Posted on 10/17/2019 6:14:48 AM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
Question: Two neighbors—a sister who lives on one side of the house who calls her brother who lives on the other side of the house (who calls the cops)—both think that there is something really wrong with the house. Why didn’t they call the house? Why didn’t they go over and knock on the door?
Sure, at 10 am (MORNING). This was at 2:30 am at night. Big difference.
Perhaps he shot because a handgun was pointed at him? That’s kind of what the 8 year old nephew told the cops.
Hope you never piss off a lib and they SWAT you.
What does race have to do with it? Racist much? I know dindu’s are worthless wastes of skin but this was a fine black woman playing video games with young relatives. A fine upstanding member of society.
> but the police officer was likely negligent and not criminally culpable <
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on that one. To my way of thinking, “negligent” implies that a minor error was made - an error that anyone could have made. No way do I see that here.
I cannot believe that the average cop would just fire into a window at an unknown person. But suppose that the person was holding something might be a gun? Well, in the dark it could just as well be a TV remote, or a cell phone. We are talking about a house here, not a Nazi pillbox.
One never knows how one would behave in a situation like this, unless it actually happens. Since I don’t know my target, I would hope that I would duck and take cover, then try to assess the situation. Again it’s someone’s house, not a a Nazi pillbox.
My major point has been WE DON’T KNOW ALL THE FACTS. And in less than 24 hours when I was doing all the “posting” yesterday, more facts have come out FAVORABLE to the cop:
1) Fact: The 8 year old nephew told police that the victim was pointing a handgun at the window where the cop fired the shot.
2) Fact: The cops were NOT instructed to do a “welfare check”; they were advised that this was a possible burglary in progress; (Since there were probably 20 FREEPERS that were harping on this issue, perhaps now they will reconsider?);
3) Fact: Now we know that TWO neighbors thought that the house had been burglarized or other foul play was afoot, as the 311 caller noted that his sister/other neighbor had awakened him to alert him to her suspicions;
4) Fact: The house had air-conditioning, as you can see the Carrier A/C unit in the body cam video (Again, a number of FREEPERS cited the heat in the South as to why all the doors would be open at 2:30 am).
I am not a cop, and have never been a cop. I have no cops in my family. But I do believe in FAIRNESS and the Rule of Law. I have not blamed the deceased, but I am not prepared to label a rookie cop a murderer without proper proof.
I heard the kid said she had a gun I never heard that he said she pointed it at the cop.
” I’m withholding judgment, but I wish the cop-haters would do the same.”
Thank you. So many Freepers are espousing their bias against law enforcement without any idea of police tactics, training and strategy (especially about staying alive). They do watch police shows on TV though.
So you are conceding the fact that it was a bad shoot and your only question is whether the officer has criminal liability, is that correct?
“Negligence” simply means you breached a standard of care. In this case, the standard of care would be as follows: Would a reasonable police officer under the same set of circumstances have acted the way this officer acted? In most states the next level up the chain is “gross negligence,” which is non-criminal but allows for punitive damages to be assessed. Finally, we get to criminal standards which require “extreme recklessness”—at a minimum—or “men rea”—i.e., “a guilty mind”—for more serious crimes like murder. States vary as to crimes and standards, but this is roughly what we are dealing with.
Was the homeowner not terrified when at 2:30 am she heard a noise outside, saw someone at her window, heard someone yell and before she had time to recognize it was a police officer and react to his command the police officer opened fire? Did the homeowner, fearing for her life, not have the right to defender herself in her own home against an unknown threat?
I'm not a cop-hater. I see how police officers are under attack from people with anti-cop political agendas. I also understand police have to deal with bad guys and they can become hyper-vigilant and mistakes can happen.
From what I see, the police made bad choices which put both the homeowner and the police officer in danger.
Its a “bad shoot” in the sense that an innocent person was killed. Just like its a bad shoot when our military kills our own personnel in friendly fire. The issue is whether a CRIME was committed by the police officer, in contradistinction to negligence or gross negligence. If it is true that the deceased pointed a handgun at the window where the cop fired from, it would not shock me if a jury said “not guilty.” Again, I keep cautioning everyone to wait for all the facts. BTW, as an aside, I watched the video again and it appears that the inside of the house was a complete disheveled mess, with items strewn everywhere. This may have been why the cops didn’t announce themselves, because they assumed the place had been burglarized and ransacked. We will find out soon enough.
You're in your home at 2:30 am, safe, minding your own business, and you hear a noise outside.
What is your first thought? It might be the police?
What is your first reaction regarding your own self-protection? Assume there's no threat or do you grab your gun to protect yourself?
Within seconds of hearing the noise and picking up your gun you see someone outside your window.
Again, what do you do? Assume it's the police and put your gun down?
Then you hear someone yell a command at you and before you can even react, assuming you heard the command clearly in the first place and recognize it's a police officer, the police officer starts shooting.
Most FRs recognize and defend the Castle Doctrine. That's what we have here.
The home owner heard a noise and reacted in her own self-defense to pick up her gun for self-protection.
I'm not accusing the officer of murder but his actions put both the homeowner and the police officers' lives in danger.
Other than an open door, what proof did the officer see that he believed a crime had been committed? Was there a trail of blood? Did they hear someone screaming for help?
The next time you're in your home at 2:30 am and you hear a noise and see someone outside your window are you going to assume it's a police officer?
Sounds like the lady complied to the instruction. Unfortunately for her, she had a gun in her hand.
The cop would need to don the gas mask prior to dispersing the agent. With the mask on, the cop loses a lot of the ability to sense surroundings.
As you know, the "target" was pointing a weapon at him. Only a "reckless idiot" WOULDN'T shoot.
I remember you. You're the apologist who kept posting yesterday. Here's the deal: a cop who comes to check on someone's well-being and ends up shooting the person is part of the problem and not part of the solution.
Here's another deal. We have no clear evidence the cops were on a welfare check. Too bad that info was not passed on to them. An innocent woman died. A tragic mistake.
> “Negligence” simply means you breached a standard of care. <
Interesting post there, and you do make some reasonable points. I however, am looking at this from a different angle. I’m applying the “average man” test. This is not something I made up, by the way. It’s rooted in English law.
Let’s say that a cop writes down the wrong house address when preparing for a raid. And then bad things happen. That cop has been negligent. He could be fired. And his city could be sued. But that error alone would not make him criminally culpable, in my opinion. Because anyone could write down a wrong address.
But I can’t believe that an “average man” would fire through a house window at an unknown target, especially if he knows that innocents could be in the house. So doing so would be beyond negligence, even beyond gross negligence. It would be a criminal act.
But of course a jury will decide. And at this point I wouldn’t place a big bet either way.
They can’t rob you if you’re dead.
Stops the robbery cold.
You make good and valid points about the homeowner.
I would also add the need for situational awareness. Poor Auntie had none. She’d have been better off without a hand gun. She should have known better than to leave all the doors and windows in her house open in a bad neighborhood. Should have known better than to rush into a dangerous situation.
“I’m not accusing the officer of murder but his actions put both the homeowner and the police officers’ lives in danger.”
So did hers.
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