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Raid on Kmart lot leaves shock, anger( America PoliceState in the Making)
Houston Chronicle ^ | Aug. 19, 2002 | By RON NISSIMOV

Posted on 08/19/2002 11:53:25 AM PDT by USA21

Raid on Kmart lot leaves shock, anger

Teenagers, parents question arrests of 425 outside store

A crowd of angry teenagers and their parents accused police Sunday of arresting many innocent bystanders during an overnight raid on a west Houston parking lot where youths apparently congregate.

Scores of Houston police officers swarmed onto the Kmart parking lot in the 8400 block of Westheimer about 12:30 a.m. Sunday and arrested about 425 people for criminal trespassing, a misdemeanor.

Steve Campbell / Chronicle Soneary Sy is overcome with emotion outside the police station as she waits for her son to be released. Sy said she waited all night for her 17-year-old son, a straight-A student, to come home.

Houston Police Department spokesman Martin DeLeon said many cars were towed.

DeLeon said business owners have been complaining about youths gathering on their parking lots on weekend nights and causing a commotion.

DeLeon said he did not have more details about the incident because the two captains in charge of the raid, M.A. Aguirre and J.P. Mokwa, were sleeping Sunday after working all night.

The Kmart store is open 24 hours a day, and many of the people at the HPD station at 61 Reisner said Sunday that they had simply been shopping or eating at a Sonic drive-in restaurant that adjoins the discount store's parking lot when they were arrested.

Kmart and Sonic supervisors referred all questions to their corporate headquarters, which were not open Sunday.

"We went to use the restroom at Kmart and to buy a Scrunchi (hair band), and when we came back to our car, cops were coming in (the parking lot) and they tied our hands," said Brandi Ratliff, 18, who said she was a straight-A student at Waller High School and never had any problems with the law.

Ratliff said that even though she and two friends told police they had just come out of the Kmart, all three were arrested and spent the night in jail.

"It was traumatic," said a tearful Ratliff on Sunday morning after her parents drove from Stafford to pay her $300 bail at the downtown city jail. "It was sick where they were holding us. A prostitute was fighting with another woman. The food they served was food you would serve to a dog, not a human."

Ratliff and her two friends, Kris Karsteter, 21, and Kyesa Scott, 18, all had pink marks on their wrists from where they said police had tied plastic handcuffs too tightly.

Scott said she didn't have the money to pay bail and so she pleaded guilty to avoid spending another night in jail.

Steve Campbell / Chronicle Brandi Ratliff, left, and Kyesa Scott, both 18, comfort each other after being released from police custody. "It was traumatic," Ratliff said of her arrest in a Kmart parking lot and a night in jail.

Emily Demmler, 19, said: "All I was doing was eating ice cream."

Demmler said the only trouble she'd previously had with authorities was being called into the principal's office twice in elementary school for gossiping. She said she pulled her car into the Sonic lot shortly after midnight so she and her two friends could get some ice cream after a night of karaoke.

After about five minutes, police "just swarmed," Demmler said.

"We thought we were in the middle of a drug bust, and we thought, `We're cool; we're not doing anything wrong,' " said Demmler, a part-time lifeguard at the Jewish Community Center who is starting college this fall at the University of Houston.

Instead, all the patrons at the Sonic were ordered by police to march to the Kmart lot, where they joined throngs of other people who were being arrested, she said.

"My purse and my friend's purse were still in the car ... but the cop wouldn't let me get them," said Demmler, whose mother eventually recovered her car and both purses.

"We asked police why we were being arrested, and they said, `Everybody is receiving equal treatment from the Houston Police Department tonight.' It didn't matter what you were doing; they arrested you."

Demmler said many youths appearing to be 13 or 14 were arrested and taken to juvenile detention facilities, adding, "They even arrested a 10-year-old girl who was having dinner with her father and took her to juvenile detention.

"She got separated from her father and I asked her how old she was, and she told me she was 10," Demmler said. "She was dazed."

In a phone interview, Demmler claimed to have "huge marks on my arms" from tight handcuffs.

Leanne Williams said her 19-year-old son called her from jail and told her he showed police a receipt for bottled water from Kmart, but he was still arrested.

She said her son called her five times from the downtown jail, but police still couldn't locate him at 11 a.m. because his paperwork had been delayed.

"I gotta spend my Sunday at the jail searching for my son they can't find," said her husband, Jerome Williams.

Soneary Sy didn't know her 17-year-old son, a straight-A student, was arrested until he called her at 6 a.m.

"I didn't sleep all night waiting for my son to come home" said a sobbing Sy, a Cambodian immigrant who moved to Houston 22 years ago. "He tried to go to Kmart and as soon as he got to Kmart he was arrested."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: donutwatch; policestate
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1 posted on 08/19/2002 11:53:26 AM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
U.S. Agents Arrest Dozens of Fathers in Support Cases

ASHINGTON, Aug. 16 — Federal agents in 29 states have arrested dozens of fathers who owe millions of dollars of child support, in a nationwide sweep that officials describe as a significant expansion of the federal role.

More notable than any one arrest, the officials say, is the message that the Bush administration is sending about its decision to pursue a more aggressive approach by using federal criminal prosecution against people who have repeatedly flouted state court orders.

Even though child support collections have increased in recent years, many parents still evade their obligations by moving from state to state and job to job. Surveys by the Census Bureau suggest that one-third of the parents entitled to child support under court orders or agreements are not receiving it

2 posted on 08/19/2002 11:55:06 AM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
So enforcing the law equates, in your mind, to an embryonic police state? Okey doke!
3 posted on 08/19/2002 11:55:13 AM PDT by Coop
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To: USA21
NASA plans to read terrorist's minds at airports
4 posted on 08/19/2002 11:57:40 AM PDT by USA21
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To: Coop
lol
5 posted on 08/19/2002 11:58:12 AM PDT by USA21
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To: Coop
America is now Police State
6 posted on 08/19/2002 11:59:18 AM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21; Dane; Cultural Jihad
Let's see just how many boot-lickers come out and say that the cops were "just doing their job". Hint: the usual suspects who support the WOD on the drug threads.

Dane, CJ ... comments?

7 posted on 08/19/2002 11:59:19 AM PDT by bassmaner
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To: USA21
Raid on Kmart lot leaves shock, anger
8 posted on 08/19/2002 11:59:42 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: bassmaner
Do I get to pick which boot I lick?
9 posted on 08/19/2002 12:00:25 PM PDT by Coop
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To: Coop
I guess if there is a law against 18, 19 and 21 year olds eating a a sonic after midnight.
10 posted on 08/19/2002 12:00:40 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith
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To: Coop
That word enforcing

i hate it

11 posted on 08/19/2002 12:00:50 PM PDT by USA21
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To: Coop
So enforcing the law equates, in your mind, to an embryonic police state? Okey doke!

Apparently, K-Mart should have just armed their checkout clerks and sent them out to clear the trespassers.

12 posted on 08/19/2002 12:02:00 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: USA21
"Demmler said many youths appearing to be 13 or 14 were arrested and taken to juvenile detention facilities, adding, "They even arrested a 10-year-old girl who was having dinner with her father and took her to juvenile detention."

"She got separated from her father and I asked her how old she was, and she told me she was 10," Demmler said. "She was dazed."

If true the Houston police department will be paying this guy and his 10 yeard old through the nose for many years.

13 posted on 08/19/2002 12:02:09 PM PDT by Bikers4Bush
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To: USA21; Coop
For those who haven't supported their kids it would prevent them from creating even more to squat them over a blender set on puree.
14 posted on 08/19/2002 12:02:56 PM PDT by ofMagog
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To: USA21
There is quite often a difference between what you can do and what you should do.  In this case, it appears the the cops could and did arrest a lot of people.  By so doing, they have lost a lot of good will and made enemies unnecessarily.
15 posted on 08/19/2002 12:02:56 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: bassmaner
Hmm... this does seem awfully weird to have happened... I can see breaking up the gathering crowd but ... arresting them? It sounds just bizarre!

and, incidentally, I do support the WOD

16 posted on 08/19/2002 12:04:38 PM PDT by Terriergal
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
the Police are geting out hand all over America
17 posted on 08/19/2002 12:04:54 PM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21; Admin Moderator
Already Posted 7 hours ago. Exact title, without the commentary
18 posted on 08/19/2002 12:05:21 PM PDT by Hillary's Lovely Legs
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To: USA21
Poor babies.
19 posted on 08/19/2002 12:06:32 PM PDT by Hans
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
what do you want it taking down ass
20 posted on 08/19/2002 12:07:09 PM PDT by USA21
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To: Terriergal
Yes, it does sound weird, doesn't it? So perhaps we should get both sides of the story before declaring a police state.

Naaaaaahhhh, what's the fun of that?!?

21 posted on 08/19/2002 12:07:37 PM PDT by Coop
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To: USA21
Raid on Kmart lot leaves shock, anger

In the meantime . . . I wonder how many muders, rapes, thefts, and destruction of property occured. I am going to sleep so much better now KNOWING that the cops have the K-mart parking lot locked down tight.

22 posted on 08/19/2002 12:10:13 PM PDT by realpatriot71
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To: Coop
:-)
23 posted on 08/19/2002 12:10:27 PM PDT by Terriergal
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To: USA21; Hillary's Lovely Legs
what do you want it taking down ass

Did you mean to call HLL an ass, or did your finger slip?

24 posted on 08/19/2002 12:12:02 PM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: USA21
what do you want it taking down ass

Oh, good move! 'Search' is your friend.

25 posted on 08/19/2002 12:12:30 PM PDT by chesty_puller
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To: Coop
Yep. I doubt that the cops just showed up and arrested people on their own initiative. There is little doubt in my mind that the property owners had been trying to have this problem resolved before the arrests took place. Most likely calling the police was a last resort. Well.... a next to last resort as a previous poster pointed out. Had the K-mart manager come out and shot half a dozen.. the gun advocates here would be championing gun rights, property rights, talking about what size caliber to do the job... and on and on.

But since the cops were called, well... it's a terrible thing you know.

Don't get me wrong... when I was a kid we hung out in large numbers in parking lots on the local drag. But those property owners didn't complain. They posted a few signs, but they never called the cops on us.

26 posted on 08/19/2002 12:12:32 PM PDT by kjam22
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To: Coop
So enforcing the law equates, in your mind, to an embryonic police state? Okey doke!

Did you read the article? Here's some snippets for you, so you don't have to strain yourself reading the whole thing.

A crowd of angry teenagers and their parents accused police Sunday of arresting many innocent bystanders

The Kmart store is open 24 hours a day, and many of the people at the HPD station at 61 Reisner said Sunday that they had simply been shopping or eating at a Sonic drive-in restaurant that adjoins the discount store's parking lot when they were arrested.

Emily Demmler, 19, said: "All I was doing was eating ice cream."

... all the patrons at the Sonic were ordered by police to march to the Kmart, where they joined throngs of other people who were being arrested

"...It didn't matter what you were doing; they arrested you."

"They even arrested a 10-year-old girl who was having dinner with her father...

he showed police a receipt for bottled water from Kmart, but he was still arrested.

Now, remind me, which laws were these fine men-in-blue enforcing?
27 posted on 08/19/2002 12:12:53 PM PDT by RandomUserName
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To: USA21; dighton; aculeus; general_re
Hooray for the Police State. I live only five minutes from a small shopping mall which is not only convenient, but it housed several excellent little stores, along with a supermarket and a Firestone auto repair shop. It is a deserted wasteland now because, one by one, the owners were forced out by vandals who made it a practice to congregate in the parking lot. Although the lots were patrolled by security personnel, they could not control the vermin. What that mall needed was armed policemen.
28 posted on 08/19/2002 12:20:23 PM PDT by Orual
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To: RandomUserName
Why, yes I did read the entire article. Thank you for your concern, however. I especially liked this tidbit you provided:

A crowd of angry teenagers and their parents accused police

Well, that settles it, then! The police are obviously guilty. This conclusion is reinforced by the statements from the officers in charge, who were, uh, not given the opportunity to respond to this highly objective article.

Even though you're a stickler for details, I noticed you missed this particular tidbit to highlight:

DeLeon said he did not have more details about the incident because the two captains in charge of the raid, M.A. Aguirre and J.P. Mokwa, were sleeping Sunday after working all night.

Now bring me my boots!!

29 posted on 08/19/2002 12:24:05 PM PDT by Coop
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To: RandomUserName
Now, remind me, which laws were these fine men-in-blue enforcing?

Tresspassing and juvenille curfew for starters.

Even if you purchase something at a store does not give you the right to loiter on their property.

Whatever happened to private property rights?

30 posted on 08/19/2002 12:24:07 PM PDT by TomB
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To: TomB
BTW, I think the police handled the incident poorly, from the sound of the news article. But since there's loads of hearsay, I'll wait until more information comes out.
31 posted on 08/19/2002 12:26:09 PM PDT by TomB
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To: Orual
Hooray for the Police State.

Do you think these people who throw that term around constantly really know what goes on in a REAL police state?

32 posted on 08/19/2002 12:27:56 PM PDT by TomB
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To: USA21
12:30 a.m. ... arrested 425 outside store
33 posted on 08/19/2002 12:29:59 PM PDT by Fithal the Wise
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To: Orual
What that mall needed was armed policemen.

Now you've gone and done it..

Incoming... take cover. !

34 posted on 08/19/2002 12:32:47 PM PDT by Texas Mom
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To: TomB
Do you think these people who throw that term around constantly really know what goes on in a REAL police state?

Yes. The government beats up on innocent teens buying make-up and Bibles at a large discount store, after innocently enjoying a burger and malt.

35 posted on 08/19/2002 12:35:07 PM PDT by Coop
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To: Fithal the Wise
My thought exactly....425! after midnight! Granted there may have been a few innocents that were rounded up, but can anyone really imagine a Kmart and a Sonic having 425 legitimate patrons at 12:30 at night? No way. The crime is called loitering.
36 posted on 08/19/2002 12:35:49 PM PDT by cincinnati65
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To: USA21; bassmaner; chookter
Oh please! Yeah, we all know how whining innocent angelic teens never do anything wrong. If there weren't any problems, why would Sonic and K-mart want to runoff such a large number of clientele? You might want to consider renting "Heathers" to get a better perspective.

I grew up in Houston, and did my share of the 'Westheimer cruise' in high school. I have no doubt that this location must have been having an ongoing problem with teen mischief, you have no idea how large those crowds of kids can get. We did our share of rowdiness, and these days it seems to often escalate even further. If the cops never go in and never occassionally send a message, Houston might get their opportunity to enjoy http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20020819/1048514.asp or http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/735589/posts. Its already happened repeatedly in nearby Galveston.

And why is protecting private property rights and anti-loitering ok with homeless bums, but not with post-midnight hooligan teens?

I'm sorry if you've got a chip on your shoulder against LE, but sometimes they actually are doing the right thing. (Which you guys seem to NEVER admit.) You wouldn't perhaps be from Massillion, OH?
37 posted on 08/19/2002 12:36:51 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: USA21
This has been posted and discussed

Poor innocent children, jack booted cops

280 comments.

38 posted on 08/19/2002 12:39:02 PM PDT by Texas Mom
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: USA21
Everyone is a criminal...period...besides the Houston PD appearanly needed to justify their incarceration budget, which required around 425 "guests" in order to be officially overcrowded.

EBUCK

40 posted on 08/19/2002 12:42:40 PM PDT by EBUCK
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To: Diddle E. Squat
And why is protecting private property rights and anti-loitering ok with homeless bums, but not with post-midnight hooligan teens?

What about the folks eating at the Sonic?

If I'm eating at Sonic at 12:30am following a long day of National Guard Drill and cops show up and order me into the parking lot of the Kmart next door with no arrest and no probable cause, I'm going to have a problem with it.

Wouldn't you?

41 posted on 08/19/2002 12:44:18 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith
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To: cincinnati65
but can anyone really imagine a Kmart and a Sonic having 425 legitimate patrons at 12:30 at night?

Appearantly K-Mart and Sonic can, otherwise they wouldn't be open 24 hours a day.

EBUCK

42 posted on 08/19/2002 12:46:50 PM PDT by EBUCK
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To: hellinahandcart
You are correct, in the poorest grammar possible, the moron is calling me an ass because he didn't bother to do a keyword search before posting.
43 posted on 08/19/2002 1:18:54 PM PDT by Hillary's Lovely Legs
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To: realpatriot71
Leave 400 people in front of your house for a month and say that.
A businesses insurance could close the location when areas become hang-outs like that.
Broken arm, cuts, bruises or whatever, they su K-mart.
Arresting everyone was the right thing to do.
44 posted on 08/19/2002 1:27:43 PM PDT by A CA Guy
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To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
Houston, Police, Need to respond to this article, when they do I am sure the same diligence will be used to update us?

Ops4 God Bless America!
45 posted on 08/19/2002 1:28:04 PM PDT by OPS4
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To: EBUCK
A couple years ago the daughter of a friend of mine went with her boyfriend to a club in downtown Rochester. When a fight broke out, the Rochester police were summoned and simply arrested everyone in sight.

This girl and her boyfriend spent the night in jail for simply having been at the club at the time. The police were insulting and dismissive.

This is, I believe, a result of the years' of cries of racial profiling. Now, everyone gets arrested. Next step -- no enforcement at all.

46 posted on 08/19/2002 1:31:47 PM PDT by CraigH
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To: Terriergal
Well, in defense of the cops, this happens a lot in my town too. Fortunately it is very evident (here) who is trespassing and who isn't. Cops come and break it up all the time, but no arrests/tickets have been given (to my knowledge). It's wendy's and Harris teeter that is the hangout for the High school kids here.
47 posted on 08/19/2002 1:38:11 PM PDT by rb22982
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To: bassmaner
The cops were just doing their jobs.

It's the bureaucrats who sent them there who are the primary problem.

48 posted on 08/19/2002 1:39:49 PM PDT by jdege
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To: Coop
Yes. The government beats up on innocent teens buying make-up and Bibles at a large discount store, after innocently enjoying a burger and malt.

You know, I think I read about that happening in the Soviet Union under Stalin once, or was that Cambodia under Pol Pot?

49 posted on 08/19/2002 1:40:51 PM PDT by TomB
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To: USA21
Nice to know HPD is arresting these big time criminals. >heavy sarcasm<

They're almost as bad as the Harris County Keystone cops.

50 posted on 08/19/2002 1:42:51 PM PDT by dougherty
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