U.S. Should Consider Giving Military Arrest Powers, Ridge Says

Bloomberg.com ^ | 7/21/02 | Alex Canizares

[GeneD]

Washington, July 21 (Bloomberg) -- The government should consider reversing a more than a century of tradition and law to give the military authority to make arrests and fire their weapons on U.S. soil in the event of a terrorist attack, Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge said.

[habaes corpussel]

"The reason this law change is needed is so the National Guard will not have to walk around with empty rifles, as they now have to do because of the posse comitatus law."

Wrong. There is nothing preventing the National Guard from being armed with loaded weapons. That is a policy not a law. It started after Kent State and for some stupid reason just continued.

[Bella_Bru]

Just tattoo the ID number on my forehead ping!

[Mulder]

Felt powerless with regard to civil rights; felt comfort for the increased security.

The implementation of checkpoints on roads that we Americans paid for, constitutes "the line" for a lot of patriots.

[Jhoffa_]

Wrong. There is nothing preventing the National Guard from being armed with loaded weapons. That is a policy not a law. It started after Kent State and for some stupid reason just continued.

Well, in addition to common sense.

It's my feeling that deployment of the Guard in the airports was nothign more than high profile fluff to make people feel secure.

They were completely unnecessary and it truly was a clintonian display of symbolism over substance.

(Also, yes.. I think at least some did have ammunition. I seem to remember seeing a story here on one who shot himself in the bottocks while "on patrol" Imagine, these are our saviors!)

[Mulder]

This was from civil police, looking out for me, bless em. From little seeds a big tree grows.

Just wait until the foreign troops start doing that task.

[AmishDude]

Psst. You aren't supposed to be rational on this thread. This is for the sky-is-falling crowd to tell us how we are descending into Nazi Germany.

Before the thread is up, you'll see references to the New World Order and the STASI as well as mention of the Patriot Act, the War on Drugs and a thousand other bogeymen -- real or imagined -- that bear no weight whatsoever on this issue.

Interesting, isn't it, that we'd managed to survive from 1787-1878 without a Posse Comitatus act? I wonder what was in place then.

Oh, and for anyone who thinks we're all doomed, please send me all of your money and cool electronics. Contact me by Freepmail to find out how to get it to me.

[Coastie]

The US Coast Guard is not part of the DoD, it's part of Dept of Transportation which gives them the law enforcement authority. They come under the Navy in time of war at the request of the SecNav. We are consdered to be and we consider ourselves as part of the armed forces. Split personalities, multi tasking, the Gerber tool of the government.
When the Navy does counter drug patrols, they have a Coastie team on board and when they stop a vessel, they fly the CG ensign which makes the Navy Warship a Coast Guard Cutter, (temporarily.)and gives them the law enforcement power. That's normal peacetime ops, wartime is different.

[livius]

I would suspect the police were probably looking for something other than seat-belts, but because "profiling" is a no-no, they had to find a pretext for stopping everybody. It's like the airports, where I have lost many a nail-clipper (my sister, who is a choral director, almost had her tuning fork taken away!), all so nobody can be accused of "profiling."

[Saturn_V]

There are not enough people in the US to protect all 'vulnerable' bits, let alone police/military personel - this is particularly true if the attackers are willing to die to perform their mission. In all seriousness, adding the entirety of the military to the police forces would do essentially nothing for security. This is particularly true since the role of the military and the role of the police differ vastly.

In response to your other comment, the National Guard did not walk around with unloaded weapons (at least not around here) - one of them managed to shoot himself while attempting to clear his sidearm after a patrol.

-SV

[cynicom]

Dude...

Hark!!!!! Is that the sound of your jackboots I hear???

[Mulder]

Interesting, isn't it, that we'd managed to survive from 1787-1878 without a Posse Comitatus act? I wonder what was in place then.

Tell you what. I'll support of a repeal of the Posse Comitatus act if every other federal law passed since 1878 is repealed also.

[AmishDude]

Yep, Amerika is on its way. I prefer money orders.

[habaes corpussel]

"checked inside the backseat"

Can't do it. They have no right to conduct any type of search. I got stopped last week as well for the same thing. The moment the officer asked me for my driver’s license, I told him here you go officer, but I oppose any form of search. When he asked why? I told him how about the rule of law. He just stared sharply at me and handed me my license back.

These check points are getting out of control. They do almost nothing in arrests.

[Mulder]

There are not enough people in the US to protect all 'vulnerable' bits, let alone police/military personel

That will be part of the pretense for bringing in the foreign troops.

[AmishDude]

Interestingly, the idea of domestic police unattached to the military is relatively new, historically speaking. Interesting that Posse Comitatus is extra-constitutional.

[old school]

"What do you think about having foreign troops here? Because that's who will be guarding these assets eventually."

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenarios, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."

--Henry Kissinger in an address to the Bilderberg organization meeting at Evian, France, May 21, 1992. Transcribed from a tape recording made by one of the Swiss delegates.

[cynicom]

habaes...

The checking was a visual check. I was driving so I thot it odd they look in backseat for my seatbelt. It was a shakedown, pure and simple for whatever they might turn up, the "law" for my security mind you, gave them the pretext to stop me. I suspicion that had I had something of interest in the backseat, they would have "asked" permission to search.

[Saturn_V]

I doubt it. There are not many countries which have the resources (money/manpower/material) to stage a long-range deployment in anything like significant numbers, let alone significant time frames. Include the possibility of hostile reaction of the natives, the lack of political will (on the part of the foreign governments), and the fact that an event that would trigger such a deployment would also demonstrate fairly conclusively that such a deployment would be ineffectual, and I see no circumstance under which your prediction could be realized...

-SV

[TigersEye]

The reason this law change is needed is so the National Guard will not have to walk around with empty rifles, as they now have to do because of the posse comitatus law.

It has now been pointed out to you that there already exist several ways (under current law) to call in the military when needed, ergo; Presidential directive or by the directive of any states Governor, not to mention the role the FBI and Federal Marshalls of the DOJ play in such situations, and yet you insist that we need to 'deputize the military' in the name of 'national security'. You yourself say there are not enough police, military etc. to even patrol our borders adequately yet you persist in the notion that giving arrest and shoot to kill authority to the National Guard and other military would somehow make safe the thousands of dams, thousands of power sources like utility companies and refineries, tens of thousands of bridges and hundreds of thousands of miles of highways, to name just a very few potential targets. That logic just doesn't add up.

The terrorists can count you as a victim. You're apparently terrified. Frankly four hi-jacked planes and five or less envelopes with a little anthrax, which may have come from some nut case not a terrorist, hasn't got me ready to shave my head get a tattoo and a micro-chip yet.

[habaes corpussel]

I just heard a ABC news clip where Senator Fred Thompson is saying that he supports modifying the Posse Comitatus Act to include the military in searches and seizures in the United States. I think Congress has now really gone off the deep end. There is no need for modifying the Posse Comitatus Act If we are at war, the Joint Resolution or even an Act of War will do just fine. This is becoming very dangerous. I trust the Bush administration to a large extent though I have my concerns with them. But I do not blindly trust the US Government nor any other future Administration.

This is scary.