'Jesus box' Exposed As Fake

CNN ^ | June 18, 2003

[Courier]

Jews had it first and they have it now.

No more changes needed.

Case closed.

[Textide]

I find it all hard to believe too, but still leave open the possibility that others have found what I have not. There's a thing called faith, and while I don't yet have it, others do and will swear by it.

Let them believe what they will and you believe what you will. No need to trash the entire concept of religion just because you haven't found any value in it.

[Hal1950]

"Any chance of an examination by a group perhaps a bit more impartial?"

Is anyone "impartial" about religions and related subjects? If one person can use faith to justify a belief, another person can use faith to justify a diametrically opposed belief. For example, faith provides no way of discerning who is correct when someone says that they have faith that God created the universe and someone else says that they have faith that the Invisible Pink Unicorn created the universe.

[KCmark]

The problem is statements like yours add legitimacy to the religious argument. There is no religious argument. Case closed.

[Courier]

I made no religious argument. I didn't mention religion. Just the historical facts of Jesus' life as a Jew in the homeland of the Jews.

The area was Jewish, it's Jewish now. There is no issue and no one else has a claim.

Is it your claim that the Jews should give it to the Arabs? Why?

You brought up Indians. Are you saying we should give the US to the Indians and Israel should give their land to the Arabs?

The Indians owned the land and now its the United States. That's the way it is, and the way it will stay.

In Israel, the Jews owned the land and now they own the land. I don't see the problem.

The Jews are both the cowboys and the Indians. The Arabs are the buffalo.

[KCmark]

Buffalo. Reminds me of the joke, "That's because we ain't played cowboys and muslims yet."

I spoke out of turn. You did not specifically say because of religious reasons. However, using your cowboy argument, it wouldn't make any difference anyway. At what point will the UN (or other international group) step in and say, "these are the lines, live or die by them"?

[sazerac]

The Discovery Channel had a special about this box two months ago. It was fascinating. Nobody could agree on anything about the box but nobody could prove it wasn't for real.

[4CJ]

I don't need an ossuary to convince me of the existance of God/Jesus - the whole universe is evidence enough for me ;o)

[Grig]

"Your bigotry is showing and it's interfering with your thinking."

What bigotry? Suggesting that there might be a bias is not bigotry, I think everyone has a bias of some kind. I'm a sceptical person by nature and don't buy into things at first brush even when it comes from sources that share my bias so trying to imply that my comments are motivated by bigotry is just false, especialy when my religion teaches that I became part of the House of Isreal at baptism.

"Anything that reminds Christians that Jesus was a Jew and proof that Biblical figures were in actually living in Israel lands legitimacy to the Jewish claims against the Arabs. "

I've never heard of them using the New Testemant to support thier claims, but if you know of anything like that please inform me. It is a fact that religion and politics are deeply mixed there, so independant confirmation from outside the Middle East would be good to have.

[nmh]

"The ossuary is real. But the inscription is fake," the director of Israel's Antiquities Authority, Shuka Dorfman, told Reuters.

Amazed that he, Shuka Dorfman even recognizes Jesus existed however I am not surprised that he believes the inscription is a fake. I'd like to know WHAT makes him think that. What is he basing his opinion on? HOW did he evaluate the inscription. Any chance his Jewish faith blinded him to evidence of a brother to Jesus?

[aruanan]

While most scholars agree that Jesus existed, no physical evidence from the first century has ever been conclusively tied with his life.

As is the case for almost everyone alive during the first century.

[nmh]

Interestingly, the scholars who disagree tend to be on the faculties of nominally Christian divinty schools such as Harvard and Yale."

Yup ... left leaning humanistic beliefs will be opposed to anything Jesus connected. On the ohter hand I have the review for the Biblical Archelogoy Review and it was quite a convincing read. They deleved into the details on why they believed it could be authentic. In any event, I don't venerate or worship relics. This kind of behavior is not permitted in Christianity. For me it would just be a relic of curiosity.

[nmh]

"Take note of who the officials are. They are Jews and liberal Christians. I am supposed to take the opinion of Jews and liberals? People who are forever attacking the authenticity of Jesus?"

You said it! I wouldn't trust either. In the U.S. praying in the name of Jesus is considered offensive. Considering how liberal the majority of them are, it's curious that when it comes to Jesus they discriminate against Him in prayer.

[nmh]

"I was a christian all my life and born again since 1976; however, after years of study I had to conclude that the bible is neither inerrant nor infallible and we've all been sold a bill of goods. I no longer believe jesus ever existed. I am free!!!"

Hmmm ... stating that the Bible is not inerrant nor infallible suggests God is a liar.

Titus 1:2

[2] In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

2Timothy 3:16

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

John 1:17

[17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John.8:32

[32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

The truth in the Bible is what sets me free! I've yet to see it in error or contradictory. True stude, which includes looking at the Greek and Hebrew corrects errors on the part of man in translation. I find comfort nad peace in the wisdom contain therein.

John.14:6

[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

It really is through Jesus that you will find this peace. Not through dead people but the living Son of God, Jesus Christ. I kindly suggest you seek assistance when studying the Bible. Where you spend eternity is at risk, at the moment.

There is little argument, even from Jews and liberal Christians that Jesus existed. Where do you think A.D. and B.C. originated? The evidence of Jesus existing is all over the place. Apparently you were not "born again" otherwise you would not make such statements. I'll remember you in my prayers.

[nmh]

"... organized religion."

You'll NEVER find Jesus in "organized religion"! It's not about people preaching at you, watering down Scripture so that it is meaningless or BIG impressive churches or memebrship in a "church". It's ALL about a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ.

I doubt that Jesus or the Holy Spirit are present in MOST of the churches out there. And I don't care what denomination it is. The Bible is where you will find truth and comfort, not fallible men/women.

[Hal1950]

"stating that the Bible is not inerrant nor infallible suggests God is a liar."

Didn't whoever wrote the bible say the earth is flat?

[nmh]

"Didn't whoever wrote the bible say the earth is flat?"

No, the Bible does NOT say the earth is flat. Care to specify the verse?

God used men and women to write His word. He allowed their personalities to come through and write the Bible.

[nmh]

Some verses on what the Bible does say about the earth: (doesn't say it's flat!)

Isaiah 40:22

[22] It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

In fact, why not read more about this?

A literal translation of Job 26:10 is "He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end." A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22 - "the circle of the earth."

Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe. [JSM]

The Hebrew record is the oldest, because Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. Historians generally [wrongly] credit the Greeks with being the first to suggest a spherical earth. In the sixth century B.C., Pythagoras suggested a spherical earth. [JSM]

Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated the circumference of the earth "within 50 miles of the present estimate." [Encyclopedia Brittanica]

The Greeks also drew meridians and parallels. They identified such areas as the poles, equator, and tropics. This spherical earth concept did not prevail; the Romans drew the earth as a flat disk with oceans around it. [JSM]

The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. [DD]

The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said, "In that day," then in verse 34, "In that night." This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously. [JSM]

"When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate." [DD]

More is found here:

http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html

and here: http://www.christiananswers.net/cgi-bin/htsearch?words=flat+earth%3F&exclude=bible%7Calbanian%7Camharic%7Carabic%7Cbulgarian%7Ccebuano%7Cchinese%7Cchinese-trad%7Cdanish%7Cdutch%7Cenglish%7Cesperanto%7Cfarsi%7Cfrench%7Cgerman%7Chebrew%7Chungarian%7Cindonesian%7Citalian%7Cjapanese%7Ckorean%7Ckurdish%7Clithuanian%7Cmagyar%7Cnorwegian%7Cpersian%7Cportuguese%7Cromanian%7Crussian%7Cspanish%7Cswedish%7Ctagalog%7Ctongan%7Cturkish%7Cvietnamese&config=htdig&format=long&sort=score&htsearch=1&x=15&y=7

So why do people suggest that the Bible says this? Because they are either ignorant or they know and wish to not believe the Bible.