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Peggy Noonan: Dubya's New Deal
Opinion Journal ^ | 05/17/2002 | Peggy Noonan

Posted on 05/16/2002 9:10:34 PM PDT by Pokey78

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:04:29 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The president sacrifices whatever he must to win the war--just as FDR did.

Let me tell you what I think of the criticism that President Bush (a) reversed a half century of Republican philosophy on free trade and caved in on tariffs, and (b) accepted and endorsed a big-government farm bill that was so greasy, pork-filled and fat-laden that if you took the Farm Security and Rural Investment Act of 2002 in your hand and held a match to it would hiss, pop and sizzle like bacon in a big black skillet.


(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: peggynoonanlist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 05/16/2002 9:10:34 PM PDT by Pokey78
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To: Howlin; Miss Marple; summer; mombonn; Sabertooth; beckett; BlueAngel; JohnHuang2...
Ping for the PNPL.
2 posted on 05/16/2002 9:11:36 PM PDT by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
bump.
3 posted on 05/16/2002 9:19:55 PM PDT by hillsborofox
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To: Pokey78
I think she over looks the fact that not everyone that takes a poll bothers to go to the voters booth. Given the closeness of the last election a hundred votes can make or break a candidate.

Bush has toss'ed his base out in the cold by far more than a hundred votes. I rush to the television now to turn him off when he comes on, I can't bear to look at the man or listen to what he has to say. What he is saying probably isn't in my native tongue anyway.

I think 2004 will be a very interesting election given the Democrats habit of stuffing a couple of million bogus votes in the ballot boxes and given that a small, but possibly critical, percentage of the base will go fishing that day.

4 posted on 05/16/2002 9:30:41 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Pokey78
I disagree with one point in the article.

The base will forgive him, the nonbase hasn't noticed he did anything that needs forgiveness, and the opposition can hardly knock him for taking policy positions they've long supported.

The opposition will knock him for anything. They are not consistent, and logic fails them.

5 posted on 05/16/2002 9:31:16 PM PDT by Samwise
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To: Pokey78
The only weakness in this article is that FDR went to war against three nations, Bush is fighting against terrorists. That is like fighting a war on poverty or on drugs; how we doing on those wars anyhow?
6 posted on 05/16/2002 9:32:34 PM PDT by joeyman
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To: Pokey78
Mr. Bush has been justly smacked by pundits, but the man on the street and the woman being polled don't seem to think much of it, about it or against it.

------------------------

Most of those being polled don't know what is happening to them or have given up caring.

7 posted on 05/16/2002 9:34:13 PM PDT by RLK
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To: RLK
Why Democrats should draft George W.(FDR) Bush in 2004

Bush replaces busts of Roosevelt, JFK

The Roosevelt Nobody Knows

REPUBLICANS BLAME FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT

George the New Dealer, the next FDR. LOL! This keeps getting better by the day.

Eleanor's Red Communist Record

8 posted on 05/16/2002 9:38:02 PM PDT by Uncle Bill
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To: Pokey78
Why wouldn't he? Playing political games is what Mr. Carville does as a partisan, as an operative, as a holder of the banner of the opposition. It's not only a game but a lucrative one. And it's not terrible, it's show biz--occasionally funny, often colorful.

When people like Peggy Noonan say things like this I just get so depressed. It is true that it means nothing to any of them. They are paid political hacks or prostitutes. Makes me wonder why I care at all? Politics sucks. Today did nothing more than affirm that impression for me. I'm SO TEMPTED to just tune out. Probably wasn't the intent of Peggy's article but that's what it says to me. It's just a stupid game, forgetaboutit.

9 posted on 05/16/2002 9:39:54 PM PDT by Wphile
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To: Pokey78
Mr. Bush has been justly smacked by pundits, but the man on the street and the woman being polled don't seem to think much of it, about it or against it. Mr. Bush knows this and likes it.
If it's all about the polling (and I don't think that it is), then she should be comparing Bush to Clinton, not FDR.
10 posted on 05/16/2002 9:42:54 PM PDT by drjimmy
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To: Wphile
Sorry, Noonan's even more right than she imagined.

She overestimate's FDR. With a Democratic Congress & a liberal Court cowed by it to him, he couldn't get his program through. FDR haters here fail to understand that he essentially caved on most of the most important parts of his agenda.

His Uncle (once removed) equally took refuge in a political trench, although history can't see it. TR didn't get half -- hell, he didn't get a 1/3 of what he wanted through Congress. Both he and FDR won the PR battle but lost the legislative battle.

Bush is doing the same thing.

Lament it, but you'll be fighting history (with my sympathies)

11 posted on 05/16/2002 9:45:00 PM PDT by nicollo
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To: Pokey78
The president sacrifices whatever he must to win the war--just as FDR did.

Does this explain why the Bush adminstration has ignored credible evidence that the Clinton administration and democRATS tampered with our election process (by voter fraud and by adding millions of illegal contributions from communists to their campaign coffers), the privacy of individuals and many Republican leaders (inorder to blackmail them), sold US secrets and restricted data for more campaign cash (some call that treason), abused the IRS (used it to harass political opponents), abused the FBI and DOJ (corrupted both to cover up their misdeeds), abused the military (used it to wag the dog repeatedly), murdererd high level government employees who were deemed unreliable (like Foster and Brown), and committed mass murder (in order to kill Brown)? Is there ANYTHING that Bush is not willing to sacrifice in this war against terrorists ... who NEVER posed or could pose a threat to what this country is (and its not "buildings" and "people")? The sad truth is that if Bush sacrifices the Constitution and our laws to "win" this war ... we have lost.

So Mr. Bush is doing an FDR, and angering only a base that will forgive him.

Don't be so sure.

12 posted on 05/16/2002 9:54:09 PM PDT by BeAChooser
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To: Pokey78
The reason is that GWB is doing an FDR.

FDR would sacrifice anything, he'd tack left right and center, to win World War II. You can almost literally trace the end of FDR's New Deal legislation to the beginning of the war in Europe in September 1939.

---------------------------

This analogy is ridiculous. In WWII we had to build entire large armies, navies, and air forces starting with nothing. We had millions of men in uniform actively fighting a war. Today we have a very very limited effort. There are no Normandy invasions, battles of Midway and the Coral Sea or Iwo Jimas. I used to count train cars full of artillary and armor during WWII as a kid. I'd see trains well over 300 cars long pulled by three steam engines. There's nothing approaching that today.

Noonan is desperately trying to excuse Bush. It won't sell at my house. This kind of attempted spin is an insult to anyone's intelligence. This quality of thought has been typical of Bush and his supporters and has been a mojor factor in my disgust with Bush and the enrite scene.

It's time to cut out the spin and bullcrap and get serious.

13 posted on 05/16/2002 10:00:45 PM PDT by RLK
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To: all
I haven't been polled, but I definitely vote. I believe that Bush will do WHATEVER it takes to win this war and save American lives. And I say more power to him, whatever he has to do.

Obviously the Democrats are too dumb to come in out of the rain. They will do anything to get power, even if it means there isn't a country to have power IN. They don't know how even to act in their own best interests, much less the country's.

14 posted on 05/16/2002 10:09:36 PM PDT by WaterDragon
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To: MissAmericanPie
I think you're correct. I wasn't especially enthusiastic voting for President Bush the first time around. 2004 will be especially interesting if the DemocRATs manage to nominate someone other than Algore. I'm especially afraid of a Hillary! campaign.
15 posted on 05/16/2002 11:22:17 PM PDT by altair
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To: altair
Do you really think that after the Nov elections Bush won't throw many, many bones to the base? Carl Rove isn't stupid and he will have Bush roll out all kinds of things that the base will do cartwheels over !
16 posted on 05/16/2002 11:28:21 PM PDT by america-rules
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To: RLK
Noonan is desperately trying to excuse Bush. It won't sell at my house. This kind of attempted spin is an insult to anyone's intelligence. This quality of thought has been typical of Bush and his supporters and has been a mojor factor in my disgust with Bush and the enrite scene.

It's time to cut out the spin and bullcrap and get serious.

I agree. I don't know what has happened to this terribly intelligent woman lately. Maybe I over estimated her. She's an incredibly talented wordsmith. Maybe that's as far as it goes.

17 posted on 05/17/2002 12:26:56 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: Pokey78
If Mr. Bush's popularity falls, his party's popularity suffers. The congressional elections six months from now could produce a Democratic House and a more heavily Democratic Senate.

Even before this current assault by the media and Democrats implying Bush had advance knowledge of 9/11, some conservatives like Rush have been attacking him relentlessly without regard to upcoming elections. That didn't hurt his poll numbers, but I'll be interested in seeing his numbers in a few days after this out of control barrage on TV, radio, and front pages.

18 posted on 05/17/2002 12:27:12 AM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: america-rules
he will have Bush roll out all kinds of things that the base will do cartwheels over !

Maybe. But please, please no more tattoo removal parlors, thank you.

19 posted on 05/17/2002 12:43:34 AM PDT by altair
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To: Pokey78
Ya got to love this quote,

"Ann Coulter could eat her lunch off Paul Begala's head and use his tie as a napkin"

20 posted on 05/17/2002 4:05:47 AM PDT by bigdog
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To: Pokey78
Wow! A really weak effort by Noonan. She usually does better.
21 posted on 05/17/2002 4:37:31 AM PDT by RJCogburn
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To: Wphile
You shouldn't get emotional in the middle of a chess game. I look at Carville as an amotionalist, somebody who has the duty of inspiring the non-thinkers, the brown shirts and the religious followers of the political left.

The best way to win over the minds of the liberals is to make them use their minds in an intelligent manner rather than falling to the invidious sales pitches of their political leaders.

Cheers.

22 posted on 05/17/2002 4:50:39 AM PDT by gortklattu
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To: bigdog
Ya got to love this quote,

"Ann Coulter could eat her lunch off Paul Begala's head and use his tie as a napkin"

That's no big deal. If Begala would just lean back a bit, the entire city of NY could eat their lunch off his forehead.

23 posted on 05/17/2002 5:09:56 AM PDT by tear_down_this_wall
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To: Pokey78
Well this is interesting. Comparing a Republican president to FDR is now considered praise?

Pokey, you forgot the BARF ALERT.

24 posted on 05/17/2002 5:30:27 AM PDT by Tauzero
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To: RJCogburn
"Wow! A really weak effort by Noonan. She usually does better."

I think she did quite well... in light of her topic.

25 posted on 05/17/2002 5:43:09 AM PDT by Tauzero
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To: MissAmericanPie
a small, but possibly critical, percentage of the base will go fishing that day.

Rather than fishing, how about clean and test firing a few weapons?

26 posted on 05/17/2002 5:43:54 AM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: Pokey78
Peggy?

We love you, okay?

We love you, and we loved What I Saw at the Revolution, and we loved Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

We forgave you when you went a bit crazy, after 911. You lost friends, and it was a tough time for everybody, and anyone could get a bit too emotional and write some silly stuff, when they're going through something like that. And you're known for your loyalty; to Pat Buchanan, to President Reagan, and now President Bush. But this is too much :

..I think the criticisms are wholly legitimate. I think they are correct. And I think they miss the point...

Conservatives don't do twee, okay? Now get it together, 'cause your rep is on a knife-edge at the moment. Don't force us to turn on you like we (justifiably) turned on Arianna, okay, babe?

27 posted on 05/17/2002 6:01:31 AM PDT by Byron_the_Aussie
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To: Tauzero
...I think she did quite well... in light of her topic...

Anyone ever tell you you got a real mean streak, Tauzero? :)

28 posted on 05/17/2002 6:03:18 AM PDT by Byron_the_Aussie
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To: Pokey78
And FDR won his war, clear and clean. Mr. Bush will have to do that too or history, and the people, will not be so forgiving.

I guess the point here is that one must be a hard leftist to win a war. I couldn't disagree more.

29 posted on 05/17/2002 6:11:54 AM PDT by Moonman62
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To: Pokey78
So, in the interest of political maneuvering and reelection prospects, it's ok to:

- Sign a direct unconstitutional assault on the First Amendment
- Prop up a failing steel industry with confiscated tax dollars
- Prop up farmers who can't figure out how to do their damn jobs efficiently with confiscated tax dollars
- Back off on any effort to even slightly relieve taxpayers of their burden
- Create an even more-rapidly expanding Big Stupid Government

I'm done with Bush the Wimp II; Noonan's rationalizations are just lame attempts to prop up political parasites.

30 posted on 05/17/2002 6:52:25 AM PDT by Hank Rearden
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To: CWRWinger
hahahaha
31 posted on 05/17/2002 7:02:30 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Jeff Chandler
I agree. I don't know what has happened to this terribly intelligent woman lately. Maybe I over estimated her. She's an incredibly talented wordsmith. Maybe that's as far as it goes.

------------------------

She can be twisted though vanity and desperation to believe she is dead wrong. Like many other people she sees what she wants to see and moves heaven and earth in her personal commitment to see it. She also can be bought. She wants to become an "in" figure in this administration.

Back in the age of the big woods Rush Limbaugh was extremely critical of Bush Senior. Bush flattered Rush by having him stay overnight in the White House. Rush came back high as a kite and begain contradicting everything he had been saying for a year.

32 posted on 05/17/2002 8:10:50 AM PDT by RLK
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To: Pokey78
Bumped and hard-copied for reading on the bus!
33 posted on 05/17/2002 11:03:33 AM PDT by stanz
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To: Pokey78
ALL THE FREE REPUBLIC BUSH BASHERS NEED TO READ THIS ARTICLE AND LEARN!!! WE ARE IN A FREAKING WAR AGAINST BOTH THE TERRORISTS AND THE LIBERALS!!!

I am personally going to start refering to Bush Bashers in the same way as I refer to whining, crying, petty, selfish little liberals....AS AMERICA HATERS!!!

34 posted on 05/17/2002 12:17:30 PM PDT by Johnny Shear
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To: MissAmericanPie
I feel sorry for you if you go out and fish and vote for a less deserving candidate. Mr. Bush has done very well on the war and he needs to get the support of the senate and the house. It is sad that you have already made up your mind about who to vote against. It is sad b/c votes like yours will put my life and the life of my children at stake b/c we are in a big fight for our freedom and for the way of life we have. But instead you would prefer CFR to have been vetoed, farm bill to be vetoed and for the president to give the democrats issues to hit him with. You should be shouting at the top of your voice regardig the thrashing by the democrats and the intimation that the president deliberately held back responding to terrorist threats. Go figure people like you who abandon ship. The republican party is a family who believes in certain values. The president has a plan and it is to win the war. It is up to the family to bond together and be unified in supporting him.
35 posted on 05/17/2002 6:05:29 PM PDT by olliemb
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To: drjimmy
If it's all about the polling (and I don't think that it is), then she should be comparing Bush to Clinton, not FDR

If she compared Bush to Clinton, then there wouldnt be more than a paragraph. Clinton never tried to destroy Alqueda or UBL after the embassy attacks (2), Cole attack and the WTC attack. Speculation is that Oklahoma was also part of the UBL doings. There were so many terrorist attacks during Clinton's time but NO WAR was ever declared. Clinton pales in comparison to Bush.

36 posted on 05/17/2002 6:15:02 PM PDT by olliemb
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To: olliemb
Hey, I stood on streets rallying during the election fraud, I held my nose and voted for Bush. I spent a couple of weekends at it. He rewarded the faithful with a trip to Mexico, hours after he took his hand off the bible swearing to uphold the constitution, wrapped V Fox in a bear hug and began his attempt to dissolve our borders. Breaking his oath within hours of taking it. Slapping loyal voters in the face in favor of "minorities" that did not and will never vote for him. Sneering at our laws regarding illegals as if they were of no consequence. Reserving his "compassion" for everyone but legitimate citizens.

He refused to allow investigations of Clinton to go forward.

He showed the quality of his "compassion" for his countrymen, on the morning of 9-11 by refusing to allow the FBI to continue to hold the personal jet of the Saudi Royal family for questioning, and allowed them to wing their way out of the reach of American justice for their part in 9-11. The only plane allowed in the air that dark day.

He again showed his quality of "compassion" for his countrymen on the eve of 9-11, by coddling the heads of terrorist charity fronts on national tv, calling on our compassion and understanding.

And who can forget the Rahmadan festivities at the "Peoples House" while calling Christmas, "The Holiday Season". People's House? Homeland Defense? What's with the communist name tags on everything? The danged place is called the White House, this isn't der homeland, it's the NATION. He should try to remember that in his Spanish speeches while saying "When a man can make 50 an hour in Michigan, and 5 bucks at home in Mexico, he's going to come" (big wink and smile).

Now he has signed CFR, Stem Cell Research, Steel Tariffs, a huge pork barrel Farm Bill, and worse, twice now has tried to sneak 245i past frightened Americans.

I don't think he's doing such a hot job on the war on terrorism either. He's been all over the board on it. If voting for him is your plan to "save the lives of yourself and your children", I have sad news, the Nation may not survive till 2004 if we are subjected to anymore of his brand of compassion.

I am a member of no family but my own. I am united only with like minded individuals with fire in their belly. Maybe it will ease your mind that I am not a member of the Republican family. I am a registered independent who votes for conservatives only. I'll write in my candidate, Tancredo.

37 posted on 05/17/2002 7:03:34 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: joeyman
your post #6 is excellent
38 posted on 05/17/2002 10:32:58 PM PDT by palo verde
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To: Pokey78
Hi Pokey, thanks for the ping
I just found it now, and read the article
I find the article fascinating
she raises so many good points
and has interesting things to say
The new Dem charges against President Bush are insane, and part of their overall ''get Bush'' strategy
I hope GOP panelists on TV learn to shrug them off with wit and candor
they are slanderous lies unworthy of responses (which only energize them)
Love, Palo
39 posted on 05/17/2002 10:40:15 PM PDT by palo verde
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To: gortklattu
hi gort
very interesting post (22)
love, palo
40 posted on 05/17/2002 10:45:18 PM PDT by palo verde
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To: Wphile
Hi Wphile
your post # 9 is very interesting
I understand what you are saying and I agree with you
love, Palo
41 posted on 05/17/2002 10:48:57 PM PDT by palo verde
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To: BeAChooser
excellent post BeAChooser, I agree with you
love, Palo
42 posted on 05/17/2002 10:51:07 PM PDT by palo verde
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To: RLK
excellent post RLK, I agree with you
love, Palo
43 posted on 05/17/2002 10:53:04 PM PDT by palo verde
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To: RLK
I am referring to your post ridiculing her assertion that the war on terrorism
equates with WWII
did she actually say that? can she actually believe that?
at first I thought by win the war, she meant the midterm elections
then it seemed she meant war on terrorism
love, palo
44 posted on 05/17/2002 11:05:28 PM PDT by palo verde
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To: palo verde
By her picture I would judge her to be quite young. Without having lived through WWII it's defficult to know what war is. I can remember air raid drills and blackouts in Iowa diring WWII. It sounds funny now. During that period ine could stand in the American beach and watch explosions anf fires on the ocean from torpedoed ships. I've been out on some of those ships as a diver. There are hundreds of them in long trails on the East coast. If Hitler had not aborted the project he would have bombed New York City.
45 posted on 05/17/2002 11:21:15 PM PDT by RLK
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To: palo verde
The other thing Noonan has no conception of is the economic condition during the '30s when close to 1/4 of the people were out of work and the banking system had collapsed..
46 posted on 05/17/2002 11:30:13 PM PDT by RLK
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To: RLK
Hi RLK
thank you for your interesting post
I didn't know that
I was born in an apt in Manhattan with black-out shades
No one explained to me what they were for, I just assumed it was normal to have two sets of shades, and one was called blackout shades
and we were all issued dog tags when we started school

Both the War and the Depression seemed to have been TOTAL events
The Depression shaped everyone of my dad's decisions for me and my kid brother's future till we left home
I remember when my brother dropped out of college, my dad said he has to go back and get his degree so he can work for Civil Service, ''When the Depression came those who worked for the government kept their job.''

I'm guessing Peggy is around same age as me
She's quite a pretty girl (I've seen her on tv) with a fetching manner.
Altho you are right, the only explanation for her lack of awareness, would be if she was born so far away from those two events, that she couldn't estimate their effect.
Love, Palo
47 posted on 05/18/2002 7:24:43 AM PDT by palo verde
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To: RLK
when I got interested in spirituality, I bought all the books by Edgar Cayce, a psychic
which had transcripts of all his sessions where people asked him questions
the one from 1931 was vivid for me
every single person wanted to know when the Depression would end
every question was about the Depression
I was struck by how it was an experience of fear
Love, Palo

I've always thanked God that billclinton arrived during time of abundance
Adolph Hitler manipulated German citizens' fear to get their allegiance
billclinton planned on getting our allegiance, but failed (thank God)
48 posted on 05/18/2002 7:35:41 AM PDT by palo verde
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To: Johnny Shear;joeyman
LEARN!!! WE ARE IN A . . . WAR AGAINST BOTH THE TERRORISTS AND THE LIBERALS!

The only weakness in this article is that FDR went to war against three nations, Bush is fighting against terrorists. That is like fighting a war on poverty or on drugs; how we doing on those wars anyhow?

Why are Democratic operatives more effective? Because they see politics as total war. When you see yourself as a captain in a great unending struggle you not only fight harder, you rationalize fighting meaner. Why are Republican operatives less effective? Most of them don't believe politics is total war. It's only about government, it's not as big and important as life. If they thought it were that big they'd fight as if it were total war, but they wouldn't be Republicans; they'd be people who think government is everything.

If a GOP operative . . . attempts to be as crude and manipulative as a Paul Begala, and actually succeeds, the press will not say he is a worthy opponent. The press will paint him as dark-jowled and Nixonian, a hater, a hammer. The press doesn't like rude Republicans.

Noonan says too much, and not enough, about relations between Republicans and the press. Journalists, like all entertainers, like a simple black-and-white meladrama. Democrats--whether politicians or trial lawyers or unionists or black militants--give journalists exactly that.

Republicans, not only the rank and file but the more prosperous as well, see themselves as promoting the general welfare by the mundane act of doing their jobs and being tolerant of each other in our private and institutional capacities. In other words, Republicans are boring. To journalists as with all entertainers, being boring is the unforgivable sin.

The miracle is not, then, that journalism is de facto a part of the Democratic Party. The amazing thing is that with the journalistic propaganda wind squarely at its back the Democrats do not always win every election.
So yes, we are at war with liberals. But no, we are not "at war with terrorism." The very fact that "terrorism" is not a nation would tell you that we are not "at war." This is Cold War II. And just as Cold War I would have been a relative cakewalk without a fifth-column to contend with, just so does liberalism--socialism, really--constitute the main problem today. For without it, our Assassin Sect enemies would despair and turn to other pursuits.
49 posted on 05/18/2002 7:39:31 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: joeyman
Bush is fighting against terrorists. That is like fighting a war on poverty or on drugs

Perceptive post, I agree with you

I still don't know who hired the arab fanatics to carry out 9/11
I've heard international gangsters were responsible
opium production had been stopped, as a result of the war, it is now a bumper crop
My friend whose brother works high up for Dick Cheney told me a serious attempt was made during 9/11 to get both Bush and Cheney, but this has been hushed up
I've never believed Bin Laden was responsible
When billclinton was prez, because he is a gangster, he used office of presidency of USA to further gangster interests
it's quite a bonanza for gangsters to have prez of usa working for their interests
they may have been frustrated when President Bush took office
Whether they were responsible for 9/ll I don't know, but they have made out like a bandit with the bumper opium crop
Love, Palo
50 posted on 05/18/2002 7:52:37 AM PDT by palo verde
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