FIRST HAND ACCOUNT OF FIRE AT GW CONCERT(WARNING - GRAPHIC ACCOUNT)

www.metal-sludge.com ^ | 02/21/03 | George Dionne

[Brian Allen]

<< ..... Wish I now owned a company that makes mirror balls. >>

Don't "wish" it.

Do it!

[Tamzee]

You missed my point... I was referring to the poster's comment about the people wedged together lying in the doorway. If you have a brick wall pushing you swiftly from behind, you don't have much control over where your body winds up. And the brick wall of people behind have no idea that they are sealing their death warrant up ahead because they can't see the results of their moving forward. The people bottled up in the doorway were not being "stupid", they most likely couldn't stop for other people in their way no matter how much they wanted to.

I do agree with you about the punching and biting, I truly can't imagine handling it that way myself.... but I have never been seconds away from burning to death, either.

[Tamzee]

It wasn't a stampede, fortunately, just a Billy Squire concert where the people in the back pushed forward too much and the concert had to be halted because we audience members in the front were injured by it. Several people right in front of me were being hurt from being jammed so tightly against the barriers and a few fainted from not being able to breathe. My overwhelming memory was of being pushed up in the air off my feet by the enormous pressure of bodies behind me and an immovable wall of the people in front of me.

Seeing the logjam of people in the doorway reminded me how easily the dynamics of a crowd can create that situation. However it happened, my heart goes out to them and their families... it looks like it was a brief, violent, terrifying, tragic nightmare.

[ladyinred]

I kept thinking about how horrific this must have been for the victims as I watched the coverage today. Those who managed to get out will obviously suffer over what they saw and heard for the rest of their lives. So tragic.

[CyberAnt]

For the head of the group to say they had permission (and they always get permission) does not look good for him. 3 other club owners have already said the group did not ask permission to do the pyro stuff.

[JoJo Gunn]

Nah. Didn't sound like a "disability" to me.

I understand you very well. I focused on the band, more rather whoever set up the pyrotechnics, all the talk about how they should know better, etc. But oh yeah, WE need to be wary and mindful too. Just like the old saying about not trusting the other driver, never assume he'll give you the right of way, whatever.

[JoJo Gunn]

Agreed. I might have missed a story, but have heard of the one in New Jersey, and later this evening heard about one in Florida. That's 2 too many.

Wasn't that Great White on an old Joe Piscopo special on HBO back in, oh, '84?

[BansheeBill]

Here's another first person account that ran in this afternoon's Quincy (MA) Patriot Ledger newspaper:

He was seconds from a fiery death

By DON CONKEY
The Patriot Ledger

Jamie Conway of Pembroke says he was perhaps 10 seconds away from death when someone pulled him from the stack of people stuck in the doorway of a burning Rhode Island nightclub.

‘‘After the guy pulled me out, within 10 or 20 seconds everybody who had been stuck in that doorway was engulfed in flames. It was the saddest thing I have ever seen in my life,'' Conway said.

Arthur J. Conway III, better known as Jamie, was at The Station last night with his friend and neighbor, Kris Somers.

Somers, like Conway, escaped the blaze safely. They were about 30 feet from the door when the fire broke out.

‘‘I didn't think anything about it. I waited maybe half a minute, and people started yelling ‘Door! Door!''' said Conway, who is 28.

‘‘Kris was about five feet in front of me. I stated getting pushed toward the door,'' Conway said.

‘‘After about a minute, the lights went out. I could not see anything. We stuck against the walls.''

He worked his way to a door.

‘‘I got caught in the doorway. Four or five people were stacked below me. I was in a horizontal position,'' Conway said.

‘‘There were people on top of me. I could feel myself starting to burn, felt my feet and right hand burning.

‘‘It was the most unbelievable heat I have ever felt. Like when you open an oven door, times 20,'' he said.

‘‘No matter how I wiggled I couldn't do anything. I was completely helpless,'' he said.

Then, a man outside grabbed Conway's arms and began to pull.

‘‘He yanked on me for about 30 seconds, both arms. Then he stopped because he could not get me out,'' Conway said.

About a minute later, the man returned and pulled again.

‘‘I just kept reaching my hands to him, and I finally broke free,'' Conway said.

Seconds later, people in the doorway became engulfed in flames.

Conway said that his face, right ear and right hand are burned. He was admitted at Rhode Island Hospital in Providence, where he was recovering today.

Conway is a professional piano player, so there is some concern about what the injury to his hand might do to his career.

But this morning, he was thinking more about what might have been - and the guy he still hasn't met.

‘‘I'm lucky to be alive. It's unbelievable that the guy was there,'' Conway said. ‘‘He must be an angel of some kind.''

John Kudryk, 33, of Stoughton, also was in the nightclub last night when the fire broke out.

‘‘The place went up within a matter of two minutes,'' he told the Providence Journal last night.

Kudryk said he was near the center of the crowd and was among the last to escape.

One of his friends, Gary Stein of Berkley, was in intensive care in a Rhode Island hospital. Another, Bob Young of Taunton, was still missing today, said Kudryk's mother, Pat.

Stein is originally from Stoughton and lived there until he got married about five years ago, she said.

A third friend, Joe Lusardi of Easton, was found and was OK, she said. Lusardi is also a native of Stoughton and graduated from Stoughton High School, as did her son and Stein, she said.

Kudryk was shaken up and wasn't available for an interview today, Pat Kudryk said.

‘‘He called us at about 11:30 last night, completely hysterical. He was rambling on about a fire, and that his friends were missing,'' she said.

‘‘He said that he was stuck at the doorway during the fire, and then he grabbed something and pulled himself through a doorway,'' she said.

He inhaled smoke and had burns on his hair and face, she said.

She said that her son stayed at the scene for a time, looking for his friends.

He was treated at a local hospital. Pat and her husband, Emil, picked him up and they arrived home at about 6 a.m.

As the day went on, they were beginning to cope with what might have been.

‘‘It is really hitting me now, seeing the fire, that my son made it out of there alive. Thank God for that,'' Pat Kudryk said

. ‘‘I feel bad for the people who can't find their family. That could have been me,'' she said.

‘‘I'm looking at the TV right now, looking at these poor people in the fire who did not make it out, and thinking that this could have been my son.''

Posted for informational and discussion purposes only. Not for commercial use.
http://ledger.southofboston.com/display/inn_news/news02.txt

[Howlin]

How naive I was!

A couple of years ago, when my niece was a Zeta at Carolina, she called me up to tell me they were going to a party at the Pika house in Chapel Hill.

Before I could stop myself I yelled, "Don't you DARE go in that basement."

It was a firehole when I was there.

[nutmeg]

bump

[supercat]

If the fire consumed everything so quickly, wouldn't it have been 'fed' by the broken out windows?

In a fire like this one, there was enough air inside the club to burn enough fuel to heat the air up to the point of flashover (spontaneous ignition of everything inside). Ventilation of a fire helps prevent flashover by allowing the hot air and smoke to escape. That is why firefighters often poke holes in the roofs of burning buildings.

[Citizen of the Savage Nation]

But the band, who started the whole, made it out nice and safe. How nice. The guy who tossed the firebomb in the Korean subway this week made it out, too, he's all peachy while 100 died horribly. Isn't fate grand?

[PFKEY]

How does fear cause you to stop thinking?

With 250+ people and just one exit, for all practical purposes, it would only take one or two people to stop thinking before a chain reactions of sorts is started and then you have what happened here and in Chicago.

[anniegetyourgun]

Sounds like we agree on this - the whole thing was needless and senseless.

[mommadooo3]

Thanks for the reply. It pretty much shoots down what I've always been told 'growing up'....that, in case of fire, don't break out windows 'cuz it will 'feed it' and make it grow.

[NYC GOP Chick]

Good points. However, I was not referring to the specifics of what happened Thursday night, but to this:

The problem is simply because it's a large crowd of uncoordinated humans. There is no way to create a "mass intelligence" between so many people, especially during a crisis.

All I was saying is that when two airliners struck the towers, there was a very strong element of "mass intelligence" among tens of thousands of people who had no idea what was coming next or if they were going to survive.

That said, I'm wondering how people got "bottled up" in the doorway -- how they couldn't just get out when they were right there. I just had to turn away every time they showed that on TV, so maybe I'm missing something.

[OXENinFLA]

>>"I do not blame Great White or The Station for what happened, it was just a tragic accident."

Somehow I think the lawyers will disagree with him.

And I think that little impromptu interview the lead singer of "Great White" gave saying he "got permission" and "It wasn't our fault." Will be used against him in court.

[NYC GOP Chick]

And I think that little impromptu interview the lead singer of "Great White" gave saying he "got permission" and "It wasn't our fault." Will be used against him in court.

What I found most puzzling was the part where he said that the club gave permission, but shouldn't have done so.

Like the band isn't sentient enough to realize that low ceilings in a small room aren't conducive to sparklers and can only be persuaded to not use them if a club owner tells them not to do it?

[FreeTally]

And I think that little impromptu interview the lead singer of "Great White" gave saying he "got permission" and "It wasn't our fault." Will be used against him in court.

Possibly so.

What we do have is this: We know for a fact neitehr the club nor the band applied for and received a permit to have pyro. Someone is screwed there. We also have a few other clubs saying "Hey, they used pyro here and we didn't know about it". That is the interesting part. Notcie from the videos, the pyro they used isn't major at all. Very minor stuff that (obviously) presents no problem in most any typical club that has appropriate fire resistant materials by the stage. I would not doubt if they did exactly what the singer said, asked permission, but never sought permits in these other clubs. Now, pyro was used in these clubs, and it was probably against city regulations to do so without a permit. Its altogether possible that these clubs are covering their butts by saying "we didn't know they were going to use pyro".

Also odd to me is that the story of the owner of the "Stone Pony" seems to have changed. First, he said they used them without permission. Today, I here him saying he stopped the show. That seems unlikely to me, because the pyro was over in less than ten seconds, and is not used again.

Fox also reported this morning that another club has come forward and said GW asked permission to use pyro and were denied - and they didn't use them. Kind of adds a little crdibility to the story of the singer. Many clubs may simply have been ignoring the fire code and allowing pyro without a permit, and now fear they will get in trouble in light of this tragedy.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out in court.

[mykdsmom]

I was reading this thread tonight because this fire has been haunting me all day, not sure why, other than it's SO horrific.

I saw this table, posted below in our local paper and it looks like about 50/50 if they asked or didn't for permission for pyro. Wonder if they started getting told no to pyro from club owners too often that they decided it was better to ask forgiveness than permission.

They may have felt that doing the concert w/o pyro ruined the "look" they were trying to create.

Sampling of shows from tour

JAN. 23, GLENDALE HEIGHTS, ILL.: Great White manager mentioned pyrotechnics. Shark City manager said club did not allow them, and effects were not used.

JAN. 25, HEWITT, MINN.: Band used "flashpots" at the Checkers Bar. Club booker Brian Hendershot said club was informed in advance.

JAN. 27, SIOUX CITY, IOWA: Band used pyrotechnics. Dan Lewis, owner of Lewis Bowl & Sports Bar, could not recall whether band sought permission.

JAN. 30, MILWAUKEE: Band apparently used pyrotechnics, though the Rave club did not have a permit for the effects, said Todd Weiler, spokesman for the Milwaukee Department of Neighborhood Services.

FEB. 3, EVANSVILLE, IND.: Band complied with request not to use pyrotechnics at Oxygen, owner said.

FEB. 7, PINELLAS PARK, FLA.: Band used pyrotechnics without notification at the Pinellas Park Expo Center, said Tim Bryant, president of Past to Present Productions.

FEB. 8, BOYNTON BEACH, FLA.: Band complied with request not to use pyrotechnics at Ovation, owner said.

FEB. 10, ATLANTA: Band did not use pyrotechnics at The Riviera Club, club production manager said.

FEB. 11, WINSTON-SALEM, NC: Officials at Ziggy's Tavern told fire marshal band did not use pyrotechnics.

FEB. 13, ALLENTOWN, PA.: Band used pyrotechnics at the Crocodile Rock Cafe without notice, owner Joe Clark said.

FEB. 14, ASBURY PARK, N.J.: Band used pyrotechnics at the Stone Pony without telling club officials, owner Domenic Santana said.

FEB. 18, BANGOR, MAINE: Authorities investigating reports pyrotechnics used without a permit.