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Severe economic downturn could bring 1930s-style reform
Associated Press / Wall Street Journal

Posted on 07/24/2002 7:44:25 AM PDT by RCW2001

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1 posted on 07/24/2002 7:44:25 AM PDT by RCW2001
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To: RCW2001
Let's hope to HELL it doesn't bring "1930s-style reform." Let's look at some of those reforms:

Glass-Steagall fixed a problem that now, economists almost universally agree, did not exist. It separated "banking and investment" functions under the assumptions that banks were pumping depositor money into the stock market, which weakened the banks. One small problem: all the research we have now shows that the STRONGEST banks were the ones with "securities affiliates" and the weakest ones were the banks WITHOUT! Thanks Congress. Thanks FDR.

FDIC. Long thought by old timers to have "rescued the banking system" along with FDR's "bank holiday," deposit insurance, base on all the evidence we NOW have, was the WEAKEST type of banking "reform" available. In the 1920s, every state that had mandatory bank deposit insurance had horrible bank collapses. Where were banks strong? Where they had branch banking rules that allowed banks to branch, thus diversify risk. But the government did NOT legislate national branch banking, and hasn't done so to this day. That reform alone would have greatly strengthened the system. Instead, a mutant step-child of FDIC, FSLIC, played a key role in the 1970s-1980s S&L collapse by posing a "moral hazard." The S&Ls, due to REGULATION, were already in trouble, but managers and owners, assuring themselves that the depositors were "protected" by the FSLIC, took huge risks in an effort to right their sinking ships. Deposit insurance alone, certainly, was not to blame, but it was a BIGGER cause than people know.

How about "reforms" in the labor market, where the stupid "minimum wage" law virtually ENDED employment growth that had started to take place in 1934-1935? Studies now show that it alone perpetuated the Great Depression. More reforms like that?

The last thing we need to do is to treat this like a new "New Deal." That was the biggest economic disaster in our history, and the Great Depression was almost 100% the result of dumb government policies, from the Fed to Hoover to (most importantly) FDR.

2 posted on 07/24/2002 7:52:53 AM PDT by LS
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To: RCW2001
This country wont survive a major depression like the 30's.

Back then we were a MORAL people as a whole. Today ? Revolution and civil war would engulf this country like an FAE explosion.

4 posted on 07/24/2002 8:07:29 AM PDT by Centurion2000
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To: Centurion2000
Some hope the above is likely. Hillary right now is planning to be the new FDR and life would be hell under that scenario. Scary thought. But I think we could survive a depression,,the strong will based on their character and virtue. The weak wouldn't. If you believe character begats strength, as I do, I have no doubt I would survive along with a number, a great number, of freepers.
5 posted on 07/24/2002 8:12:47 AM PDT by cajungirl
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To: LS
A fine post, LS.

The prospect of silly, constricting new laws from Congress are spooking markets. It is largely not some media contrived notion that everyone is scared of the next corporate crook behind the door. The markets may at least stabilize in August when Congress goes on vacation.
6 posted on 07/24/2002 8:33:45 AM PDT by Lee_Atwater
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To: RCW2001

By a 63 percent-33 percent margin, Americans say the president and Congress should focus on prosecuting corporate wrongdoers rather than passing new laws.

People are becoming acutely aware that their tax dollars are being used to create more and more new laws instead of protecting citizens.

As long as State and Federal governments continue to extort income-tax  from the productive working class and creative business community the parasitical-politicians and self-serving bureaucrats will never run out of ways to spend that money to the net harm of the working class, the business community and society in general. If it's not the Democrats it's the Republicans -- usually both.

As Mr. Brown used to joking say to us neighborhood kids, "Which do you want, a fat lip or a busted eyebrow." That was not lost on me. From Democrats you get one, from Republicans you get the other. Voting for the lesser of evils still begets evil.

The Genie is Out of the Bottle

Congress has created so many laws that virtually every person is assured of breaking more than just traffic laws. Surely with all this supposed lawlessness people and society should have long ago run head long into destruction. But it has not.

Instead, people and society have progressively prospered. Doing so despite politicians creating on average, 3,000 new laws each year which self-serving alphabet-agency bureaucrats implement/utilize to justify their usurped power and unearned paychecks. They both proclaim from on high -- with complicit endorsement from the media and academia -- that all those laws are "must-have" laws to thwart people and society from running headlong into self-destruction.

Again, despite not having this year's 3,000 must-have laws people and society increased prosperity for years and decades prior. How can it be that suddenly the people and the society they form has managed to be so prosperous for so long but suddenly they will run such great risk of destroying their self-created prosperity? Three hindered new laws each year is overkill, but 3,000 is, well, it's insane.

The government is the all time champion of cooking the books and it has the gall to point fingers at the whole business community because of a few bad apples. The entire business community and employees that support it should stand tall against a government feigning to protect the little guy from organizations that cook their books.

If there was ever a prime example of the fox guarding the hen house it is the government claiming to protect the little guy from organizations that cook their books. President Bush will have to militarily smash down terrorism. For that is his job. It's not the President's, congress' or the government's job to manipulate the economy.

The business community with their employees will have to stand tall against the PC-status-quo fox -- self-proclaimed authorities claiming/feigning they'll use the government to protect the little guy and a complicit media and academia that supports them; for they are all the fox -- to regain their rightful place as the champions of honest business that has always increased the well-being of people.

The government, having already manipulated the economy to almost no-end, President Bush can play the unbeatable five-ace hand of replacing the threat-of-force IRS and graduated income tax with a don't-pay-the-tax-if-you-don't-want-to consumption tax. For example, implement the proposed national retail sales tax (NRST). Not only would that win votes for Bush and republicans in congress it would boom the economy.

Where will it lead?

War of Two Worlds
Value Creators versus Value Destroyers

Politics is not the solution. It's the problem!

The first thing civilization must have is business/science. It's what the family needs so that its members can live creative, productive, happy lives. Business/science can survive, even thrive without government/bureaucracy.

Government/bureaucracy cannot survive without business/science. In general, business/science and family is the host and government/bureaucracy is a parasite.

Aside from that, keep valid government services that protect individual rights and property. Military defense, FBI, CIA, police and courts. With the rest of government striped away those few valid services would be several fold more efficient and effective than they are today. 

Underwriters Laboratory is a private sector business that has to compete in a capitalist market. Underwriters laboratory is a good example of success where government fails.

Any government agency that is a value to the people and society -- which there are but a few -- could better serve the people by being in the private sector where competition demands maximum performance.

Wake up! They are the parasites. We are the host. We don't need them. They need us.

* * *

After all, in calling for the resignation of Securities and Exchange Commissioner Harvey Pitt, McCain declares, “Government’s demands for corporate accountability are only credible if government executives are held accountable as well." Does that mean U.S. senators? Congress, Accounting, and the Free Market (McCain is grandstanding again)

"Too often, we have cooked the books, exploited off-balance sheet accounting, fudged budget numbers and failed to disclose fully the nation's assets and liabilities. If we in Washington are to have credibility in the public eye as we address the corporate accounting mess, we must reform our own fiscal practices," said McCain. Social Security Called A Bigger Fraud Than Corporate Scandals

Prove it first. It's not like it's a new discovery or problem. It's a seventy-year-old problem. It's just that now politicians and bureaucrats have trapped themselves and the general public is becoming increasingly aware. They've been caught and McCain is getting interview time to peddle gussied-up compassionate government.

"Allowing Americans to invest responsibly a small part of their payroll taxes will not only save Social Security, but will provide them with greater retirement income than those who no or will soon depend on Social Security checks," said McCain. Social Security Called A Bigger Fraud Than Corporate Scandals

Notice McCain so readily self-proclaims himself and government the authority to allow Americans to invest part of their own money. But he has a condition; it most be done responsibly. And who decides what is responsible? Certainly not the all-time champion, cook-the-books bureaucrats and snake-oil-salesmen politicians.

They -- self-proclaimed authorities -- are running citizens and society headlong into destruction. 

7 posted on 07/24/2002 8:49:28 AM PDT by Zon
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To: RCW2001
This is all perfectly natural. We reward failure with power. Socialism produces failure and so we create more Socialism. This is why the Republicans and Democrats are so addicted to Socialism.
8 posted on 07/24/2002 8:53:42 AM PDT by AdamSelene235
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To: LS
The last thing we need to do is to treat this like a new "New Deal." That was the biggest economic disaster in our history,

We're still enjoying the benefits of the contruction of the Great Hydroelectric Dams that were built during this period. And the CCC built some really nice state parks in Pennsylvania.

Time to increase tariffs and build some infrastructure.
Put America back to work again CREATING wealth, not merely consumeing and squandering wealth in the "service" sector.

9 posted on 07/24/2002 8:58:58 AM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Willie Green
Sure thing.
10 posted on 07/24/2002 9:01:31 AM PDT by habs4ever
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To: cajungirl
Let's hope there won't be a need to "build strength through character" too much...the sensible FReeper-types will survive, I agree, but imagine this "scenario" down the road (from the article):

A Democratic takeover would produce a dramatically different approach, in tone and substance, to the relationship between government and business. The new chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee would likely be Rep. John Dingell of Michigan, who supports a national health-insurance program. He is currently campaigning as a staunch foe of corporate misbehavior. The new chairman of the House Financial Services Committee would be Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, who backs reregulation of the cable-television industry. The new chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee would be Rep. Charles Rangel of New York, who has proposed amending the U.S. Constitution to guarantee every American "a right to a home."

And that's just Dingell, Frank and Rangel in the House...time to get to work on "getting the vote out"!!

11 posted on 07/24/2002 9:32:16 AM PDT by 88keys
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To: RCW2001
FUBAR will be the voter response if the market is a leading indicator of the economy.

Business leaders have led the way in setting a darwininan 'market economy' as panacea. But Elections come in a Democracy because we are a 'political' economy and not a pure market force dictatorship. This means that the results of our economic system are juried and approved by a majority of voters at election time.

I started school in NYC in the 30s and you guys have no idea of the euphoria that swept the neighborhoods with Roosevelt. As a kid I remember the sounds of 'Happy Days are Here Again' and the posting of the NRA Blue Eagle signs everywhere restored confidence in the economy.

In that election, the voters took the ball from business and handed it to government. Yes, then Government grew and stole the ball. FDR turned into a manipulator and dictatorially swept into office for an unprecedented four times.

So what is the message for the GOP? Grab the ball from business before the Democrats do. COME UP WITH A PLAN TO REDUCE UNCERTAINTY BEFORE THE DEMOCRATS DO. Uncertainty will be the death of the GOP. Jawboning won't cut it. The 'long run' ends on election day.

12 posted on 07/24/2002 9:34:23 AM PDT by ex-snook
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To: Willie Green
And see "capital flight" like we have never seen...into Asia, Australia and even Russia...
We are not the only "store" on the street anymore.
13 posted on 07/24/2002 9:42:42 AM PDT by kaktuskid
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To: kaktuskid
And see "capital flight" like we have never seen...into Asia, Australia and even Russia...

No, tariff revenues can be used to offset a reduction in the corporate income tax:

A Proposal to Abolish the Corporate Income Tax

Voila! The return of the American wealth-creating dynamo!

14 posted on 07/24/2002 9:54:58 AM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Centurion2000
Maybe that's one reason we now have a homeland tank battalion in Alabama.
15 posted on 07/24/2002 10:00:51 AM PDT by Soren
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To: Willie Green
Er, sorry dude, but those "benefits" of hydroelectric dams were built on the BACKS of millions of Americans stuck in poverty at the time. Some benefit.

Oh yah, tarrifs are great. Like Hawley Smoot, which virtually EVERY economist now agrees basically caused the market crash in 1929 and made the Depression MUCH worse. How much worse? Well, recent studies---TWO of them by different economists---agree that HS probably took a good five percent off GNP. Yah, that is really "creating wealth." With wealth creation like that, we would look like Albania soon. Dream on, bud.

16 posted on 07/24/2002 10:28:46 AM PDT by LS
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To: LS
Er, sorry dude, but those "benefits" of hydroelectric dams were built on the BACKS of millions of Americans stuck in poverty at the time. Some benefit.

Sounds like you resent the nation presenting the opportunity to perform "an honest day's work for an honest day's pay."

Guess you'd prefer the soup-kitchen & bread-line handouts that were the alternative back then.

17 posted on 07/24/2002 10:32:56 AM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Centurion2000
This country wont survive a major depression like the 30's.

Back then we were a MORAL people as a whole. Today ? Revolution and civil war would engulf this country like an FAE explosion

"Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." John Adams, 1798

18 posted on 07/24/2002 10:42:02 AM PDT by Fithal the Wise
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To: LS
"Like Hawley Smoot, which virtually EVERY economist now agrees basically caused the market crash in 1929 "

Upon further review - Smoot-Hawley was passed in June 1930, hardly before the market crash.

19 posted on 07/24/2002 10:45:48 AM PDT by ex-snook
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To: RCW2001
"Boost SEC budget 66 percent, to $776 million for fiscal
2003"

Ooh Yeah!

I hope John Cortizone realizes that he is the pot calling the kettle black. Mr. Super Socialist was Goldman-Sachs CEO and is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And I get more money sucked out of me in taxes that makes starting my own business that much harder.

Little Shits!!

I wish we would go back to the gold standard, end state licensing for all but a few professions, and remove most regulations.
20 posted on 07/24/2002 11:16:57 AM PDT by jjm2111
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