grand gestures. Have mercy on your Church; within her too, Adam continues to fall. When we fall, we drag you down to earth, and Satan laughs, for he hopes that you will not be able to rise from that fall; he hopes that being dragged down in the fall of your Church, you will remain prostrate and overpowered. But you will rise again. You stood up, you arose and you can also raise us up. Save and sanctify your Church. Save and sanctify us all.

 

All:

Pater noster, qui es in cælis:
sanctificetur nomen tuum;
adveniat regnum tuum;
fiat voluntas tua, sicut in cælo, et in terra.
Panem nostrum cotidianum da nobis hodie;
et dimitte nobis debita nostra,
sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris;
et ne nos inducas in tentationem;
sed libera nos a malo.

Eia mater, fons amoris,
me sentire vim doloris
fac, ut tecum lugeam.

* * * * *

And this was before he was elected pontiff! Imagine this year!


77 posted on 02/28/2006 5:05:59 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: old and tired
I think there is an awareness of this coming back and I think we can thank Dr. Atkins.

Thanks but I give more credit to those catholics who seek to unite themselves to the suffering Savior.

78 posted on 02/28/2006 5:09:44 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer
I know there's a lot of great stuff here during Lent - last year I helped out with the Roman station church threads. But this year I really need to do this. I've become a horrible procrastinator and the internet has played no small role in this. I need to spend more time on my schoolwork. I need to spend more time doing many other things besides surfing the internet.

Also sometimes coming on here is not fun but ends up upsetting me. I either get overly anxious and frustrated about things going on in the world that I can do nothing about myself (Iran, terrorism, the border, etc) or I become uncharitable in heart, if not in posting, towards certain other FReepers.

I will miss this place terribly, but it will be good to take a break for awhile and use the time to focus on other things. I'll be back at Easter, hopefully much more temperant in my internet usage by then!
79 posted on 02/28/2006 6:10:22 PM PST by sassbox
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To: bert

I've heard that the capibara is also OK to eat on Lenten Fridays. It is basically a giant hamster but it spends most of its time in the waters of the Amazon river.


80 posted on 02/28/2006 6:13:32 PM PST by sassbox
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To: Sloth

Yes, it is odd. Thank you for the many links, all of which seem to have the save version, one publishd by John Murphy Co. in 1899 . I've learned a lot this evening. The catholicfirst.com lists in its introductory notes: "This revision [Challoner] became the 'de facto' standard text for English speaking Catholics until the twentieth century. It is still highly regarded by many for its style, although it is now rarely used for liturgical purposes."

from drbo.org: "The DR Bible was photographically reproduced from the 1899 edition of the John Murphy Company, Baltimore, Maryland, by Tan Books in 1971. The Challoner revision [1750] of the Douay-Rheims Bible ... became the standard Catholic Bible in English until the mid-20th century (when the Confraternity Bible was published). It continued to be called the "Douay-Rheims" because of its similarity to the original Douay-Rheims Bible."

The verses posted to you are from The Holy Trinity Editon published by The Catholic Press, Inc. Chicago, Illinois, (1951), where introductory remarks state: "The New Testament is the Confraternity revision of the Challoner-Rheims version."


81 posted on 02/28/2006 7:01:30 PM PST by Daffy
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To: sassbox
I will miss this place terribly, but it will be good to take a break for awhile and use the time to focus on other things. I'll be back at Easter, hopefully much more temperant in my internet usage by then!

I understand perfectly! The tv is off in my home for similar reasons. Rest assured of my prayers for a blessed Lent! Look forward to your return at Easter.

82 posted on 02/28/2006 7:12:47 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: Nihil Obstat

Thank you.


83 posted on 02/28/2006 8:00:05 PM PST by DTwistedSisterS
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To: sassbox
Oh we had mandatory religious instruction (CCD) every week when I was a kid (80s and 90s). Unfortunately it mostly consisted of self-esteem lessons and art projects and precious little actual religious instruction.

I finished a few years ago, but I have a sister and brother in religious-ed classes. It seems that as time went on in my parish, the quality (and actual religious instruction) of said classes has decreased considerably.

84 posted on 02/28/2006 8:39:07 PM PST by rzeznikj at stout (This is a darkroom. Keep the door closed or you'll let all the dark out...)
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To: zerosix; GatorGirl; maryz; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; livius; goldenstategirl; ...

Our Lord was crucified on a Friday. To remember and honor His ultimate and perfect sacrifice, we are reminded by the Church He founded to do this small penance weekly. This weekly reminder that it was OUR SIN that crucified Our Lord is there to help us on our path to sanctity. Our Lord encourages us to "Go and SIN NO MORE". We ought to listen to Him, don't you think?


85 posted on 02/28/2006 9:24:26 PM PST by narses (St Thomas says “lex injusta non obligat”)
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To: NYer

About a year ago, my pastor started talking about this subject. I think the new bishop had something to do with this. We must abstain from meet on all Fridays during the year.


86 posted on 02/28/2006 9:40:41 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: b4its2late

Also abstaining from meat on Ash Wednesday!


87 posted on 02/28/2006 9:55:26 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: stuartcr
What are the repercussions of eating meat on Fridays?

From what I can figure out from the first paragraph of the article, meat on Friday => laxity and indifference => straight to hell.

88 posted on 02/28/2006 10:03:53 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: zerosix
Does that mean that if Catholics "sacrifice" the eating of meat on Fridays, desserts during Lent, etc. that they have a better relationship with Jesus Christ?

There are alot of things in Catholic tradition (long or short term) that could be misunderstood when taken out of context. Lent for example is much more than not eating meat on Fridays and Ash Wednesday (which apparently happens to be the minimal ammount of fasting in cannon law). It also requires increased prayer, penance, almsgiving, works of mercy thoughout the whole 40 days. Personally I look forward to lent for all these things as a whole, and yes I have a better relationship with Jesus Christ for it.

I suppose the discussion about the meatless Fridays and Ash Wednesday gets a disproportionate share of the discussion on Lent because in cafeterias around the world Catholics are refraning from eating flesh-meat, and their co-workers/students instantly do a double-take and spark up a conversation.

Jesus fasted before his death...And Fasting is especially encouraged during Lent..Fridays and Ash Wednesday are the minimum, but obviously we can fast daily if we desire - just like Muslims do during Ramadan

89 posted on 02/28/2006 10:52:30 PM PST by right-wingin_It
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To: zerosix

'…I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.' Mattew 26:29


90 posted on 02/28/2006 11:06:04 PM PST by right-wingin_It
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To: Larry Lucido

I can only hope that you're kidding. If not, do you really believe that God would sentence someone to an eternity of suffering, just for being lax and indifferent?


91 posted on 03/01/2006 4:46:23 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: zerosix

This may help you to understand:

http://www.ewtn.com/faith/lent/history.htm


92 posted on 03/01/2006 4:55:16 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
Realizing how hard it was to remember to do penance on Fridays, my hubby and I decided to go back to the meatless Fridays. I like it because the need to do something different reminds us why we are doing it - to commemorate Jesus' sufferings, and keep them fresh in our minds.

These little signs are (or ought to be) signals to ourselves and others of our personal committment.

**************

I couldn't agree more.

93 posted on 03/01/2006 5:08:51 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Larry Lucido
From what I can figure out from the first paragraph of the article, meat on Friday => laxity and indifference => straight to hell.

*************

LOL!

94 posted on 03/01/2006 5:18:39 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer
Thanks but I give more credit to those catholics who seek to unite themselves to the suffering Savior.

Oops. I guess I didn't express myself very well. I think for so many years no meat was not a sacrifice. Now, that people have put more meat into their diets, it has become a sacrifice again. That's a good thing.

95 posted on 03/01/2006 7:51:03 AM PST by old and tired (Run Swannie, run!)
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To: Sloth

Well, to begin with, the context of your citation from 1Timothy 4 puts St. Paul's observation about abstinence from meat in the "last days." Lent, as a practice, goes back to near the very beginning of the Church, so, contextually, he's evidently *not* equating the temporary abstinence involved in Lent with what he's talking about in the passage.

Second, note that Lent is, by its nature, a *temporary*, penitential abstinence from meat and other things, for the good of the soul. The passage is referring to those who will teach, as a matter of doctrine, the forbidding of all meats or certain meats (as was and is, for example, the practice of Jews and Moslems with regard to pork, and other religions regarding meat in general) on a *permanent* basis.

Third, the more modern version of Lent, at least among Catholics, is highly truncated in it dietary regulations compared to former discipline, and is barely penitential at all. Unless one personally desires to self-impose a tougher fast all through Lent (recommended still by many), one is only *required* to abstain from meat during Ash Wednesday and the Fridays of Lent, and further, to "fast" on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. This "fast" is pretty minimal, allowing one full, meatless meal and up to two "smaller meals" to maintain strength, as each person's situation warrants. How tough or really restrictive is that? And even *this* only applies, in the fullest sense, to those between 18 and 59! One is certainly free to be more demanding on oneself, but what I've stated is the minimum "required." Not too tough at all!

Finally, no Catholic or other Christian who incorporates Lent as part of their denominations' tradition *ever* violates the spirit of verses 4 & 5 (which you conveniently omit), since, the rest of the year (and even during the Sundays within Lent!) we acknowledge, as the verses say, that "everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving; for then it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer." In short, I plan, as an individual Catholic, on having beef, pork, lamb and the rest on Sundays during Lent, and throughout the year outside of it. And I will be plenty thankful to God for His bounty, as St. Paul recommends.

Please tell me how this counters what he says in 1Timothy 4:1-5 in its proper context.


96 posted on 03/01/2006 9:12:27 AM PST by magisterium
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To: zerosix

This guy has a few comments on Catholic Lenten practices and Scripture:

Lent should be a time for deeper meditation on the word of God, which will lead to conversion and to concrete acts of charity, said Pope Benedict XVI.

"Lent stimulates us to allow our lives to be penetrated by the word of God and in that way to know the fundamental truth about who we are, where we come from, where we are going and what is the path we must follow in our lives," the pope said March 1, Ash Wednesday and the beginning of Lent in the Latin-rite Catholic Church.

Speaking at his weekly general audience, held under a light rain in St. Peter's Square, the pope urged Catholics to allow themselves to be "nourished with the abundance of the word of God" during Lent.

In his main audience talk, sprinkled with explanations not contained in his prepared text, the pope looked at the two phrases used when distributing ashes: "Remember that you are dust and to dust you will return" and "Turn away from sin and be faithful to the Gospel."

The first, he said, is a reminder that people have fallen and have limits, and it "is meant to urge us to place all our hope in God alone."

Lent is a time of "fasting, penance and vigilance over ourselves, knowing that the struggle against sin never ends because temptation is an everyday reality, and fragility and disillusionment are experienced by everyone," the pope said.

The admonition to "convert and believe in the Gospel," he said, "places firm and faithful adhesion to the Gospel at the foundation of personal and communal renewal."

"The Christian life is a life of faith founded and nourished on the word of God," he said. "In the trials of life and before every temptation, the secret of victory consists in listening to the word of truth and decisively refusing falsehood and evil.

"This is the real program of the Lenten period: to listen to the word of truth, to live, speak and act in truth and to refuse falsehood, which poisons humanity and is at the root of all evil," the pope said.

One who follows the truth, meditates on the Gospel and draws closer and closer to God, he said, also "sees others with new eyes. He discovers his brothers and sisters and their needs."

"Because the truth of God is love, conversion to God is conversion to love," Pope Benedict said.

The "climate of Lent," he said, "is precisely the climate of love for our brothers and sisters" because it is a time for learning to see others with Christ's eyes.

Pope Benedict said because conversion includes a growing realization of the obligation to demonstrate love for one's neighbors charity and almsgiving are central to the Lenten practice.


97 posted on 03/01/2006 9:51:58 AM PST by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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To: Notwithstanding
I can't be bothered with any "personal relationship with Christ" business.

That sounds terrible. Do you really mean this, or are you being sarcastic?

If I didn't have a personal relationship with God through his Son, Jesus Christ, I would not want to live!

98 posted on 03/03/2006 7:54:20 PM PST by pray4liberty (Five, Going on Six, Years of Freeping!)
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