Egypt demands return of Rosetta Stone!

The Sunday Telegraph - UK ^ | July 20, 2003 | Charlotte Edwardes and Catherine Milner

[Calpernia]

Rosetta Stone

[MrsEmmaPeel]

However, the problem with that is that the brits would have a heck of a lot to return to the countries they stole stuff from: Egypt, Greece, the Middle East, India, S. Africa etc. etc. etc.

The marbles were recognized as stolen at the time (ref: Britsh report of 1816).

So what? Any country that was looted deserved to have their heritage returned to them. I find it amusing that there was an outcry when the Taliban blew up ancient statues of Buddha, yet there is little or no outcry for the crimes the British have done it the past -- Lord Elgin's theft of the marbles, his burning down the Summer Palace of the Chinese Emperor etc, etc.

The British have promised the Greeks the return of the marbles since the mid 1800s. Even Tony Blair's government promised, and of course, has gone back on their promise.

I guess if the British loots and blows up another's heritage, its ok, if anyone else does it, its "bad"?

And if the British who previously made numerous promises to restore the marbles fail to do so, that's ok too, because after all they're British?

[Right Wing Professor]

Anyway, despite the transition of government institutions over thousands of years, the Rosetta Stone is obviously an archaeological treasure of Egypts cultural past. IMHO, it should be returned to them, especially considering that they have now developed the cultural institutions to properly care for it.

Sure. And if an Islamist government takes over in a couple of years, and decides to destroy it, as the Taliban destroyed the Bamyan Buddhas, who cares about the loss to the world?

[Right Wing Professor]

I saw the marbles a couple of years ago. They looked like they were in fine shape; far better cared for than the Parthenon itself. What happened to them 200 years ago is surely irrelevant now.

'Ownership', it seems to me, is rather a nebulous point. The modern Greek state has no historical connection to ancient Athens; nor has modern Egypt any connection to the Rossetta stone. In the British Museum, anyone can go to see both and tons of other loot, free, without danger of being attacked by a religious fanatic. Both are being looked after responsibly; I say leave them there.

[Right Wing Professor]

Lord Elgin's theft of the marbles, his burning down the Summer Palace of the Chinese Emperor etc, etc.

Quite a remarkable feat, considering the two events occurred nearly 60 years apart.

[Willie Green]

And if an Islamist government takes over in a couple of years, and decides to destroy it, as the Taliban destroyed the Bamyan Buddhas, who cares about the loss to the world?

Not me, that's for sure.
When it comes right down to it, it's just a rock with a bunch of chicken scratchings on it that have already been translated and recorded elsewhere.

[Right Wing Professor]

And if an Islamist government takes over in a couple of years, and decides to destroy it, as the Taliban destroyed the Bamyan Buddhas, who cares about the loss to the world?

Not me, that's for sure.

Well, since you don't care about its fate, why don't you leave the debate to those who do?

[from occupied ga]

when neither the British civilzation nor English language had existed when these artifacts were created.

The current Egyption civilization and language bear no relationship to those present when the artifacts were created either. So which bunch of looters deserves them? If you go by geography, then the individuals dwelling on the current day sites have the best claim.

[Billthedrill]

Elgin actually did burn down the palace on a punitive military expedition to China in 1860 - seems the Emperor decided not to honor a flag of truce and seized the British envoys. Same feller. If Elgin hadn't, it would have gone up in 1967 anywho...

Heard a very interesting bit of current news about the Rosetta Stone on a visit to San Jose's Rosicrucian Egyptian Museum last month - it isn't really black at all. That's the ink that originally was put on by the French to do rubbings back when they found it, and nobody's touched it since. This was only found out a couple of months ago. It's pink underneath.

[Willie Green]

Well, since you don't care about its fate, why don't you leave the debate to those who do?

Because it's a property rights issue.
If you want to emulate the Hildebeast Klintoon arguement to usurp jurisdiction over property rights simply because you "care" more, and that it's "for the children", that's your problem, not mine.

[RightWhale]

It's pink underneath.

That's amusing to know. Our replica in the library is slate black.

[Alouette]

I thought the pyramids were the icon of Egyptian identity.

Q. Why is it illegal to swat a fly in Cairo?

A. Because it's the National Bird!

[Right Wing Professor]

Elgin actually did burn down the palace on a punitive military expedition to China in 1860 - seems the Emperor decided not to honor a flag of truce and seized the British envoys. Same feller.

Eighth Earl burned the summer palace. Seventh Earl took the marbles. Must have been that vandalism gene.

BTW, the Chinese did more than seize the envoys. They tortured them to death.

[Right Wing Professor]

Because it's a property rights issue.

So you're saying if I have an Etruscan vase in my study, bought and paid for legally, it can be repossessed by the Italian government 200 years after the fact, if they claim it's 'cultural heritage'. That's an interesting view of private property. Suppose the Indians want the land your house is built on?

[brownie]

Then should everything that was ever taken from anywhere be returned to the "original" owners? What about conquered lands? The gold taken from the Incas - should that be given to today's mexicans?

I think it belongs to England, and should remain in their until they decide otherwise. If not, we will continually be in a debate over who has the rights to what based on some imaginary tie to history.

[ASA Vet]

, I have little doubt that within 20 years someone would recommend
smashing it because it was a dangerous alien influence.

Well before 20 years have past, Cairo and several other
mid-East cities will be glow in the dark glass parking lots.
Not a real good place to store treasures.

[shhrubbery!]

the British Museum, anyone can go to see both and tons of other loot, free, without danger of being attacked by a religious fanatic

Pray it stays that way. Plenty of islamofascists in Britain.

Btw, where do you teach, if you don't mind my asking?

[Right Wing Professor]

Then should everything that was ever taken from anywhere be returned to the "original" owners? What about conquered lands? The gold taken from the Incas - should that be given to today's mexicans?

I think you missed his sarcasm.

I agree with you; possession is nine points of the law. The British Museum has had clear possession of these artifacts for 200 years. That's more than long enough to give them title. Nither the two govts. that are trying to repossess them even existed when the BM acquired them.

[Right Wing Professor]

Lincoln, NE. They'd be safe enough here, of course, and we have a beautiful, newly renovated gallery that contains nothing but modern trash paintings; we could throw out the Pollacks to make room!

[RightWhale]

I'll let you two figure this one out and report back to the legal dept. I just expect to find my car where I parked it this morning and my dog sitting on top of his doghouse when I get home. With that, I can get most of the rest of my stuff back eventually.