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Safire: J. Edgar Mueller
The New York Times ^ | 6/3/02 | William Safire

Posted on 06/03/2002 7:06:33 AM PDT by Zeroisanumber

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To: bigdog
Please, exactly, what is unconstitutional about these new guidelines?
Have you even read the new guidelines yet yourself?
I've just started reading them myself so I can't give an answer. Even after I get through reading them I'm not sure if I'm going to even comment on them.
Direct link...
21 posted on 06/03/2002 9:57:18 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: bigdog
We're at WAR!

Gosh darn it! I missed that Senate vote. What was the result of the vote to declare war, anyway?

Tuor

22 posted on 06/03/2002 9:58:53 AM PDT by Tuor
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: philman_36
I sure do get it now!

Thanks for the clarification.

I don't suppose the 2900+ dead in NYC or the dead GI's in Afganisterrible would be as persnickety.

Stay safe.

BD

24 posted on 06/03/2002 10:03:54 AM PDT by bigdog
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To: Zeroisanumber
Thus we see the seizure of new powers of surveillance is a smokescreen to hide failure to use the old power.

Wow. Someone lit a fire under his posterior, and I'm glad for it. This article was dead on all the way through. We're fools if we think the government will use these powers wisely or with restraint. They may do so in the beginning, but that wont last for long.

There's something approaching on the radar, and it's a police state. We're headed for it at ever increasing speed. What possibly can stop us before we crash headlong into it?

Tuor

25 posted on 06/03/2002 10:05:25 AM PDT by Tuor
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To: Amelia
I'm not sure I "get" exactly what Safire is complaining about...my understanding is that the things they can now look at are in the public domain anyway - am I wrong?

My email is not public domain, and neither is yours. My possessions and private papers are not public domain, yet the FBI can look through them now without a warrant or probable cause. They can track my every move for a year before having to tell me I'm under investigation. They can hold me without accusing me of a crime, without arresting me.

Things *are* changing... they're changing for the worse.

Tuor

26 posted on 06/03/2002 10:08:43 AM PDT by Tuor
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To: Elle Bee; Donald Stone; Joe Montana; Uncle Bill
ping!
27 posted on 06/03/2002 10:08:51 AM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: Rightuvu
Right...

It certainly does. Both "parties" and most professional politicians understand one thing, "POWER". Patriots were the founding Fathers, several of whom could have seized power with little effort, however, they were a different breed than what we have had for a long time.

Bush is determined to be re-elected, at any price, that is the nature of the beast.

28 posted on 06/03/2002 10:18:47 AM PDT by cynicom
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To: bigdog
You're getting veeeery sleepy...you're eyes are beginning to get heavy...
Just a sec. Oops...nevermind. You were already asleep.
29 posted on 06/03/2002 10:32:27 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
Over and out.
30 posted on 06/03/2002 10:35:05 AM PDT by bigdog
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To: bigdog
Over and out.
In and under.

White.

31 posted on 06/03/2002 10:38:16 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Tuor
My email is not public domain, and neither is yours. My possessions and private papers are not public domain, yet the FBI can look through them now without a warrant or probable cause.

Ok, the news coverage of this, and the beginning of the article, has said they would only be able to use public domain stuff.

32 posted on 06/03/2002 10:50:46 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: Amelia
The way they rationalize it is that they say you are under investigation, and so they have the right to look at your stuff. I don't know what happens after the year if they don't find anything, but somehow I don't think that will be a problem for them.

The 4th Amendment, as we know it, is dead. I guess this one was an easier target than the 2nd and the 1st. So the 4th and 10th are gone: this will weaken those that are left, as the Bill of Rights was intended to be an all or none proposition when it was debated and decided upon.

I'm going to read the FBI changes in full once I get some sleep. But essentially what has happened is that the FBI has become the domestic version of the CIA: the 'I' now stands for Intelligence (as in information gathering, not a sign of their intellect), not Investigation.

Tuor

33 posted on 06/03/2002 11:14:12 AM PDT by Tuor
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To: Tuor
bump
34 posted on 06/03/2002 11:57:28 AM PDT by Zeroisanumber
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To: Fred Mertz
That's why the FBI hired 900 more analyst !!!!!

If it wasn't so serious it would be laughable !!!!!!

I seriously doubt that you would be able to find any 10 FBI empolyees with combined reading comprehension skills greater than a 1st or 2nd grade reading level.

They had the power to collect the intelligence, but lacked the intellect to analyze the data the agencies collected.

35 posted on 06/03/2002 1:58:36 PM PDT by Donald Stone
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To: bigdog
Please, exactly, what is unconstitutional about these new guidelines?
Okay, I've read the guidelines. Have you? I'm ready to discuss them.
As to what is "unconstitutional about these new guidelines"...that is what our discussion should reveal.
While there is nothing stating outright "these new guidelines are unconstitutional", nor should one expect there to be such an open admission, I do find some of it alarming.

To start matters off, I find this distrubing in light of the statements like undesirable individuals may be neded to work undercover. The screening process precludes many "unsavory individuals" from being used as CIs.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S GUIDELINES REGARDING THE USE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMANTS
II. REGISTERING A CONFIDENTIAL INFORMANT
A. SUITABILITY DETERMINATION
1. Initial Suitability Determination
Prior to utilizing a person as a CI, a case agent of a JLEA shall complete and sign a written Initial Suitability Report and Recommendation, which shall be forwarded to a Field Manager for his or her written approval. In completing the Initial Suitability Report and Recommendation, the case agent must address the following factors (or indicate that a particular factor is not applicable):
a. the person's age;
b. the person's alien status;
c. whether the person is a public official, law enforcement officer, union official, employee of a financial institution or school, member of the military services, a representative or affiliate of the media, or a party to, or in a position to be a party to, privileged communications (e. g., a member of the clergy, a physician, or a lawyer);
d. the extent to which the person would make use of his or her affiliations with legitimate organizations in order to provide information or assistance to the JLEA, and the ability of the JLEA to ensure that the person's information or assistance is limited to criminal matters;
e. the extent to which the person's information or assistance would be relevant to a present or potential investigation or prosecution and the importance of such investigation or prosecution;
f. the nature of any relationship between the CI and the subject or target of an existing or potential investigation or prosecution, including but not limited to a current or former spousal relationship or other family tie, and any current or former employment or financial relationship;
g. the person's motivation in providing information or assistance, including any consideration sought from the government for this assistance;
h. the risk that the person might adversely affect a present or potential investigation or prosecution;
i. the extent to which the person's information or assistance can be corroborated;
j. the person's reliability and truthfulness;
k. the person's prior record as a witness in any proceeding;
l. whether the person has a criminal history, is reasonably believed to be the subject or target of a pending criminal investigation, is under arrest, or has been charged in a pending prosecution;
m. whether the person is reasonably believed to pose a danger to the public or other criminal threat, or is reasonably believed to pose a risk of flight;
n. whether the person is a substance abuser or has a history of substance abuse;
o. whether the person is a relative of an employee of any law enforcement agency;
p. the risk of physical harm that may occur to the person or his or her immediate family or close associates as a result of providing information or assistance to the JLEA; and
q. the record of the JLEA and the record of any other law enforcement agency (if available to the JLEA) regarding the person's prior or current service as a CI, Cooperating Defendant/ Witness, or Source of Information, including, but not limited to, any information regarding whether the person was at any time terminated for cause.

I also found this rather disturbing...
Lawful, Warrantless Monitoring of Verbal Communications
II. NEED FOR WRITTEN AUTHORIZATION
A. Investigations Where Written Department of Justice Approval is Required
A request for authorization to monitor an oral communication without the consent of all parties to the communication must be approved in writing by the Director or Associate Director of the Office of Enforcement Operations, Criminal Division, U. S. Department of Justice, when it is known that:
(1) the monitoring relates to an investigation of a member of Congress, a federal judge, a member of the Executive Branch at Executive Level IV or above, or a person who has served in such capacity within the previous two years;
(2) the monitoring relates to an investigation of the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, or Attorney General of any State or Territory, or a judge or justice of the highest court of any State or Territory, and the offense investigated is one involving bribery, conflict of interest, or extortion relating to the performance of his or her official duties;
(3) any party to the communication is a member of the diplomatic corps of a foreign country;
(4) any party to the communication is or has been a member of the Witness Security Program and that fact is known to the agency involved or its officers;
(5) the consenting or nonconsenting person is in the custody of the Bureau of Prisons or the United States Marshals Service; or
(6) the Attorney General, Deputy Attorney General, Associate Attorney General, any Assistant Attorney General, or the United States Attorney in the district where an investigation is being conducted has requested the investigating agency to obtain prior written consent before conducting consensual monitoring in a specific investigation.
In all other cases, approval of consensual monitoring will be in accordance with the procedures set forth in part V. below.

Lords and serfs? I'm going to call that "The Mole Clause".

And what do you think of this...
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S GUIDELINES ON FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION UNDERCOVER OPERATIONS
C. INVESTIGATIONS
(1) A general crimes investigation may be initiated by the FBI when facts or circumstances reasonably indicate that a federal crime has been, is being, or will be committed. The investigation may be conducted to prevent, solve, or prosecute such criminal activity.
The standard of "reasonable indication" is substantially lower than probable cause. In determining whether there is reasonable indication of a federal criminal violation, a Special Agent may take into account any facts or circumstances that a prudent investigator would consider. However, the standard does require specific facts or circumstances indicating a past, current, or future violation. There must be an objective, factual basis for initiating the investigation; a mere hunch is insufficient.

We don't need no stinkin' probable cause! We just need "reasonable indication".

Or this from the same place...
A racketeering enterprise investigation may be initiated when facts or circumstances reasonably indicate that two or more persons are engaged in a pattern of racketeering activity as defined in the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO). However, the USA PATRIOT ACT (Public Law 107-56) expanded the predicate acts for RICO to include the crimes most likely to be committed by terrorists and their supporters, as described in 18 U. S. C. 2332b( g)( 5)( B). To maintain uniformity in the standards and procedures for criminal intelligence investigations relating to terrorism, investigations premised on racketeering activity involving offenses described in 18 U. S. C. 2332b( g)( 5)( B) are subject to the provisions for terrorism enterprise investigations rather than those for racketeering enterprise investigations.
A terrorism enterprise investigation may be initiated when facts or circumstances reasonably indicate that two or more persons are engaged in an enterprise for the purpose of:
(1) furthering political or social goals wholly or in part through activities that involve force or violence and a federal crime,
(2) engaging in terrorism as defined in 18 U. S. C. 2331( 1) or (5) that involves a federal crime, or
(3) committing any offense described in 18 U. S. C. 2332b( g)( 5)( B). As noted above, criminal intelligence investigations premised on a pattern of racketeering activity involving an 18 U. S. C. 2332b( g)( 5)( B) offense are also treated as terrorism enterprise investigations.

Which has this later on...
While no particular factor or combination of factors is required, considerations that will generally be relevant to the determination whether the threshold standard for a terrorism enterprise investigation is satisfied include, as noted, a group's statements, its activities, and the nature of potential federal criminal law violations suggested by its statements or activities. Thus, where there are grounds for inquiry concerning a group, it may be helpful to gather information about these matters, and then to consider whether these factors, either individually or in combination, reasonably indicate that the group is pursuing terrorist activities or objectives as defined in the threshold standard. Findings that would weigh in favor of such a conclusion include, for example, the following:
Snip...(2) Apparent ability or intent to carry out violence or other covered activities: The enterprise manifests an apparent ability or intent to carry out violence or other activities within the scope of 18 U. S. C. 2331( 1) or (5) or 2332b( g)( 5)( B), e. g.:
(i) by acquiring, or taking steps towards acquiring, biological agents or toxins, toxic chemicals or their precursors, radiological or nuclear materials, explosives, or other destructive or dangerous materials (or plans or formulas for such materials), or weapons, under circumstances where, by reason of the quantity or character of the items, the lawful purpose of the acquisition is not apparent;
(ii) by the creation, maintenance, or support of an armed paramilitary organization;
(iii) by paramilitary training; or
(iv) by other conduct demonstrating an apparent ability or intent to injure or intimidate individuals, or to interfere with the exercise of their constitutional or statutory rights.

Did I mention this...
Lawful, Warrantless Monitoring of Verbal Communications
The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968, as amended (18 U. S. C. §2510, et seq.), and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U. S. C. §1801, et seq.) permit government agents, acting with the consent of a party to a communication, to engage in warrantless monitoring of wire (telephone) communications and oral, nonwire communications. See United States v. White, 401 U. S. 745 (1971); United States v. Caceres, 440 U. S. 741 (1979). Similarly, the Constitution and federal statutes permit federal agents to engage in warrantless monitoring of oral, nonwire communications when the communicating parties have no justifiable expectation of privacy. 2 Because such monitoring techniques are particularly effective and reliable, the Department of Justice encourages their use by federal agents for the purpose of gathering evidence of violations of federal law, protecting informants or undercover law enforcement agents, or fulfilling other, similarly compelling needs. While these techniques are lawful and helpful, their use in investigations is frequently sensitive, so they must remain the subject of careful, self-regulation by the agencies employing them.
The sources of authority for this Memorandum are Executive Order No. 11396 (" Providing for the Coordination by the Attorney General of Federal Law Enforcement and Crime Prevention Programs"); Presidential Memorandum (" Federal Law Enforcement Coordination, Policy and Priorities") of September 11, 1979; Presidential Memorandum (untitled) of June 30, 1965, on, inter alia, the utilization of mechanical or electronic devices to overhear nontelephone conversations; the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1980 and the Paperwork Reduction Reauthorization Act of 1986, as amended; and the inherent authority of the Attorney General as the chief law enforcement officer of the United States.

Isn't that "Special!

I personally "voluntarily consent" to nothing and do state so!
I find that much of these new guidelines remove any trace of accountability to the upper echelon of the agencies. Many of the decisions have been placed with midlevel functionaries and allows "the big dogs" to say "I wasn't informed of that", just like it has been.
JMO.

36 posted on 06/04/2002 4:34:39 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: AAABEST
Ashcroft is a lying, anti-constitutional freak when he says this only allows agents to "surf the internet" or "attend public events".
Ah yes...the infamous "surf the internet" or "attend public events" statement.

General Crimes, Racketeering and Terrorism Investigations
D. OTHER AUTHORIZED ACTIVITIES
Current counterterrorism priorities and the advent of the Internet have raised a number of issues which did not exist in any comparable form when the last general revision of these Guidelines was carried out in 1989 – a time long preceding the September 11 attack's disclosure of the full magnitude of the terrorist threat to the United States, and a time in which the Internet was not available in any developed form as a source of information for counterterrorism and other anti-crime purposes. Part VI of these Guidelines is designed to provide clear authorizations and statements of governing principles for a number of important activities that affect these areas. Among other things, Part VI makes it clear that the authorized law enforcement activities of the FBI include:
(i) operating and participating in counterterrorism information systems, such as the Foreign Terrorist Tracking Task Force (VI. A( 1));
(ii) visiting places and events which are open to the public for the purpose or detecting or preventing terrorist activities (VI. A( 2));
(iii) carrying out general topical research, such as searching online under terms like "anthrax" or "smallpox" to obtain publicly available information about agents that may be used in bioterrorism attacks (VI. B( 1));
(iv) surfing the Internet as any member of the public might do to identify, e. g., public websites, bulletin boards, and chat rooms in which bomb making instructions, child pornography, or stolen credit card information is openly traded or disseminated, and observing information open to public view in such forums to detect terrorist activities and other criminal activities (VI. B( 2));
(v) preparing general reports and assessments relating to terrorism or other criminal activities in support of strategic planning and investigative operations (VI. B( 3)); and
(vi) providing investigative assistance to the Secret Service in support of its protective responsibilities (VI. B( 4)).

The Candyman can.
"There will be no free rides on the Internet for those who traffic in child pornography." John Ashcroft

Nothing new under the sun. While busting child porn producers and distributors is admirable IMO liberties are being taken too.
Burning the forest to get a few diseased trees.

37 posted on 06/04/2002 5:00:12 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: AAABEST
And there have always been diseased trees...ABSCAM!
38 posted on 06/04/2002 5:11:36 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: holdonnow
You remember ABSCAM don't you?
39 posted on 06/04/2002 5:15:21 AM PDT by philman_36
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