Posted on 10/17/2019 6:14:48 AM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
“The cop isn’t a murderer just because he failed to yell “police” in the heat of the moment”
First, you yell “Police!” BEFORE you prowl around someone’s yard. Maybe run the siren. If you don’t, you should EXPECT to see an armed person in the house looking out at you! Anyone who prowls around MY back yard at 2:30 AM can expect to find me with gun in hand.
Second, “murder” does not require premeditation. It varies by state and Texas is one that has no second degree murder. Second degree murder is normally killing someone intentionally - which you do if you aim before you shoot - and doing so without justification.
In Texas, “You commit murder when you intentionally and knowingly take someone else’s life, or when you intend to commit an act that is clearly extremely dangerous to human life and in effect, causes death to another person. Murder is usually a felony of the first degree.”
https://www.zenlawfirm.com/law-blog/2018/february/4-types-of-criminal-homicide-in-texas/
My understanding is murder involves intentionally killing someone when there was no justification for doing so. Doing something dangerous, provoking a response from another person, and then killing that person “because I felt threatened” is still murder. The cop provoked the other person into having a gun, and then killed them because they did. That is murder.
Not a lawyer. FWIW.
We showed up on a call where a drunk and stoned black woman wouldn't stop bothering her neighbors. She was in the neighbor's apartment and refused to leave. My crew and I finally got her calmed down and out of the neighbor's apartment and were walking her back to her place to sleep it off when she went berserk again. She punched me in the eye and bit one of my crew members.
So I called our communications center on the radio and told them we were going to need police assistance. They didn't want to leave the donut shop, so after ten minutes our communicators called back and asked why we needed them. I replied that she had punched me in the eye for no reason and that we couldn't get her to stay settled down.
A couple cops finally showed up by the time our “patient” started behaving herself again. They were giving me a ration of crap and not keeping an eye on her, when the black lady went full on crazy and started attacking them. She got away and locked herself in her own apartment. About half a dozen more police cars showed up almost instantaneously and it took half a dozen police to wrestle her into the back of one of their cars.
After that it was all comedy for us. They finally broke her door down and it took six of them to wrestle her into the back of one of their cars. But then they decided that she needed an ambulance to take her to the hospital to make sure there was nothing seriously wrong with her before locking her up. It was there way of giving us back the hot potato. So we had to get her back out of the police car, and our protocol doesn't allow us to transport people with handcuffs on. So we had to strap her to a gurney and transport her, fortunately the paramedics were given permission to give her something that took the fight out of her.
I tell all that because the whole time this whacked out woman was running around her apartment making all sorts of noise and screaming, the police had surrounded the place and had a bunch of guns out. Just one trigger happy cop and we all would have been on the national news for “murdering” an innocent black woman.
The cop PROVOKED the homeowner into picking up a gun. Then shot her for having one. That is not self-defense. That makes it a needless, intentional killing. What do YOU call a needless, intentional killing? An accident?
Oops! Shot my neighbor. Sucks but when I entered his home / backyard, he acted upset. I felt threatened. So I shot him!
Doesn’t work that way, as the woman cop already found out.
Sorry, I see I should have proof read better before posting, but you get the picture. Just typical pandemonium that could easily have resulted in someone getting shot by the police.
“As you know, the “target” was pointing a weapon at him.”
As we all know, the cop provoked the woman into picking up a gun. Then he shot her for having one. Do you want cops to be able to kill you if they wander around your backyard at night, unannounced, and you pick up a gun?
Generally speaking, we will never know all the facts. If decisions must be made, we will make them with incomplete information.
And many of the "facts" in this case keep changing.
FWPD made the right decision to fire this officer immediately based on what they knew. That has not changed with any new "facts".
The DA made the right decision to prosecute this ex-officer for a crime based on what came out in a preliminary investigation. That has not changed with any new "facts".
The Courts have yet to convict or sentence the shooter. The outcome might very well be determined by new "facts" revealed during the pre-trial investigations. We are supposed to have a cautious judicial system that is restrained from casual judgments. That is a good thing.
Based on what has been revealed to date, I would vote for a 2nd degree murder conviction within two minutes of jury deliberation. But I have been on a jury before and been surprised by testimony that reversed my original opinions.
I guess the real villain of the story is the guy who called the police. Got his neighbor killed.
> I would also add the need for situational awareness. Poor Auntie had none. <
I would certainly fault someone in a combat zone for not having situational awareness. But I don’t care how bad the neighborhood is. A person in their own home need not be on alert at all times. I guess they’d be safer if they were. But it’s not something that I would expect of anyone.
This lady was in her own home. And she behaved in a reasonable manner. Her culpability here is zero.
The next time you’re in your home at 2:30 am and you hear a noise and see someone outside your window are you going to assume it’s a police officer?
= = =
At night, I probably can see only darkness outside my window.
No idea of who or where or how many.
I am silhouetted to anyone viewing from outside.
Can I ‘hide’ or turn off the lights? Shine a light of my own? Turn on outside spotlights? Do I have time?
From all I know, there are no cops around.
If I pick up a gun - I may frighten a burglar.
If I am inside, and a burglar is outside, I would not expect him to shoot me through the window. He sees my gun, and leaves.
But after this, I am very concerned that showing a gun, visible from outside, will get me shot.
Your "facts" are not facts. You are wrong. The officer quit before he was fired.
That, or the 911 operators who did not relay it was a Welfare Check and not a Possible Burglary.
Clearly mistakes were made. By all parties. Including the Aunt.
I predict the cop will plead to Manslaughter. 10 year sentence.
I guess the real villain of the story is the guy who called the police.
= = =
Who was it who said, “See something, say something?”
You’ve been using “provoked” a lot in your posts. The cop provoked her to point a weapon in his face.
Yeah well. She won’t do that again, will she?
She lived next door to a Mosque FGS. She had all her doors and windows open in the middle of the night. That is not behaving in a reasonable manner. I seriously doubt she had any firearms training at all. For if she did, she would not have pointed it out the window at bad guy. Cop or burglar.
I saw an article yesterday that claimed the person inside the house pointed a gun at the officer. I don’t know if it’s true or not. Does anyone know if that really happened?
He was offered a choice ("Quit or be fired"). You can call that a resignation. Constructively that is a firing.
There was a police photograph showing a gun resting on a night stand. It would seem unlikely that the woman allegedly pointing a gun at an officer managed to put that gun on the nightstand after the officer shot and killed her.
The nephews' testimony on that gun simply cannot be trusted. Children are not reliable witnesses and their stories are easily manipulated by adults.
I guess they would like one to believe that there was a certain amount of time after he said that before he fired. Truth is it went like this:
"Put your hands up! Show me your (BANG) hands".
Buck fever...
It is apparent from everything that has been reported that the officer DID NOT identify himself as a police officer prior to discharging his weapon.
Would that not in and of itself constitute “negligence”?
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