Posted on 10/04/2017 5:15:09 AM PDT by Spiridon
When you can’t win at the ballot box, send in the Army.
Well, we in the US broke from our lawful King, and Patriots were a plurality under 50%, with near as many people neutral. I compare only for the sake of the popular will versus law issue.
My 2 cents, at some point if a majority of Catalans don’t want to stay in Spain I would be loathe to deny them whether the central government wills it or no, obviously they would never willingly sanction it. It appears to me despite your pronouncements that the majority right now is for leaving, and again I think the no side should have damn well voted it down if they were able and must conclude they boycotted because they knew they were not able. A successful no vote would have put the brakes to this. I would certainly vote in any election I was permitted to, no matter if the federal government said it was illegal, and if some dude with a nightstick tried to stop me that would really cheese me off.
I understand how very painful this must be for Spanish patriots and how as a British patriot you empathize with them.
If it were me, I’d be glad to see to the least conservative voting region leave (I support calexit). The loss of tax revenue is a good excuse for some much needed “austerity” as they call it in Europe. And Catalonia could reap what it sows with a new leftist Republic facing difficult EU negotiations.
Democracy, what can you say, frankly I wish Franco was still alive. ;/
I hope it’s all resolved peacefully. Maybe some increased devolution is possible, give them control of all their money, that’s the main thing they want. Funny how a largley leftist reason doesn’t want to spread the wealth, eh?
RE Post #11:
OMG... I need one of those... hats....
I don’t know if they’d go with your epaulettes.
I need 2 of those......globules...in my.......hands...lets say hands, there may be ladies present.
Any man worth his salt MUST ... HAVE.... E-Paul-ETTES, brother...
With fringey things... BIG, fringey thingeys... And a big hat.... Gots ta have a big hat to go with it...
Impy, regarding your point about the US breaking away: such are the accidents of history in which governments fall and nations born. A little better—and luckier—generalship and we’d have quickly suppressed the rebellion and that would have been that; Providence decreed otherwise, despite the lack of plebiscite.
Closer to home, support for Irish independence was not as popular as nationalist quarters pretend: while separatists won 80 of Ireland’s 105 seats in the 1918 GE, this was courtesy of only 36.27% of the electorate. 66 seats had no Unionist candidates—five-eighths of Ireland’s seats were decided by a process that would embarrass a banana republic.
Nevertheless, there does seem to have been rising Irish support for Home Rule—illustrative is the trajectory of Robert Erskine Childers who went from empire-loyalist to 32 counties/physical force republican.
In Scotland, separatist feeling undoubtedly increased in the period leading up to 2014’s referendum and afterwards: the SNP’s 2010 GE results were average (12.73% of electorate) but nearly trebled a mere 5 years later to 35.52% (down to 24.51% as of 2017).
Dr. Ian F.W. Beckett noted the importance of long-term public commitments in COIN conflicts in ‘Insurgency in Iraq: An Historical Perspective’ (U.S. Army War College Strategic Studies Institute, 2005), describing how premature announcements of withdrawal undermines the governmental authorities. No entity can expect loyalty if not intending to remain to reciprocate that loyalty. In addition to utilitarian motives for the transferring of loyalty, emotion is likely also a factor with feelings of betrayal arousing antipathy (you acknowledged ‘how very painful’ separation must be to a patriot).
There is a real risk that opening the door to independence in and of itself promotes independence—Gladstone’s embrace of Home Rule for Ireland likely encouraged Irish nationalism, and SNP support can be seen to rise in parallel with Westminster opening the door to independence, then fall as the door swings shut.
Putting independence on the table is like declaring to one’s Significant Other, ‘Feel free to leave any time you like, I’ll not stand in your way’. While superficially ‘nice’ and ‘civilised’, many on the receiving end will perceive it as indifference—evidence that the relationship is over. Many don’t want to hear either their SO or their Motherland’s government announcing: ‘You’re free to leave—stay or go, it’s up to you.’ What they want to hear is (as Toronto Prof. Jordan Peterson says describing the commitment of marriage): ‘We’re not running away—no matter what happens.’
To me, those chicas represent a true slice of Heaven.
When I’m thinking “Where do I start?”...yeah...:)
Calexit is unconstitutional, will not happen, and is not supported by the vast majority of Californians. In fact support for leaving the Union is not much greater here than within any other state for their own secession. Since Illinois foisted Obama on the nation, I say you go first.
Unilateral secession, yes. But Congress could allow them to leave. I'd support it, bye bye commie Senators and huge chunk of electoral votes.
will not happen
Not any time soon, no. If things keep getting worse it may become a real option some years from now. I'd love to see the sane counties break away to form a new state. I see no hope for the state, too many lib swine and illegals. May come the time the decent areas of the state need to get violent and make Sacramento let them leave.
Since Illinois foisted Obama on the nation, I say you go first.
Don't get snippy. You live there, I get it, you don't want your home to leave the union, I feel you, it sucks. I'd support kicking Cook County IL out of the US, I'd gladly move if that happened. I'd kick out all the liberal areas if I could, better off without them, let them rot on their own and not take the whole country down, to hell with unity. Bammy was a carpetbagger BTW, but we did hatch Hillary. And Reagan too. Without the boil of Cook County Romney and Trump would have carried it. Sad.
Congress will never let any state leave.
It’s not going to happen now or anytime in the future.
Counties can’t break away from a state without the approval of Congress, and that’s not happening either.
I’m not snippy, I’m serious. Since California sends well over twice the tax revenue to DC as Illinois, and there are no Pacific Navy or Marine bases there, it would be better for the country.
And why wouldn’t a GOP Congress admit a new GOP state from the good parts of Cali? The trick is the filthy state legislature would have to approve.
When they start leeching even more of your paychecks to pay for state run single payer and free college it may piss off conservative people in the interior enough to INSIST they be allowed to separate. I hope so. It’s an idea that’s time has come, liberal swine shouldn’t be able to lord over decent people.
And if things continue along the current path towards “Escape from LA” levels don’t rule anything out. You don’t know what 20 more years of psychotic Stalinist policies will do to California. Donald Trump is the President of the United States, the realm of possibility can expand even more given the right conditions.
As for military bases, we have plenty of them in foreign countries. A Soviet Republic of Cali would no more be able to evict us from our bases than Cuba has been able to evict us from gitmo.
Congress won’t approve it because it would be against the will of the people of California, and the will of the legislature of California, and no one in Congress wants it. Oh, it’s a dumb idea too. Other that that, there’s no reason.
The conservative interior counties breaking away and giving us 2 Senate seats and some electoral votes is a brilliant idea.
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