Posted on 12/11/2017 1:02:58 PM PST by JP1201
The Shaver case is well beyond politics. There is nothing conservative, liberal or constitutional about an agent of the state killing an American without just cause. It is deeply wrong regardless of party or ideology. Bernie Sanders voters and the most ardent Trump supporters all should be united in outrage over the death of Daniel Shaver.
Maricopa County District Attorney Bill Montgomery got it right by charging Brailsford with second degree murder. The jury got it very wrong. Shaver should be alive, and his death must be taken as a call to action. Police departments should establish that a suspect always has the ability to show hands and lie down on the ground for arrest. Complicated law enforcement commands that require mobility and balance — under threat of execution — cannot be an acceptable standard.
When good faith efforts to respond to police commands can be met with a hail of bullets, we are all in jeopardy, and the work of all law enforcement officers becomes more difficult and dangerous.
(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...
My oldest son who's in a Criminal Justice / Law Enforcement program at a State University texted me about this today. One of his Law Enforcement professors brought this case up and they all saw the video. The Professor, a former FBI Bureau Chief in Boston called it a case of cold blooded murder himself today.
I personally can't watch the video. The audio of it was played on the radio today and I heard that poor guy crying and begging for his life before hearing the gunshots.
I wish I'd never heard that audio.
I'm a law enforcement kinda guy, I back the cops 1,000% however this one really has me questioning why in God's good name this shooting happened at all. This cop clearly got away with murder.
At least for now.
That cop looked like a young punk
“Its like the cops get away with one thing one year and then do something even more unimaginable the next”
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Police can lie, cheat, steal, and kill without consequence.
With Shaver my attitude is that the cops could have,and should have,handled the situation differently...*much* differently...even before the shots were fired.
But,to make a long story short,my attitude is (given the facts as I understand them) that while one,or both,of the cops could reasonably have been charged with some kind of negligence (gross negligence...lethal negligence) what happened there wasn't "murder" of any kind.The guy's movement could reasonably have been suspected to be a reach for a weapon.
The cops handled the matter foolishly even before the shots were fired.That fact was made worse by the dead guy being drunk at the time.
So,in South Carolina the cop deserved many years in the slammer...in this case they may well have deserved a few.But no more than a few.
Seemed pretty clear to me, Bucky, that the LEO was shrieking at the top of his lungs like a frightened little girl, making a perfectly manageable situation as bad as he possibly could.
But the important thing is that the LEO went home safely to his family that night. Whether anybody else did is irrelevant.
And I hope lawyers wind up owning his house, his vehicles, his bank accounts, his IRAs, etc.
That's exactly what I thought as I listened to the audio myself. Personally I could never have physically complied with some of the orders he was shouting out, especially the part about having one's legs crossed behind them while kneeling.
Someone like me would've been shot just for that! (I'm partially disabled, btw.)
The Oakland, Calif. train/bus/BART station shooting looked very bad too.
“The epitome is the Costco parking lot killing where two cops gave conflicting orders and the order that was obeyed got the fellow killed by the other cop”
Yup. The lesson there was just as a poster upthread mentioned:
Keep you hands in the air and don’t move. They really can’t make a case to shoot you if your arms are outstretched and you aren’t moving.
Make them disarm you. Keep you hands in sight and well clear of your weapon. You may get handled rough and get a little curb rash, but it’s much better than the alternative.
Bump
How you could find this man not guilty? I must be missing one helluva tall tale.
The officer did sound like an asshole and hindsight now reveals the guy was not armed but the known facts at the instead of decision to shoot were different.
The guy was repeatedly told to keep his hands in view.
But at 3:52 he reached behind his back with both hands and was screamed at.
He then at 4:26 he again reached behind his back with his right hand and was shot as he quickly brought that hand forward.
The cop did not have the benefit of hindsight and many officers have been shot and killed for not shooting fast enough when a guy reached for something that did turn out to be a weapon.
Not the best outcome but an understandable outcome for those who don’t hate cops.
For me as well. The cop was a murdering psychopath, there is no other explanation.
I could see if we just got a blip of the shooting, but the way he treated both of them before speaks volumes of the kind of pathetic POS he is.
You honestly think that is all there is to this, you are blind or so pro-cop they could do nothing wrong in your eyes.
Practice this: cross your legs and knee walk, doesn’t happen...one can’t even crawl in this position.
His “wife,” which she was not...didn’t comply if you watch closely...she uncrossed her legs.
There is a longer version of the video available on youtube. I am tired of posting...go find it yourself. These cops messed up from the time they received the call.
Truly they did. Lots and lots of mistakes made to heighten the officers adrenaline long before Daniel Shaver even made it into the hallway. They didn’t even have a rap sheet, sufficient ammo (officer had to borrow some), room key, understand the noise dampening in the hallway, had to call them from the frontdesk to come out into th hallway where it is very clear both of them are more than startled, had to go back to the front desk to get the keycard....right...these cops had themselves all under control. Baugh!!!
He got off and was found not guilty
Remember the Miami one last year, guy was laying on the ground, face up, hands up, wasn’t even the “problem” person (that was his client and autistic guy playing with a toy firetruck), got shot anyway. Luckily for him it was non-fatal. We’ve got a breed of cop in this country that are just wound too tight. Probably not aided by a civilian population that has decided guns are the most terrifying thing on the planet and call the cops any time they think anybody might maybe have a gun.
I have to ask...why did the deceased move his hand toward the back of his waistband when he was explicitly directed to NOT do that? We’ll never know.
” reached for something that did turn out to be a weapon.”
But at least something should be in the hand yes?
Otherwise, with your reasoning, if a cop approaches and your hands are not in view, when he asks you to show them, when you do, since there could be a gun in it, it would justify shooting.
An impossible condition to meet.
Outrageous cop behavior DOES happen.
It’s just not in EVERY case, as Colin Kaepernick would have you believe.
But it does happen and must be dealt with when it does.
That was my conclusion too. I’m not going to follow ANY complex requests, I will raise my hands, lie down and not move. They can either handcuff me or shoot a motionless and defenseless person.
What bothers me is that it seems officers have wide discretion on the orders they can give. You’d think there would be a standard procedure/orders in place that an officer is required to follow, to avoid this very situation. That this officer was allowed to give orders that put him (in his mind) in such a dangerous position, resulting in a dead innocent person, is not an acceptable practice or procedure. The police don’t get to decide for themselves what is and isn’t acceptable.
I usually side with LEO’s but this was disturbing, it could have happened to anyone.
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