Pope Steps Up Anti-war Crusade With Call For Christians To Fast

AFP ^

[asformeandformyhouse]

Yea, about $100 Billion worth

100 Billion? Man, I guess the priest lawsuits are costing more than they originally thought.

[habaes corpussel]

"100 Billion? Man, I guess the priest lawsuits are costing more than they originally thought."

No where near the tax dollaors we are paying right now.

[singsong]

When I was talking about the roots of Islam I ment Judaism and Christianity. I'm not sure if you will agree with this. I know a lot of Muslims. They are excelent people, in average conditions they are better than Christians, but they are volatile and vulnerable to influances from their clergy. I've seen sudden changes that are beyond my rationality. I would like to believe that there is a force within Islam that can take care of this. I have no clue though.

[habaes corpussel]

"When I was talking about the roots of Islam I ment Judaism and Christianity. I'm not sure if you will agree with this. I know a lot of Muslims. They are excelent people, in average conditions they are better than Christians, but they are volatile and vulnerable to influances from their clergy. I've seen sudden changes that are beyond my rationality. I would like to believe that there is a force within Islam that can take care of this. I have no clue though."

You are completely right here and I do agree. A force to deal with it is also something that is badly needed. However the Muslims themselves are badly fractured the Sunnis and the Shia don't agree on much. There has been some positive movement but as long as the extremists block out the intellectuals and some of their Mujtahid continue to hijack the Shari-a it will be a long road. But I think there is some hope. But the Muslim themselves must be the ones to bridge this. If anyone outside the Muslim faith try's this is will just be viewed as an attack on their faith. We can assist but not be seen as the prime mover. This is one of the Problems with the current US Strategy.

[The Grammarian]

[T]the pope is right in line with the World Council of Churches. Does that send up any red flags for anyone here?

Yes. I'm feeling the urge to run for the Free Methodist Church again--something not involved with the WCC/NCC, at the least.

[The Grammarian]

It's nice to see that these so-called "Catholics" are revealing themsleves as closeted born-again Christian Protestants...

Praise the Lord!

[Iowegian]

You can't be that dumb

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you can't be dumb enough to believe that the Vatican is a real, legitimate sovereign political state. I'll give it a test. Say a renegade band of Moslems storm Vatican City and take it over. Do the citizens of this so-called sovereign state call out their Army, Marines and Air Force to take back their nation or do the call a real sovereign state, like Italy to do it for them. I think we both know the answer to this one.

Bush has to listen to them because of internal US politics (wanting votes of all those RC sheep), not because they are in any sense a legitimate "country".

The reason I used the Elvis example is because his empire (Graceland) is based on the same religious zeal as your Vatican City and has the same legitimacy of "sovereign state". The real difference is that Graceland is based purely on greed and not a power-grab, so they haven't needed to declare itself an independent state. (Note, this does not mean that the Elvis religion is equal in truth to your RC church, but is equal in legitimacy as a real state.)

[SoothingDave]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you can't be dumb enough to believe that the Vatican is a real, legitimate sovereign political state.

I'm a lot dumber than you think. So, apparently, are many countries in the world and the US. As are the foolish folks in the Italian mint, who make Euro coins for the Vatican, distinct from the Italian or French or German coins. Likewise, the idiots who enter the Vatican and get their passports stamped.

There's this thing, this treaty, between Italy and the Vatican that does indeed give sovereignity over the Vatican City sate to the Pope. It is an established fact. Only a red-blooded bigot would fail to see this fact.

I'll give it a test. Say a renegade band of Moslems storm Vatican City and take it over. Do the citizens of this so-called sovereign state call out their Army, Marines and Air Force to take back their nation or do the call a real sovereign state, like Italy to do it for them. I think we both know the answer to this one.

So, a state, in order to be "real" must have an army. Is that your contention? I thought a state, to be sovereign, had to have sovereignity. Silly me.

For what it's worth, the Vatican does indeed have security forces prepared to handle affairs for a state of its size. It is not like the Pope needs to project his force with bullets into the world.

And, also, in your example, the Vatican City state happens to be within the territory of the state of Italy. A Moslem invasion force would need to first occupy parts of Italy in order to attack the Vatican. So it would be a concern of Itay's as well.

I also recall a much larger sovereign state calling in help from the US and the world when it was run over. What was it? Oh, yeah, Kuwait. Is Kuwait not sufficiently military to meet your criteria as well? What of Luxembourg or Lichtenstein?

Also, as much animosity as there was in the past, Italy and the Vatican do cooperate to a much larger extent than, say, an ignorant American fundamentalist would like.

SD