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Posted on 08/15/2002 10:43:29 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
at all Marshals Service-protected facilities except Murrah, where AKAL/TEG had only one guard on duty.
Michael Johnston in these replies is the same attorney who earlier this year filed a lawsuit against Iraq on behalf of 13 survivors and family members of survivors of the Murrah bobming in OKC on April 19, 1995. He is curently working with Judicial Watch out of OKC. Johnston is an expert on Bush, Barbouti,Tal and CIA roles with Iraq before and during the Gulf War.
Johnston also represented David Hoffman the author of the Politics of Terror which was pulped after FBI agent Buck Revelles lawsuit agsint Hoffman.
Johnston worked as a consultant for KFORTV and worked once with Jayna Davis. He represented the Federal Grand Juror Hoppi Hedelberg who claimed Federal coverup and corruption in the way the Federal Grand Jury was run by US prosecutor Joseph Hartler back in the summer of 1995.
Johnston is fully aware of the most important ME and domestic John Doe and FBI/CIA informant aspects of the OKC bombing case.
He has filed several legal motions on behalf of David Hoffman trying to obtain surveillance tapes pertaining to the OKC bombing. I have helped Johnston with this effort over the years.
Johnston traveled to Germany in 1995 and interviewed Andreas Strassmeir about Strassmeir's role in the OKC bombing.
Officers Say U.S. Aided Iraq in War Despite Use of Gas
By PATRICK E. TYLER
ASHINGTON, Aug. 17 — A covert American program during the Reagan administration provided Iraq with critical battle planning assistance at a time when American intelligence agencies knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in waging the decisive battles of the Iran-Iraq war, according to senior military officers with direct knowledge of the program.
Those officers, most of whom agreed to speak on the condition that they not be identified, spoke in response to a reporter's questions about the nature of gas warfare on both sides of the conflict between Iran and Iraq from 1981 to 1988. Iraq's use of gas in that conflict is repeatedly cited by President Bush and, this week, by his national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, as justification for "regime change" in Iraq.
The covert program was carried out at a time when President Reagan's top aides, including Secretary of State George P. Shultz, Defense Secretary Frank C. Carlucci and Gen. Colin L. Powell, then the national security adviser, were publicly condemning Iraq for its use of poison gas, especially after Iraq attacked Kurds in Halabja in March 1988.
During the Iran-Iraq war, the United States decided it was imperative that Iran be thwarted, so it could not overrun the important oil-producing states in the Persian Gulf. It has long been known that the United States provided intelligence assistance to Iraq in the form of satellite photography to help the Iraqis understand how Iranian forces were deployed against them. But the full nature of the program, as described by former Defense Intelligence Agency officers, was not previously disclosed.
Secretary of State Powell, through a spokesman, said the officers' description of the program was "dead wrong," but declined to discuss it. His deputy, Richard L. Armitage, a senior defense official at the time, used an expletive relayed through a spokesman to indicate his denial that the United States acquiesced in the use of chemical weapons.
The Defense Intelligence Agency declined to comment, as did Lt. Gen. Leonard Perroots, retired, who supervised the program as the head of the agency. Mr. Carlucci said, "My understanding is that what was provided" to Iraq "was general order of battle information, not operational intelligence."
"I certainly have no knowledge of U.S. participation in preparing battle and strike packages," he said, "and doubt strongly that that occurred."
Later, he added, "I did agree that Iraq should not lose the war, but I certainly had no foreknowledge of their use of chemical weapons."
Though senior officials of the Reagan administration publicly condemned Iraq's employment of mustard gas, sarin, VX and other poisonous agents, the American military officers said President Reagan, Vice President George Bush and senior national security aides never withdrew their support for the highly classified program in which more than 60 officers of the Defense Intelligence Agency were secretly providing detailed information on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for airstrikes and bomb-damage assessments for Iraq.
Iraq shared its battle plans with the Americans, without admitting the use of chemical weapons, the military officers said. But Iraq's use of chemical weapons, already established at that point, became more evident in the war's final phase.
Saudi Arabia played a crucial role in pressing the Reagan administration to offer aid to Iraq out of concern that Iranian commanders were sending waves of young volunteers to overrun Iraqi forces. Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, then and now, met with President Saddam Hussein of Iraq and then told officials of the Central Intelligence Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency that Iraq's military command was ready to accept American aid.
In early 1988, after the Iraqi Army, with American planning assistance, retook the Fao Peninsula in an attack that reopened Iraq's access to the Persian Gulf, a defense intelligence officer, Lt. Col. Rick Francona, now retired, was sent to tour the battlefield with Iraqi officers, the American military officers said.
He reported that Iraq had used chemical weapons to cinch its victory, one former D.I.A. official said. Colonel Francona saw zones marked off for chemical contamination, and containers for the drug atropine scattered around, indicating that Iraqi soldiers had taken injections to protect themselves from the effects of gas that might blow back over their positions. (Colonel Francona could not be reached for comment.)
C.I.A. officials supported the program to assist Iraq, though they were not involved. Separately, the C.I.A. provided Iraq with satellite photography of the war front.
Col. Walter P. Lang, retired, the senior defense intelligence officer at the time, said he would not discuss classified information, but added that both D.I.A. and C.I.A. officials "were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose" to Iran.
"The use of gas on the battlefield by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern," he said. What Mr. Reagan's aides were concerned about, he said, was that Iran not break through to the Fao Peninsula and spread the Islamic revolution to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Colonel Lang asserted that the Defense Intelligence Agency "would have never accepted the use of chemical weapons against civilians, but the use against military objectives was seen as inevitable in the Iraqi struggle for survival." Senior Reagan administration officials did nothing to interfere with the continuation of the program, a former participant in the program said.
Iraq did turn its chemical weapons against the Kurdish population of northern Iraq, but the intelligence officers say they were not involved in planning any of the military operations in which those assaults occurred. They said the reason was that there were no major Iranian troop concentrations in the north and the major battles where Iraq's military command wanted assistance were on the southern war front.
The Pentagon's battle damage assessments confirmed that Iraqi military commanders had integrated chemical weapons throughout their arsenal and were adding them to strike plans that American advisers either prepared or suggested. Iran claimed that it suffered thousands of deaths from chemical weapons.
The American intelligence officers never encouraged or condoned Iraq's use of chemical weapons, but neither did they oppose it because they considered Iraq to be struggling for its survival, people involved at the time said in interviews.
Another former senior D.I.A. official who was an expert on the Iraqi military said the Reagan administration's treatment of the issue — publicly condemning Iraq's use of gas while privately acquiescing in its employment on the battlefield — was an example of the "Realpolitik" of American interests in the war.
The effort on behalf of Iraq "was heavily compartmented," a former D.I.A. official said, using the military jargon for restricting secrets to those who need to know them.
"Having gone through the 440 days of the hostage crisis in Iran," he said, "the period when we were the Great Satan, if Iraq had gone down it would have had a catastrophic effect on Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and the whole region might have gone down. That was the backdrop of the policy."
One officer said, "They had gotten better and better" and after a while chemical weapons "were integrated into their fire plan for any large operation, and it became more and more obvious."
A number of D.I.A. officers who took part in aiding Iraq more than a decade ago when its military was actively using chemical weapons, now say they believe that the United States should overthrow Mr. Hussein at some point. But at the time, they say, they all believed that their covert assistance to Mr. Hussein's military in the mid-1980's was a crucial factor in Iraq's victory in the war and the containment of a far more dangerous threat from Iran.
The Pentagon "wasn't so horrified by Iraq's use of gas," said one veteran of the program. "It was just another way of killing people — whether with a bullet or phosgene, it didn't make any difference," he said.
Former Secretary of State Shultz and Vice President Bush tried to stanch the flow of chemical precursors to Iraq and spoke out against Iraq's use of chemical arms, but Mr. Shultz, in his memoir, also alluded to the struggle in the administration.
"I was stunned to read an intelligence analysis being circulated within the administration that `we have demolished a budding relationship (with Iraq) by taking a tough position in opposition to chemical weapons,' " he wrote.
Mr. Shultz also wrote that he quarreled with William J. Casey, then the director of central intelligence, over whether the United States should press for a new chemical weapons ban at the Geneva Disarmament Conference. Mr. Shultz declined further comment.
Suit: Iraq masterminded attack/Entire Oklahoma City plot allegedly 'aided by agents' of Baghdad
Link:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/646947/posts
You are correct about the Murrah security but:
The US Marshals specifically warned Judge Wayne Alley in OKC who was protected by the US MArshals in the Federal COurt house directly across the street from the MUrrah Federal building to the South. ALley told Joseph Camarratta (paula Jones attorney who I worked with) in 1996 that Alley had gotten his warning from the US MArshals.
The US Federal Protective services in the COurt House also provided some loose surveillance of the Murrah building. I interviewed the head of the Protective Services for the COurt House, Tom E Hunt, in 1995 who told me FBI agents were in the Murrah building at 9 am sharp every morning and sometimes dropped off kids at the day care center in Murrah that his wife Danielle ran.
John Morris Kuper saw US Marshal's barracades up in the alley between the Federal COurt House and Murrah the morning of the bombing that normally were not there. Kuper saw McVeigh and a ME man at 8 am walking down the side walk near the Murrah building in front of two surveillance cameras which the FBI confiscated. Kuper was a witness at the Nichols trial who prosecutors called a liar. But after FBI 302 reports were found in 2001 proving Kuper correct, the prosecutor who called Kuper a liar, Pat Ryan, apologized publicly but by then the truth had been skewered at the trial. Ryan is also the attorney who publicly called me a liar when I told him that GOnzales had put the US Marshals on alert at all Federal buildings (including Murrah) just before the OKC bombing.
After I first interviewed Kuper,Jayna Davis told Kuper not to talk to me ! Kuper called to tell me what Davis told him about me-it was disgusting. Davis adnmitted to me later what she had done over me with Kuper but I got no apology from her-not a Christian act on her part in my opinion.
I also know a witness who saw US Marshalls detain a Ryder truck in the ally at 8:30 am on April 19, 1995.
Updated May 29, 2001, 10:40 a.m. ET
New documents may bolster two-bomber theory
NEW YORK (AP) — One of the newly discovered FBI documents handed over to Timothy McVeigh's lawyers calls into question evidence used to discredit a witness who testified he saw McVeigh with a second man an hour before the bombing, according to a published report.
The witness' credibility came under attack in part because a prosecutor said the man did not come forward for six months after the Oklahoma City bombing. But the FBI document, known as a lead sheet, confirmed he came forward two days after the bombing, The New York Times reported Sunday, citing an unidentified source familiar with the case.
In all, 4,034 pages of materials about the April 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building have been found that should have been turned over to McVeigh's attorneys years ago. The FBI says computer and record-keeping blunders caused the problem and that some documents were not material to the case.
McVeigh's execution was delayed this month until June 11 after Justice Department officials acknowledged the existence of the documents.
The lead sheet pertained to Morris John Kuper Jr., a witness who told the FBI he saw a man resembling McVeigh walking with another man along the sidewalk near the federal building an hour before the bombing.
In the trial of McVeigh's co-defendant, Terry Nichols, prosecutor Patrick Ryan challenged Kuper's credibility by saying he had made no attempt to contact the FBI before Oct. 24, 1995.
"I certainly would never intentionally tell the jury someone had not come forward for six months if I knew they had come forward a couple of days after the bombing,'' Ryan, now a lawyer in private practice, told the Times.
I certainly would never intentionally tell the jury someone had not come forward for six months if I knew they had come forward a couple of days after the bombing,'' Ryan, now a lawyer in private practice, told the Times.
Yeah, sure.
1. what ever happened to hoppi?
2. what did johnson find out from his interview w/ strassmier?
I don't recall you mentioning this witness before now.
how does this square with the videos showing "a" ryder truck pulling up the street shortly before 9 am?
how does this square with testimony of mcveigh pulling into an OKC business (tire store???) to ask directions on how to get to Murrah just before 9 am?
would the 302's proving kuper to be correct have any impact on nichols getting a new trial?
He was Deputy Chief of the CIA Counterterrorist Center at the CIA Headquarters starting in June 1996.
He was the FBI's first representative to the CIA's Counter terorism center set up in 1999 and was made Assistant Director of the Counter-Terrorism Division.
Watson played a key role in the OKC investigation out of his Kansas City FBI post(Coverup).
He has overseen the investigation of the 9/11 attacks.
Kenneth Williams sent his detailed warning memo about the ALQaeda airliner attacks(Hanny Hanjour,etc) in the US to Dale Watson and his deputy in July 2001 which Watson and his deputy say he never received. Williams went to the CIA with his memo also who sent a version of it to brief the President on Aug 6, 2001. Since Watson served withthe CIA Counter Terror center you have got to wonder if Watson would have also learned of the Williams memo via the CIA and the CIA/FBI interface at this center
He has overseen the investigation of the anthrax mailings.
He has overseen the 1998 Kenyan and Tanzanian Embassy Bombings
He has overseen the invetigation of the USS Cole.
Watson would have known about the FBI agents who went to the Norman flight school in 1999 to discuss ALQaeda pilots trianing at the flight school which the FBI told the school it knew about in 1999.
Watson could have and should have known about the FBI informants used in the 1993 WTC bombing,OKC bombing , the Tanzanian and Kenyan bombings and the USS cole bombing and the 9/11 attacks. He should know about Khalid Mohammed, Melvin Lattimore (From St Louis Missouri)and especially ALi Mohammed. He should know about FBI detailed foreknowledge of these events and the use of FBI provacateurs and informants. As Assistant FBI SAC in Kansas City starting in April 1994 he should know in detail of the coverup of the OKC bombing in Kansas especially the Kansas connection to McVeigh, Strassmeir, Hussaini and other FBI infiltrated Kansas militia type provacateurs.
Will Dale Watson be called to testify and asked really tough questions before Congress about what he really knows?? And did Mueller and Ashcroft just put Watson out of harms way and protect his pension and retirement and protect the FBI/DOJ/CIA from incriminating revelations of connivance with terrorists and provocateurs?
If the Congress really wants to know about all the connivance (I doubt Congress really wants to know all since it might reflect badly on some in Congress), Dale Watson should be made to tell all he knows.
Surely the surveillance tape(s) that the FBI confiscated would show this particular truck passing the building around that time frame anyway.
What is the deal with the tapes? Can't a FOIA request release them? Surely "national security" can't be used as a reason.
The Executive Assistant Director for Counterterrorism/Counterintelligience DALE WATSON has been replaced by Bruce J. Gebhardt effective August 15, 2002 by FBI Director Mueller because Mueller says Watson wants to retire to the private sector after only serving at his most recent post since December 2, 2001.
I wonder of Watson knows about FBI agent Joseph Rogoskeys legal complaints of illegalities in nationl security operations in the US by the FBI and CIA?
Mueller, AShcroft and Matsch have sealed and blocked all surveillance tapes related to the OKC case. OKC attorney Michael Johnson has tried in court for years ( I have helped him)to get the tapes released. General Partin visited with AShcroft in person in VIrgina last summer 2001 and could not get Ashcroft to release the tapes. Makes you wonder what they are hiding-identities of FBI informants, provocatuers and agents?
Sooner or later a bolt of lighting from God Himself will hit these coverup artists for their connivance (My opinion).
Connivance:
"Knowledge of and active or passive consent to wrongdoing."
Connive:
"To pretend ignorance of or fail to take action against something one ought to oppose."
I did not realize the full extent and implications of these definitions until I looked them up. I am glad I used them in my summary beacuse they are appropriate to the situation we are and have been facing.
The words "Connivance" and "conive" describe the actions of the FBI and DOJ and some in Congress in my opinion over the handling of terror actacks in hte US over the past 8-9 years.
Complicit and culpability are two other good words that apply but I think connivance and conive really are the best words to describe the situation overall.
He has overseen the 1998 Kenyan and Tanzanian Embassy Bombings INVESTIGATIONS.
The conspiracy freaks are at it again...what a load of horsesh*t.
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