Increased Anti-semitism In Europe Noticaeble In The Netherlands At Soccermatch

1 posted on 04/21/2002 10:26:01 AM PDT by knighthawk

To: dennisw; TopQuark; Alouette; OKCSubmariner; veronica; weikel; EU=4th Reich; BrooklynGOP...

These people make me ill

If people want on or off this list, please let me know.

2 posted on 04/21/2002 10:27:31 AM PDT by knighthawk

between Ajax (which used to be a Jewish soccer club) versus FC Utrecht

This I didn't know. Anyone know how long ago was it that Ajax was 'a Jewish soccer club'? Does that mean it was owned by Jews, or that its players were Jews, or something else? Isn't it one of the 'major' clubs in Holland?

3 posted on 04/21/2002 10:35:46 AM PDT by Mike Fieschko

The swastikas carried by Moroccan protesters were not aimed at the people of Israel, he said, but were a symbol of the 'solidarity with the Palestinians'.

So if pro Israel supporters carry signs of Mohammed in bed with a donkey as a way of showing support for Israelis, then the Imam would understand?

4 posted on 04/21/2002 10:41:58 AM PDT by BrooklynGOP

"Hamas, Hamas, all Jews need to be gassed".

My, my the country that hid Anne Frank and produced Corrie Tenboom. This is so sad that 60 years ago the Dutch were so brave in their support of Jews. Tolerance has developed into hatred because evil cannot be confronted.

5 posted on 04/21/2002 10:49:21 AM PDT by BeAllYouCanBe

I doubt they would understand, since to them anything a Muslim does is righteous and true, whether he is killing infidels by flying an airplane into a building, or chopping off the heads of Christian missionaries.

It might be time for the Jews in Europe to think about leaving for Israel or the US. I think something bad is coming, and the governments of Europe are either going to permit it or help it happen.

7 posted on 04/21/2002 10:51:00 AM PDT by Gladwin

More bad news from Europe as Muslims move in and start their agitations.

8 posted on 04/21/2002 10:52:50 AM PDT by dennisw

if Dutch society is so rotten why do the Muslims live there

The success of Western societies only makes Muslims hate the West even more. This is especially true when they are "forced" to live in the West.

9 posted on 04/21/2002 10:53:21 AM PDT by Gladwin

Mad Cow Disease and mental illness sweeps the to EU and UN.

These photos show Annan and his proterrorist EU toadies
lining up to drink sputum from the mouth of Arafat.

No wonder these idiots did not protect their people from Mad Cow disease and other diseases of Hate.

11 posted on 04/21/2002 11:00:38 AM PDT by Diogenesis

Did the mayor Cohen remember to order that the police run a flexible pipe from the buses exhausts into the cabin so that these utrecht trash boys could themselves come to know what gassing is about?

12 posted on 04/21/2002 11:15:35 AM PDT by bvw

To: Mike Fieschko

Anyone know how long ago was it that Ajax was 'a Jewish soccer club'? Does that mean it was owned by Jews, or that its players were Jews, or something else? Isn't it one of the 'major' clubs in Holland?

I can't help you with the club's Jewish history, but they are the major club in the Dutch League. Kind of like what Manchester United is to the English Premiership.

13 posted on 04/21/2002 11:19:59 AM PDT by July 4th

To: Mike Fieschko

Wait...here's a good article. It appears that the anti-Jewish chant is nothing new.

Soccer Tribalism
David Winner
The Jersualem Report - 1998

The fans of a top Dutch soccer club have chosen an unlikely way to support their team

The fans beat their drums and yell their battle cry: "Joden! Joden! Wij zijn super-Joden" - "Jews! Jews! We are super-Jews!" The totem of their faith is the Star of David. They tattoo it on their arms, their chests, sometimes even their shaved skulls. They wear the star on earrings and necklaces, emblazon it on shirts and baseball caps, daub it as graffiti on walls, tram stops and toilet doors.

Welcome to the weirdest, least kosher Hebrew tribe ever - the hardcore supporters of Ajax (pronounced Eye-Yacks), the perennial Dutch soccer champions, none of whom is in fact Jewish.

The Amsterdam club's 3,500 "F-Side" fans, notorious for their occasionally violent behavior, wave Israeli flags as a sign of support for a team which has had no Jewish players for years. As Ajax's chairman Michael van Praag is fond of saying: "Ajax is not a Jewish club and these fans are about as Jewish as I am Chinese." Van Praag's father was Jewish, but there is no connection between this fact and his position in the club.

Yet because of pre-war associations Ajax had many Jewish fans and its stadium was near Amsterdam's Jewish district - the club has for years been widely assumed to be Jewish. Even after the Holocaust, in which 106,000 Dutch Jews were killed, Amsterdam has a somewhat Jewish soul. The city's slang, for instance, is laced with Yiddish, like shlemiel and mazel. The city's nickname, Mokum, is Yiddish for "place." Most of Holland's 30,000 Jews (there are also some 10,000 Israelis) live in suburbs south of the city.

Ajax's Jewish connection isn't all fun. Rival fans, envious of the club's swaggering, cerebral style, success and popularity, have adopted a string of vile counter-chants. "Hamas, Hamas - Jews to the gas" is a regular cry among the fans of Feyenoord, the club's bitter rivals from Rotterdam. So is hissing in unison of a "joke" about gas chambers - and shouting "Trains for Auschwitz leave in five minutes." Other chants feature stereotypes like mean Jews with big noses.

Hadassa Hirschfeld of the Center for Information and Documentation about Israel, a pro-Israel lobby in The Hague that also keeps track of communal affairs in Holland, considers the trend "dangerous," because it weakens the taboo against anti-Semitism. But the authorities view the name-calling as a symptom of childish soccer tribalism rather than anti-Jewish racism and police no longer bother to prosecute.

"Ronald," an editor of The Ajax Star, the F-Side fan magazine that uses the Magen David as its logo, explains how the F-Siders (named after the area where they used to stand in Ajax's old stadium) began calling themselves Jews: "Out-of-towners used to call us 'Jews' as an insult. In the early 80s, we decided to take over the insult word as our own and started carrying Israeli flags. Every year, more fans take the star for their own symbol. But it doesn't mean anything to us. We have no relation to real Jews or feeling about Israel or anything like that.

"We like to provoke a little bit with this symbol. Dutch fans are not very friendly to one another and Ajax is one of the most hated clubs," Ronald continues. "When you wear the star, everybody gets mad."

Some F-Side members have been involved in organized battles with rival fans involving baseball bats and knives. "Ronald" refuses to identify himself because he fears he'd lose his job as a computer systems developer with a large Amsterdam bank if his employers knew he was an F-Sider.

Many Dutch Jews, especially older ones, are appalled by the fans' antics.

Bennie Muller, 60, one of Ajax's handful of former Jewish players, who played alongside the great Johan Cruyff in the 60s and now runs a cigar shop near the Amsterdam Central Station, says: "Sometimes when I'm sitting in the stadium and I hear those crazy people shouting 'We are super-Jews' and 'Jews are champions,' it's so bad that I just walk off and go home," he says.

About 200 members of Muller's extended family died in the Holocaust and he vividly remembers the day his mother was taken away. "I had two brothers and two sisters. All of us children were crying. The German said, 'Oh, let's leave them,' but the Dutch Nazis said no. My mother had 11 brothers and sisters." His mother survived, but her relatives were killed.

"Older people know what happened in the war. But these fans, they don't know. I wish they would stop, but they won't. I talk a lot with Israelis here. They all seem to like it. They laugh about it. But for the Jewish people in Amsterdam it's so disgusting it's unbelievable," says Muller.

Younger Jews take a more relaxed view. Says Yves Gijrath, 31-year-old publisher of the hip new magazine Jewish Journal, and a non-F-Side Ajax fan: "It's strange when they sing 'Jews, Jews.' It starts with a small group, but at some stage the whole stadium is singing with them. When other fans insult us, it's not because they hate Jews, but because they hate Ajax."

"I don't dislike the F-Side," says 21-year-old Danny Jacobs, an ardent Ajax supporter and Orthodox Jew who wears a yarmulke in the stadium. "But if you ask the average Dutchman about the blue-and-white flag with a star on it, he thinks it's an Ajax flag, not an Israeli one."

14 posted on 04/21/2002 11:24:52 AM PDT by July 4th

"Hamas, Hamas, all Jews need to be gassed". I never thought that the majority of Dutch, with so deeply rooted notions of liberty and equality, with the history of compassion, would allow a bunch of thugs go so far. This buch is not very small ither --- 670 people.

I know that this is not a norm, that it is an aberration in the Dutch history, but the gravity of this aberration is really disturbing.

Goodness will prevail, but we do not know at what cost: how many Christian and Jewish people we will have to burry before Europe and America fully wake up.

As always, thank you very much for your post and keeping us all informed about the events in The Netherlands and Europe.

17 posted on 04/21/2002 11:42:23 AM PDT by TopQuark

Only about a month ago FR was infested by various defenders of the virtues of European "Civilization" (sic). Wonder where they all slunk off to. Der Vaterland most likely.

18 posted on 04/21/2002 11:45:31 AM PDT by hinckley buzzard

Ever notice that all the anti semitism is W. Europe (which is still trying to be linked to conservatives) is really started and perpetrated by Islamics? Notice...very few Islamics in E. Europe...very little anti-semitism.

19 posted on 04/21/2002 12:10:35 PM PDT by Stavka2

To: BeAllYouCanBe; besieged

Tolerance has developed into hatred because evil cannot be confronted. Well said.

I think what you said is precisely the essence of the Helsiki syndrom: the identification with and justifying of the cause of the kidnapping on the part of the victim.

This term is applied, as you know, to the individual cases of kidnapping. What we witness, however, is this syndrom on a social, rather than personal, level.

It was and is foolish to think that the West has won the Cold war; rather, it has ended in mutual destruction. Whereas the Soviet Block and Union have ceased to exist as entities, the West, has been entirely transformed away from its foundations. The Marxist thinking in terms of groups rather than individuals has prevailed and produced the "vicitimization view" of the world, formalized recently as multiculturalism.

Thus, faced with the prolonged attack from the Marxist ideology since 1840s, the West started to identify with its "kidnapper." As in the orthodox application of the Helsinki syndrom, the duration of time is essential: the change from fear and anger to support of the attackers requires considerable time. Two elements, in fact, are neded to to produce the sysndrom: a reasonably long period of kidnapping, and the constant, indoctrinating interaction between the offender and his victim. As their result, the victim begins first to put a human face on the kidnapper; then understands, while disagreeing with them, the reasons for his actions; and, finally, takes his position.

Sound familiar? Where do you think the "humanization" of Arafat come from? Why it is that all the suffering of the Palestinians has a human face, feelings, and emotions? Where in the media are similarly tearful funerals of the Jewish victims?

Heer at home, too, women suffer but not men. From anecdotal portrayal of men as unable to feel to the social and governmental emphasis on the breast cancer at the expense of prostate cancer, although both kill comparable number of people. In complete similarity, too, there is a humanization of the suffering from injustice by a black person but not white in the same cercumstances.

Underneath all of this is the essentially Marxist idea of thinking in terms of groups rather than individuals, and bringing justice to the underprivileged groups, again, rather than individuals.

And you are abolutely correct, sir/madam, when you say that when evil cannot be confronted, a shift in judgement invariably occurs. A kindap victim, out of helplessness, takes the position of the attacker. The West has been kidnapped by Marxism and unable, for for a long time, to confront it due to the military might of the Soviet Union. It has developed the Helsinki syndrom, and there are only a few of us left who can see that we are afflicted.

20 posted on 04/21/2002 12:11:18 PM PDT by TopQuark

21 posted on 04/21/2002 12:21:32 PM PDT by Dark Wing

They should have 'accidentally' diverted them to Germany, where posession of pro-Nazi propaganda is a felony offence.

23 posted on 04/21/2002 1:04:45 PM PDT by Dakmar

All the more reason to value our American constitution, and keep the EU on the other side of the drink.

Keep your guns safe and at hand!

24 posted on 04/21/2002 1:35:32 PM PDT by Ukiapah Heep

To: Prodigal Daughter

Also look at the links in the comment section.

25 posted on 04/21/2002 4:14:22 PM PDT by knighthawk

To: Mike Fieschko

Ajax History

In 1941 the Germans prohibited Jews to be members of mixed sports clubs, which included Ajax. Although the club had the reputation of being a Jewish club even before the war, in reality this applied mainly to the spectators who often came from the predominantly Jewish class of theself-employed. The number of Jewish players at Ajax has never in fact been any higher than that of other Amsterdam clubs.

26 posted on 04/21/2002 4:24:52 PM PDT by knighthawk

Did you know that Wim Kok, our ex-prime minister, also kissed Arafat when he visited Holland?

27 posted on 04/21/2002 4:33:05 PM PDT by knighthawk

I translated two pages of the NOS Teletext that appeared today. I never saw that story and I never heard those lines before. I don't know aynthing about soccer, so it's new to me too. I knew that there was an anti-Jew attitude of other clubs towards Ajax, but that it was this bad already for years, I didn't know.

28 posted on 04/21/2002 4:39:12 PM PDT by knighthawk

To: BeAllYouCanBe

This is so sad that 60 years ago the Dutch were so brave in their support of Jews. Tolerance has developed into hatred because evil cannot be confronted.

No, evil cannot be confronted. This is the country that has legalized euthanasia of children up to 15 years old, if parents and doctors deem these children's lives unworthy of living. No, the Dutch have lost their moral compass altogether.

29 posted on 04/21/2002 4:39:41 PM PDT by Inkie

Euros feel bad for the Palestinians because they have so much in common. Mainly, they are both always LOSERS! Israel and America are always winners!! LOL!

30 posted on 04/21/2002 4:58:18 PM PDT by MoJo2001

This is sounding more and more serious. Something needs to be done immediately. I suggest all european TV stations begin running every WWII movie they can get their hands on in order to remind people how ugly this can turn out.

31 posted on 04/21/2002 6:59:00 PM PDT by McGavin999

Its amazing how history repeats itself.We are supposed to learn from the past,and whats happening in Europe is pretty much the same thing that was happening in the thirties. Just the governments have changed.The Jews in Europe are being targeted again,this time by the followers of Allah.

It seems that Islamic agitation is always happening in non Islamic places. They are like a plague,slowly oozing their way West.The government of France,who has always sided with the Palestinians,will find themselves in the same boat as Marshal Petain; a puppet government whose strings are being pulled by an Imam or Mullah. Holland,the country that harbored the Family Frank,will be buliding Minarets and Mosques. It is amazing they are too leftist to see it,and to understand their leanings are actually being used against them. I hope the people over there wake up soon.

33 posted on 04/21/2002 11:38:57 PM PDT by cardinal4

They need to watch more Discovery Channel. And visit some museums on the Holocaust. The pictures of the dead and survivors are too sad for words.

Europeans don't care for what happens to other people, as long as they are not targeted themselves.

It took more than 405.000 American lives to liberate them from the evil they let grow amongst themselves.

34 posted on 04/22/2002 1:52:59 AM PDT by knighthawk

To: 2witness; ALL

35 posted on 04/22/2002 4:05:46 AM PDT by knighthawk

As for the anti-Semitism displayed daily in Europe these days – what better way to soothe the guilt of the holocaust than to convince one self that the trouble making Jews brought it on themselves. It’s funny how the irony is lost on liberal leftists and the media, when we see idiots parading down the streets of European capitals with the Israeli flag depicted as the swastika.

37 posted on 04/22/2002 6:31:28 AM PDT by Colosis

So if pro Israel supporters carry signs of Mohammed in bed with a donkey as a way of showing support for Israelis, then the Imam would understand?

This and the obnoxious behaviour mentioned in the article would be perfectly with within the "norms" of European soccer fans. When you see them on the street of an European city, run for cover! (Unless you are doing the comparative study of intensive care units).

38 posted on 04/22/2002 6:36:05 AM PDT by A. Pole

To: hinckley buzzard

Hey buzzard lover, I am an admirer of European Civilization, and I have not moved to "vaterland". Your stupidity is shown by your hatred of all things German. Germans have buzzards, also.

39 posted on 04/22/2002 6:45:05 AM PDT by Blake#1

Haselhoef got a gulf of protest last year in November for his anti-homosexual remarks.

Ironically, Arafat himself is a homo.

41 posted on 04/22/2002 6:57:34 AM PDT by PJ-Comix

Actually their society is being destroyed by Muslim immigration but that begs the question- if Dutch society is so rotten why do the Muslims live there? Could it be that there own societies are so threadbare they can't even support their population. That their culture is responsible for this poverty and that their culture is derived from their religion and thus their faith is a failure.

You cannot blame the muslems for the dutch immagration policy that existed before they came. Thats like saying that the mexicans are to blame because we let them in the door.

42 posted on 04/22/2002 6:58:22 AM PDT by Libertarian_4_eva

43 posted on 04/22/2002 7:16:33 AM PDT by VOA

To: knighthawk; 2sheep; Thinkin' Gal; Nix2

Sorry to get here so late. Excellent post as usual! Stay safe.

45 posted on 04/29/2002 2:35:20 PM PDT by Prodigal Daughter

To: Prodigal Daughter

Thank you. If you want I could ping you for such stuff.

46 posted on 04/29/2002 2:41:43 PM PDT by knighthawk

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