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The bill for treating a gunshot wound: $21,000 for the first 35 minutes
The Chicago Tribune ^ | 7-21-17 | Jennifer Smith Richards, Annie Sweeney and Jason Meisner

Posted on 07/24/2017 6:05:17 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic

The charges started racking up the moment Annette Johnson arrived at Mount Sinai Hospital with a gunshot wound to her left forearm.

Doctors sliced open Johnson's arm and installed a $500 metal plate to shore up her shattered ulna, securing it with numerous bone screws that cost $246 apiece. There were morphine drips to quell pain, tetanus shots to prevent infection, blood screens and anesthesia.

Two years earlier in a different part of the city, Leo Leyva arrived at a North Side hospital with a gunshot wound to his back. His last memory before going under anesthesia was a nurse telling him they were going to take good care of him and to count up to 10.

As the 18-year-old drifted off, the emergency room team at Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center went to work to save his life, starting IV lines and X-raying his chest and abdomen before performing an emergency surgery to remove the bullet and repair the damage.

For both Johnson and Leyva, just two of the thousands of gunshot victims in Chicago every year, the first hours and days of their hospital treatment were only the start of what would be costly recoveries that continue to this day.

Still, the bills for their initial treatment were staggering. In his first 35 minutes at the hospital, Leyva had racked up $21,521 in charges, and by the time he was released three weeks later the bill totaled more than $157,000. For Johnson, who spent barely 24 hours at Mount Sinai, the hospital charges approached $27,000.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: health; medicaid; medicare
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To: Sequoyah101

No, they have to inflate these prices because the government and insurance companies (not that these gunshot victims have insurance) will pay them an extremely small percentage of what they bill. This has nothing to do with the free market. The US hasn’t had a free market in health insurance or care since at least 1965. That is why costs have skyrocketed and free-loaders can force the rest of us to pay their bills.

These are inner city blacks shooting each other up and mostly suburban taxpayers footing the bill. Can we call it reparations?


61 posted on 07/24/2017 12:08:00 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX (For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind. ~ Hosea 8:7)
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To: Lurker

Except nobody pays, now. I guess it looks good in the accounts receivable column of the hospital’s ledger.


62 posted on 07/24/2017 12:09:00 PM PDT by gundog (Hail to the Chief, bitches.)
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To: Moltke

A very hefty profit for everyone on the receiving end and then blame the system and anything else you can think of to justify it.


63 posted on 07/24/2017 12:25:10 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (It feels like we have exchanged our dreams for survival. We just have a few days that don't suck.)
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To: Pining_4_TX

That sounds like just another excuse.


64 posted on 07/24/2017 12:26:59 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (It feels like we have exchanged our dreams for survival. We just have a few days that don't suck.)
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To: dragnet2
So what was the bill for the rest of the hospital stay? 350K A million?

Read the article. That's why we provide links.

65 posted on 07/24/2017 12:35:39 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Sequoyah101

And that’s the point.

In a free market the hospital couldn’t charge these prices because no one would be able to pay them.

A free market would drive the price down to the point the consumer could afford and the provider could make a profit.


66 posted on 07/24/2017 12:39:42 PM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
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To: ilovesarah2012
There are apparently no definite prices for treatment.

And so what? The price is whatever the market will bear. Don't like today's price? Try again tomorrow. Drop by in your tattered jeans. Join a cost-sharing group or start one of your own and negotiate a rate. Or, make me an offer.

Capitalism ROCKS.

67 posted on 07/24/2017 12:41:53 PM PDT by newgeezer (It is [the people's] right and duty to be at all times armed. --Thomas Jefferson, 1824)
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To: Skooz

In realty we cant afford them now.

Insurance, like student loans, contributes to driving cost up. We have a monopoly. Nothing like free market but it is more complicated than that. Some medicine you must have or die. What is that worth and who decides? Is it right to demand ursurous rates just because the care is required and you have been trained to provide it in mostly public financed schools? Should profit be made on misfortune? There was a time when medical facilities were mostly not for profit.

Before someone screams socialist, bull spit. We already have many things provided by the state in the public interest. Privatization of infrastructure for instance is just crony capitalization.

No I am not suggesting the boogieman single payer but self government without self discipline will not work. Medicine needs to be reigned in from its greedy ways and we cant do it by free market capitalism because we cant do without some of it at all.


68 posted on 07/24/2017 1:16:34 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (It feels like we have exchanged our dreams for survival. We just have a few days that don't suck.)
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To: newgeezer

I am not going in to have a procedure and find out what it costs after it’s done.

Would you buy a car without knowing how much it cost?


69 posted on 07/24/2017 3:15:00 PM PDT by ilovesarah2012
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To: wiggen

Who inferred it was simple?

Broke the ball of the left femur completely off and commuted the trochanteric ridge.

Five days to stabilize then seven days after surgery before I was discharged.

A follow-up surgery 1 1/2 years later to remove the hardware, lest the leg break again due to the artificial structure.

Was at a Trauma conference where a Doctor discussed my type of break — it was a 1 to 8 scale where 1 was easy to heal from and 8 was fatal.

I had a 7 break, which was 90% fatal. I was in great shape.

As I stated, it’s a $200,000 break today.


70 posted on 07/24/2017 3:19:06 PM PDT by BBB333 (The Power Of Trump Compels You!)
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To: Skooz
In a free market the hospital couldn’t charge these prices because no one would be able to pay them

The insurance companys don't pay those costs at face value either. Your insurance should send you an explaination of benefits when they pay and it should show you the charged amount, the 'allowable' which the insurance covers and the actual amount paid. The cash customers are the ones that get hit massively in the wallet.
71 posted on 07/24/2017 3:21:42 PM PDT by redcatcherb412
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To: Leaning Right

> This is just the tip of the iceberg for the ongoing rehab expenses <

And lets not forget spending the rest of his life drawing Social Security disability.

Seems like the cops could save Chicago a lot of money, and improve the solvency of their own pension funds, by letting shot gang-bangers bleed out.


72 posted on 07/24/2017 3:21:46 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Big government is attractive to those who think that THEY will be in control of it.)
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To: 21twelve

A health care co-op might also get a negotiated rate. It sounds like your insurance company is exiting the individual market in your area.


73 posted on 07/24/2017 4:49:50 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham

Yes - they are. I got a letter from a local financial group that as a sole-proprietor I’m pretty much screwed. I’m not sure that I want to go through all of the hassle to become “incorporated” in order to get group rates.


74 posted on 07/24/2017 5:28:56 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts FDR's New Deal = obama)
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To: 21twelve

Getting incorporated is fairly simple and relatively cheap in most states. It can often be done online.


75 posted on 07/24/2017 6:51:34 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham

Thanks! I’m going to look into it. I’m thinking more of the paperwork and filing for taxes AFTER getting incorporated. Although I guess there are other benefits as well.


76 posted on 07/24/2017 6:54:38 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts FDR's New Deal = obama)
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To: 21twelve

The IRS paperwork and accounting for a small corporation with a single owner are relatively simple.


77 posted on 07/24/2017 7:06:47 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: chris37
They charge that much money because of insurance. Total racket.

It's a racket alright but probably not in the way you meant it.

Most of the patients with gun shot wounds have no insurance.

You and I have insurance, so when *we* go to the hospital we are charged double and triple to cover the costs of the illegals, the poor, the people who give false information, and the rest of the non-insured. Look around you in the ER. Those people are paying nothing. You're paying for them!

78 posted on 07/24/2017 7:14:10 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
I practiced General and Trauma surgery for 30 years. When I started we charged "Usual, Reasonable, and Customary" charges. We could charge a certain fee, but if it did not comport with those charges that is all we could collect. With Medicaid and Medicare....they set the price. It was nonnegotiable. In the 1980s HCFA lowered the patents based upon DRGs...Diagnosis Related Groups....(non negotiable). They did change the payment schedules in the '90's....they lowered remuneration. Medicaid fees were also lowered in terms of actual dollars....(not adjusted to inflation). As a response to Drs. accepting a certain for, say a cholecystectomy, the dollar cost averaging was swept aside and they (insurance companies) set our fees. OSHA compliance cost more. Drugs cost more, law suits cost more in insurance fees. Now comes OBAMA care. In many cases it cost more in running an office than was generated by an average practice. Therefore, people are not participating as providers. This is what obama wanted......it will lead to a single payer system. This will be horrible for patients. It will be horrible for providers. The Republicans need to realize this and stop screwing with socialized medicine. They will probably fail at this, which will lead to the single payor.

Back in the '90s when things were better physicians, in order to keep staff privileges at a hospital had to 'cover' the emergency room in their specialty. No one liked it, but we did it. From the ER I had a 20% collection rate. In other words I worked one day for myself and 4 days for no pay. We do not ask teachers, or engineers, or accountants or any other groups to do this. I still had to pay office staff for all 5 working days. Then when I had to cover I had to work the weekends. We did not mind this so much....we made a living. That concept is rapidly fading.

79 posted on 07/24/2017 7:23:11 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (proawakileftist)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
I practiced General and Trauma surgery for 30 years. When I started we charged "Usual, Reasonable, and Customary" charges. We could charge a certain fee, but if it did not comport with those charges that is all we could collect. With Medicaid and Medicare....they set the price. It was nonnegotiable. In the 1980s HCFA lowered the patents based upon DRGs...Diagnosis Related Groups....(non negotiable). They did change the payment schedules in the '90's....they lowered remuneration. Medicaid fees were also lowered in terms of actual dollars....(not adjusted to inflation). As a response to Drs. accepting a certain for, say a cholecystectomy, the dollar cost averaging was swept aside and they (insurance companies) set our fees. OSHA compliance cost more. Drugs cost more, law suits cost more in insurance fees. Now comes OBAMA care. In many cases it cost more in running an office than was generated by an average practice. Therefore, people are not participating as providers. This is what obama wanted......it will lead to a single payer system. This will be horrible for patients. It will be horrible for providers. The Republicans need to realize this and stop screwing with socialized medicine. They will probably fail at this, which will lead to the single payor.

Back in the '90s when things were better physicians, in order to keep staff privileges at a hospital had to 'cover' the emergency room in their specialty. No one liked it, but we did it. From the ER I had a 20% collection rate. In other words I worked one day for myself and 4 days for no pay. We do not ask teachers, or engineers, or accountants or any other groups to do this. I still had to pay office staff for all 5 working days. Then when I had to cover I had to work the weekends. We did not mind this so much....we made a living. That concept is rapidly fading.

80 posted on 07/24/2017 7:23:12 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (proawakileftist)
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