Posted on 12/16/2005 6:39:40 PM PST by Petrosius
What's wrong with having people build their church and pray in it? Why was it all OK for 120 years and is not OK for Burke? Why are you anti-Polish? Poland is a large, predominantly Catholic, country with almost as many Catholics as there are in the USA. Are they worse Catholics than any other ethnic minority in America?
You do not know much about the history of the Polish National Catholic Church in the USA. It revolved around parish property and the power-grab of Irish and German US Bishops. This story here is replay of it 120 years later. Only that the PNCC is not schismatic anymore.
When you look at all details of it you will realize that Burke abused his authority. This "excommunication" stunt may extend his stay in the Purgatory and will certainly not help his beatification. The smart move for the parish would be to join the PNCC.
I am certainly NOT anti-Polish. I revered the late John Paul the Great and Cardinal Wysczinski (sp.?), Sister Faustina, all of whom managed to be both Polish and Roman Catholic. The witness of Polish Catholicism (the actual kind and not the schismatic "trusteeism" of PNCC and the formerly Catholic St. Stanislaus Kostka former parish in St. Louis) is wonderful. The devotion to the Black Virgin of Czestochova (sp.?) and the tradition of "going to the mountain" in times of national crisis is also admirable.
What is wrong in St. Louis is the abject refusal of obedience to Archbishop Raymond Burke as diocesan ordinary by a group of poisonously rebellious laity who have forgotten that Roman Catholicism is not a "nationality" religion but a universal religion. It is governed from the Vatican and from the diocesan chanceries and the parish is the lowest level of authority (when in communion with Rome and the diocese as St. Stanislaus Kostka most certainly is not). The Roman Catholic Church is a hierarchical religion and not some congregational anarchy.
Given their antiCatholic mindset, the utterly unjustified rebels of St. Stanislaus Kostka may as well join the PN"C"C or become independent Protestants of whatever other sort. It would at least make them more honest. I am not going to indulge the fantasy that there is Roman Catholicism without Roman Authority and in rebellion against Roman Authority and against Diocesan Authority. If you are PN"C"C, have a blast but don't lie to yourself by calling yourself Catholic.
The PN"C"C can also avoid hanging portraits of John Paul the Great because his religion and theirs were clean different things since he was Catholic.
When the PN"C"C is in charge of how long bishops serve in Purgatory, I feel sure we will have it on better authority than the non-existent authority of the self-serving excommunicati of PN"C"C.
I would have precisely the same attitude as to Irish, German, English, Scottish or Scots-Irish (each of my ancestry groups) pretenders claiming Catholicism while defying Rome or the diocesan ordinary. Or Braziliams or Argentinians or Mexicans or Zambians or Siamese or Japanese or Chinese "Patriotic Association" or .........
They are not barred from Communion like all schismatics are, only asked to "respect the discipline of their own Church".
The rise of PNCC is the direct result of American Bishops' folly over material property. St. Stanislaus parish was founded over 120 years ago as independent property and it was to remain as such in perpetuity. The parish never received a penny of support from the diocese. If Burke asked me to give him my truck or house or get excommunicated, guess which one would I choose?
IBINB: When these rebellious trustees are prepared to obey their duly constituted archbishop, be sure to get back to me.
Individual bishops have individual authority when they are diocesan ordinaries. The Roman Catholic Church, however, is also not a democracy. Thank God! The USCCB (aka "AmChurch" for the most part) is a collective body without collective authority. Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz has no compunction telling them to go fly a kite as to his diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska. Nor should he.
The Vatican has actual authority. Did the Vatican approve Eastern Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East or PN"C"C schismatics to receive Roman Catholic communion????? I did not think so. Nor am I, as a Roman Catholic, allowed to receive the Eucharist of the Eastern Orthodox Churches either by my Church or by their Church. We have few differences in doctrine but we are not in communion.
Does the discipline of their own churches (capital C for the Eastern Orthodox Churches) bar them from receiving Roman Catholic Communion? I believe that to be the case of the Eastern Orthodox and I am pinging a respected Orthodox woman, Marmema, who would know better than I do and asking her to clarify the position of the Eastern Orthodox Churches. She is invited to ping others who are of the Eastern Orthodox Churches to add to her clarification.
Why am I listening to you if your truck is more important than your soul? Archbishop Burke is not demanding your truck in any event. God gave you free will to use or abuse. You choose to abuse.
The language YOU quoted necessarily recognizes that PN"C"C is NOT part of the Roman Catholic Church by referencing "their own churches."
Judas complained about money too.
Thievery is thievery is a sin, don't matter who commits it.
And the very reverend thieves may have the thermostat set a few notches up in the afterlife.
I would gladly give my truck and then some for the salvation of my immortal soul. But things don't work that way in the Roman Catholic Church. Burke, being a bishop should know that much. Judas was a bishop too. He stole money.
The November 6, 2005 homily has Fr. Bozek's creative interpretation of the Parable of the Ten Virgins.
The following was written by Rev. David Hulshof, who serves the Diocese of Springfield-Cape Girardeau as director of seminary students, in an article published December 30, 2005 titled Bozek responsible for rifts in church.
"Five years ago, Father Marek was looking for a diocese that would sponsor him in his desire to be a priest, and we responded.
After receiving letters of recommendation from Poland, we provided for Father Marek's language and theology studies."
Maybe someone else is asking why ...
Up the Magisterium!
'bout time!
This is good news.
Praying that the truth will come into the light...
You're pathetic.
Pearls before swine, Blackie (but I do admire your sense of duty).
No offense? LOL
Good ****** riddance.
LOL
St. Stanislaus Holds First Sunday Mass Since Receiving Notification Of Suppression
Created: 1/8/2006 6:28:05 PM
Updated: 1/9/2006 6:45:58 AM
By Rebecca Wu
(KSDK) - St. Stanislaus held its first Sunday Mass since the Archbishop of St. Louis notified its members they are no longer part of the Archdiocese.
During it's Polish Mass, they sang, they prayed and they received Holy Communion. But according to the Archbishop of St. Louis, they are no longer part of the Roman Catholic family. Parishioner Alice Kaminski took issue with that. She said, "I am Roman Catholic. I have always been a Roman Catholic, generations of my family have always been Roman Catholic. Who's saying I am not a Roman Catholic. I will be Roman Catholic until the day I die."
On Friday, Archbishop Raymond Burke notified the parish they cannot operate independently as a civil corporation and at the same time be part of the Roman Catholic church. Parishioner Anthony Kaminski said, "It makes me quite upset because it leads other people to think we are rebels and non-believers and there's nothing farther from the truth. We've been law-abiding parishioners of the church for all these years and that's not going to change."
During his homily, Father Mark Bozek talked about the issue of suppression saying this is not what Jesus would've done. He pointed out that the manger where Jesus was born included animals and pagans. Father Mark Bozek said, "Imagine the Archbishop being a gatekeeper at the manger scene. Would we have all these Magi coming to Jesus today? I'm afraid he would have said, 'I'm sorry guys you are not Roman Catholics, you can't come here, there's no room for you.' Well Jesus didn't."
But not all long-time members of St. Stanislaus are against the Archbishop. That's why they moved to St. Agatha to attend its Polish Mass. Former St. Stanislaus parishioner Wanda Brzyski said, "If you want to have a marriage, you need to follow marriage rules, if you do not follow you need to go out of the marriage, simple."
When asked why, they didn't have problems with St. Stanislaus being independent over the last century, they said there wasn't a conflict with the Archdiocese until now. That's why Alex Gorka left St. Stanislaus after 20 years. He said, "I'm very sad. that's my heart broken. But not Archbishop broke the church. The people there they broke the church. They're at fault for what happened there. Because we only got one church."
In response to why St. Stanislaus doesn't follow the same rules as other Catholic churches, Father Bozek said, "We are following the same rules. We are following all the dogmas of Catholic faith and the rules of discipline. The only question we have is the small administration rule."
That rule has to do with whether a lay board or the Archbishop should have final say and control of the church and its assets.
NewsChannel 5 contacted the Archdiocese of St. Louis and a spokesperson said nothing has changed from Friday when the notification of suppression was made.
St. Stanislaus is appealing the suppression and the ex-communication of its priest and board of directors. The Archdiocese spokesperson said they have not received official notice of the appeal.
http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=90394
[In the video they estimated 650 attended the english and polish masses]
http://www.ksdk.com/videoplayer/player.aspx?aid=28926&bw=
Uh, except for one kinda big one, called "obedience".
This is surreal. He is either stupid or completely out of his mind.
http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=90722
Group Defends Archbishop Raymond Burke
Created: 1/15/2006 6:24:17 PM
Updated: 1/15/2006 9:41:42 PM
By Rebecca Wu
(KSDK) A newly formed group has now jumped into the fray over St. Stanislaus.
The grassroots group calls itself "Defenders of Archbishop Burke." They showed their support at St. Agatha Parish on Sunday. Bill Mckenzie is the group's founder. Mckenzie said, "We are here to defend the Archbishop against attacks from people who are disgruntled."
Earlier this month, parishioners at St. Stanislaus were notified they were no longer part of the Roman Catholic Church since they continue to operate independently as a civil corporation. In December, the church's board of directors and priest were excommunicated by the Archbishop. McKenzie said, "People were calling radio talk shows, calling him Hitler, on-line forums with the newspaper, people calling him idiot, jerk, anti-Christ."
Mckenzie said he is not affiliated with either St. Stanislaus or the Archdiocese. He just wants to help mend the broken fence. Mckenzie said, "We have nothing against the people at St. Stanislaus. We think they are doing the wrong thing but we just want them to come back to the church."
Meanwhile at St. Stanislaus, parishioners said the hate-calling didn't come from their church. Parishioner Bernice Krauze said, "We don't have anything against him, he's still head of our church as far as we're concerned and we pray for him every week in our petitions for prayers."
In fact, Father Mark Bozek agreed with some of what the new group stands for. Father Bozek said, "I could actually become a member of this group because I want to defend his honor. I will defend the honor of every person of you and anybody who listens to us because we all are human beings and we all have our dignity and values as Christians and humans so none of us deserved to offended in any way."
Former members of St. Stanislaus who agree with the Archbishop have moved to St. Agatha. On Sunday, Father Czeslaw Litak, a native of Poland, was installed as their new pastor.
To contact "Defenders of Archbishop Burke:" DEFENDABPBURKE@SBCGLOBAL.NET.
For information about St. Stanislaus: St. Stanislaus.
For information from the Archdiocese: St. Louis Archdiocese.
KSDK
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