Posted on 10/04/2017 5:15:09 AM PDT by Spiridon
*ping to link in post #11*
;-D
“Maybe these countries for starters?”
Nah, we just need to return to 50 States providing most of the government as our founding fathers envisioned. Where the government that is closest to the people affects them the most, and the federal government takes care of stuff that is actually IN the Constitution!
Abstaining and spoiling ballots is stupid, those opposed should have voted no.
The DD regiment, every military should have one.
I’ve only handled an A-team. :-P
The abstainers were sensible as those voting against separation have arguably given a degree of legitimacy to the illegal referendum. Those spoiling or returning blank ballots might have been emphasising their opposition to separation, their adherence to Spanish law, or both, but again have inadvertently given it a degree of unmerited legitimacy.
Legality aside, I don’t agree, if a majority really doesn’t support leaving Spain they should have voted and defeated the referendum and then the supporters wouldn’t be able to point to it.
To by knowledge a side only abstains when it knows it’s gonna lose.
I was in Barcelona a few months ago, and the Catalonia flags were flying EVERYWHERE, from apartments, stores, you name it.
I knew then at least 80% wanted independence.
Only 37.83% of Catalans are recording as favouring independence in an illegal and highly dubious (ballots could be printed online and used at any polling station) referendum.
¡Cataluña es España y siempre lo sera!
I love me Latinas!!!
This isn’t about money.
On another thread someone called that going "full Lincoln". LOL.
And it shouldn't be, except that this is the first time in my 60 year life that Spain has had a real economic running of the bulls. With a real economy, good things including freedom could come to Catalonia at a time when it would mean a new partnership with Spain and everyone in the region, instead of what seems to be coming.
to be more accurate that needs to be adjusted for population size...
I’m not seriously advocating the dissolution of the US, and I would appreciate it if Americans would return the favour. Or lead by example by starting with their own country, whichever is preferred.
Exactly, JD. We all need to return to our old values—we need to remember what once made us great. And we need to cultivate patriotism: we need American patriotism and British patriotism and French patriotism, Spanish patriotism, etc. We need to be united not balkanised—closely united with our fellow countrymen; and loosely associated with those who share our values across the West. We need to be united in the face of the multiple threats to Western Civilisation, and not weakening and promoting division amongst our allies.
‘No more brother wars.’
Barcelona (/bɑːrsəˈloʊnə/, Catalan: [bəɾsəˈlonə]) is the capital and largest city of Catalonia, an autonomous community in Spain, and the country's second most populous municipality, with a population of 1.6 million within city limits.[2] Its urban area extends beyond the administrative city limits with a population of around 4.7 million people,[5] being the sixth most populous urban area in the European Union after Paris, London, Madrid, the Ruhr area and Milan.[3] It is the largest metropolis on the Mediterranean Sea, located on the coast between the mouths of the rivers Llobregat and Besòs, and bounded to the west by the Serra de Collserola mountain range, the tallest peak of which is 512 metres (1,680 feet) high.
There is no evidence for that “fake “ post
I mean county wise, just looking at it it looks like the US is all RED.. .when in reality its not.
of course not... but sadly, the way the left and right are behaving, I dont see much common ground left... the left keeps going further and further left...
There is a historical argument for considering Catalonia to be part of an indissoluble Spain (under the concept of “Spain” created through the marriage of Fernando and Isabel in the 15th century), but, at some point, the consent of the governed has to be considered. While I agree that the results of last weekend’s referendum are not completely trustworthy, whose fault was that? If it is clear that most residents of Catalonia do not support independence—which I have no doubt was the case *prior to the Spanish government’s heavy handed response to the referendum*—then Rajoy should have permitted the vote and made sure that the rights of all Spaniards in the autonomous region were respected (i.e., that Asturians, Andalusians, etc. who live in Catalonia are permited to vote, and that it is a free and fair election). Canada permitted Quebec to vote on independence, and the UK did the same with Scotland, and it defused the situation in those countries. But if someone doesn’t want to continue to live with you, what right do you have to force him or her to stay?
I know that permitting a vote in Catalonia will lead the Basques to demand one as well, that Catalonia and the País Vasco are indispensable to the Spanish economy (in fact, they subsidize a good deal of the rest of the country), that if Catalonia gains independence then other Catalan-speaking parts of Spain (the Balearic Islands, Valencia and Aragon’s La Franja) may want to join a Païs Catalan, that France would be pissed off to no end if Catalonia or (especially) the País Vasco becomes indepebdent due to irridentist claims such countries may have north of the Pyrenees, etc., but if it takes military force to keep a country together, then it isn’t much of a country to begin with. As recently as last week, I opposed Catalonian independence because it was preferred by a minority of the region’s population (and I oppose Basque independence because it is both a minoritarian and violent movement), but if a majority of Catalans want independence, then they have the same right to achieve it as the people of the Netherlands and of Portugal had the right to break away from Spain centuries ago.
As for the slogan insisting that Catalonia will be part of Spain forever, it reminds me of “Las Malvinas Son Argentinas.” If the residents of the Falkland Islands wished to be part of Argentina, the UK would have handed the islands over years ago; similarly, if Catalonians want to remain part of Spain, they will, but if not, I wouldn’t bet on an eternal union.
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