Posted on 06/17/2017 12:47:34 AM PDT by blueplum
I hope there are some “reasonable prosecutors” around but I’m afraid that the feeding frenzy of anti Trump in both parties will override “reason”.
It was only yesterday or perhaps the day before that Trump began the counter attack by tweeting about Hillary sins.
He has been pretty much on defense and when he actually switches to full offense, all hell is going to break lose.
We don’t know what we don’t know because it is secret.
Some of those requests from Trump go to debunking the January ODNI memo, that CIA, NSA and FBI fueled. All of those are, as you suggest, Trump requesting that those agencies go public with something on the order of "the accusations are baseless."
At any rate, I replied just to make the point, one you already know, so i am not correcting you, that there is more to the accusation that Trump obstructed justice, than "he asked the piss dossier to be debunked."
None of the grounds for accusing Trump of obstructing justice holds water, but debunking the accusations should be methodical, not wholesale.
That’s right friend and 25% of the base being disenchanted is a disaster.
I'm more willing to believe your suggestion that there may be a second special counsel (other than Mueller) appointed to investigate obstruction, than I am to believe that it would be under Sessions. Based on Session's recent testimony, he is completely isolated from any issues related to possible campaign ties to Russia, and Micheal Flynn is at the very heart of that investigation, due his dinner with Putin, appearances on RT, etc. And the obstruction charge is with regard to any investigation of Flynn.
You are hopeless. If you served under me I would have you court martial-ed and dishonorably discharged.
He is not directly conflicted, by regulation, with Trump perpetrating a crime after Trump has been sworn in.
Yes, he is conflicted as part of the administration, that is why he (Sessions) would be pressured to appoint a SC to investigate the accusation that Trump obstructed justice.
Lol you would court martial someone for calling out the cowardly traitorous republicans in Congress? What kind of outfit are you running?
There needs to fairly convincing evidence of a crime before ANY special counsels are appointed, which is one of the core issues with the one that’s already in place.
The only person foolish enough to appoint a second one, would be the fool who appointed the first - Rosenstein.
They are being talked to rather harshly.
I do not take your post as an admonishment - no worries. As for the statement above, I couldn't agree more!
Thanks FRiend.
I'm with you on that. But once an issue has been spun up by a duplicitous press, insider coup Comey and total cooperation from Congress, it has to be addressed is some formal/official capacity. "Waving it off on a technicality" won't pacify the beast.
-- The only person foolish enough to appoint a second one, would be the fool who appointed the first - Rosenstein. --
As I have expressed more than a few times, I think the SC is roughly a creation of Team Trump. Nothing foolish about it at all. It was known and planned before Comey was fired. Maybe months before, maybe before Trump was sworn in. Sessions is no dummy. Things started happening pretty fast after Rosenstein was appointed. 10 days, Comey fired, bam. Anticipated firestorm follows. Going according to plan.
Trump has his opponents spinning like tops, playing them like a fiddle.
Consider this. What if:
1. Sessions and Trump (and Rosenstein and Mueller) have completely infused the justice department with a serious-as-a-heart-attack “no leaks” policy, with the threat of certain and immediate prison time. It hangs over everyone there. Everyone affected know they will set an example when it finally happens. That includes the entire Congress, and their aids, secretaries, janitors, etc., every last one of them. Even good guy reporters. The fear of God has been put into everyone, therefore, they are not leaking about it, and will not.
2. Comey and his sycophants are (still) planting “anonymous” stories, from outside the justice department, and the msm still eats it up. Podesta, Sid Vicious, Lynch, Comey, Brennan, any and all. Backed by their entire army of flying monkeys. MSM calls some of them “officials” but they no longer are. But they are all coming from outside the Department of Justice!
3. The email stating Lynch made assurances she would shut down the Hillary investigation is real, and Sessions has it. There is another one planted as a diversion that is BS, that has been debunked, but even Comey said recently the real one exists. The fake one is a diversion to prevent keep people away from looking behind that curtain.
4. Comey is under investigation for both leaking and obstruction of justice. He may have been given partial immunity already in exchange for spilling the beans on Lynch. Hence his incriminating-but-not-incriminating remarks recently about Lynch—queasy feeling...not leaking, but showing he has flipped sides—publicly. He will take the 5th if questioned (again) by Congress.
5. Rosenstein, Mueller, Sessions, are conducting a tightly held top secret investigation. Perhaps assembling a topgun team of handpicked leak-proof patriots. Many may be democrats. So when charges come, nobody can point to a stacked deck.
What would all that look like to us mere mortals outside the loop? What would it look like if such an investigation was already underway?
EXACTLY what it looks like right now. Complete Silence. No leaks about it. Trump out of the loop.
If it were already underway, the only hope of the criminal cabal being investigated (and all that it implies and leads to) is that it somehow gets shut down. Primary: Get rid of Meuller, Rosenstein, and Sessions, in that order.
Secondary: NO LEAKS about it! That's right, the evil doers would be even more afraid of leaks than the good guys. If word got out, we would be cheering, and Mueller, Rosenstein and Sessions would become fire proof.
Third: Keep sowing more fake news to stoke doubts about Mueller, Rosenstein, and Sessions, so calls come out from the Republicans to fire them all. Blow massive amounts of smoke day and night to inflame and confuse in a fake grass roots effort to get everyone to say with the same voice, “Shut it down!”
It would all look to us EXACTLY like what is happening right now.
IMHO.
If you go back two months on FR you will find that there were statements “from White House sources” that Bannon was on his way out. The only person that I know of who has left the Trump circle is the woman who leaked material to the WaPo.
It was already under investigation by the FBI, which could have simply continued forward. Deputy Director McAabe testified to Congress the firing would have no bearing on the ability of the FBI to properly function going forward.
I think the SC is roughly a creation of Team Trump. Nothing foolish about it at all. It was known and planned before Comey was fired.
Do you have a source claiming it was known and planned before Comey was fired? The media narrative is that is was spurned by Comey's memo of course, which I'm not convinced of, but I do attribute it more to Rosenstein's weakness to do his job than anything else.
McCabe is correct on that point, but he's part of Team Comey (as are Rybicki and Baker). At the time (April/May), the calls for an SC to look into collusion were spinning up in the press. The prospect of multiple Congressional investigations was real. Leaving it in the FBI doesn't "leave it in the FBI." And beside the circus act going on in three rings, McCabe could have kept the circus alive by continuing the pattern that Comey started - sit on the investigations as long as possible.
-- Do you have a source claiming it was known and planned before Comey was fired? --
No. I get to that conclusion by gaming in advance how the press would react to a Comey firing precipitated by a "fire Comey" memo from Rosenstein. Trump, Sessions and Rosenstein had a meeting days before Comey was fired. All three knew the gist of the Rosenstein memo at that time. The face of the Rosenstein memo puts Rosenstein on Team Trump (whether he is or not is a separate discussion).
Sessions is recused at this point, and Rosenstein will be viewed as "beholden to Trump" is known before the Rosenstein memo is reduced to writing, and before Comey is fired.
IIRC, Rosenstein was challenged in his confirmation hearings, on this sort of hypothetical.
"[Rosenstein] had developed a reputation for integrity," Schumer said. "He has promised to give this issue careful consideration. I believe if he studies the department regulations, he will come to the same conclusion many of us have: that a special counsel is merited."
Senate confirms Rosenstein as deputy attorney general - POLITICO - 04/25/2017
I should have went on to say that McCabe and the FBI investigation would have then been limited to the control of Rosenstein at the DoJ, to press any actual charges etc. While that's still a roll of the dice, it couldn't have appeared any worse than what Mueller has done by bringing in actual lawyers from the Clinton Foundation to his team, with the apparent ability to expand his investigations in any direction he desires.
Trump, Sessions and Rosenstein had a meeting days before Comey was fired. All three knew the gist of the Rosenstein memo at that time.
I'm not sure that's correct based on some reports I've seen. It also would call into question that there was already a plan to put the special counsel in place, which I don't think Trump or Sessions would have agreed to in any way. If there was a plot to put the special counsel in place, I believe it would done nefariously by Mueller et al, not in the interest of Trump.
I'd like to believe your optimistic analysis, but so far I'm seeing too much evidence that Mueller and Comey have been scheming this all along.
We already covered this ground, and you and I disagree.
-- I'm not sure that's correct [Trump, Sessions and Rosenstein had a meeting days before Comey was fired. All three knew the gist of the Rosenstein memo at that time] based on some reports I've seen. --
The fact of the meeting days before Comey was fired is fairly widely reported, and my contention is supported by Sessions' testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee on June 13th.
SESSIONS: Senator Feinstein, I would say I believe it has been made public that the president asked us our opinion and it was given and he asked us to put that in writing.
He repeated that in various forms during the hearing.
-- It also would call into question that there was already a plan to put the special counsel in place, which I don't think Trump or Sessions would have agreed to in any way. If there was a plot to put the special counsel in place, I believe it would done nefariously by Mueller et al, not in the interest of Trump. --
We disagree on that too, but I have already explained my reasoning.
-- ... so far I'm seeing too much evidence that Mueller and Comey have been scheming this all along. --
The press narrative and Comey's allegations facilitate going in that direction, to be sure.
I’m not following the press on this, I’m following two of the most respected conservative legal voices out there, Mark Levin and Larry Klayman. Here’s two multimedia links to their latest analysis of Comey and Mueller:
http://www.marklevinshow.com/2017/06/16/june-16-2017/
http://www.freedomwatchusa.org/klayman-discusses-special-counsel-muellers-conflict-of-inte
I'll admit not listening to the multimedia sources you cite, but my guess is that they assume the conclusion that you and I debated, and work forward from there.
I'm questioning the premise that Mueller has, for any reason, an obstruction investigation on his plate. I'm also questioning the conclusion that Rosenstein is a skunk, and that Trump is angry or surprised at the appointment of an SC.
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