Posted on 12/22/2016 4:07:34 PM PST by libstripper
The F-35 & F-22 are primarily intended as BVR fighters. But the F-22 retains the agility to yank & bank like a legacy fighter. What it gives up is any meaningful air-2-mud capability.
That is where the F-35 supposedly comes in. It trades agility for a wider weapons array. But, man, that BVR capability had better work!
A couple trillion here a couple trillion there and you’re talking about real money.
The F35. “A camel is a horse designed by committee.”
Cancelling the F-35 is a negotiating position. The first F-35 Squadron is going to be activated early 2017. Now that the software problems are all worked out and the F-35 can fly and compete against other aircraft with it’s full combat capabilities it is proving to be the most formidable aircraft in the world. Since the latest block software was certified the F-35 has won every engagement up to 6 vs 1. The F-35 provides its pilots with capabilities no other aircraft possesses and will give our pilots a huge advantage over every other aircraft and SAM system. At this point with it’s full capabilities available the F-35 is nearly unbeatable, at least according to the pilots that it and those that have flown against it. Considering the first squadron will be activated early next year, and the Navy has already made the modifications to many ships from which the F-35 will operate - (Large Deck Amphibs LHD, LHA etc...etc...). Also, the Air Force and the Navy have already set up supply systems and the other infrastructure to support the F-35. We are past the point of no return with the F-35, the biggest mistake at this point would be to cancel the F-35 thus throwing out the baby with the bath water. The best course of action would be to slap down tough oversight on Lockheed, something the Pentagon has gotten very lax at in the last two decades. Yes, Lockheed sucks and I hate them too, I worked on the LCS program with them and they are terrible vis-à-vis cheating in ways that allow them to do cost overruns, but the fact is they have built the most advanced and stealthy aircraft of all time, it is a game changer. And it is a fact that much of the F-35’s unique capabilities are due to the fact that brand new technology was developed - (a very expensive proposition creating new tech) - and that is a huge part of the cost. There are plenty of video’s of F-35 pilots explaining the capabilities with the finished software and the amazing new helmet they have.
The most viable part of the F-35 program is the version for the Marines. The Harrier needs to be replaced!
Much of the total program cost of the F-35 is money already gone out the door for research and development and for production tooling and stockpiles. Cancelling the F-35 now would abandon most of the value of those prior expenditures -- and do so just as the going forward per aircraft cost is going down through better management and production efficiencies. More can be saved by multiyear contracting and some tough, Trump led bargaining with the prime contractor and subs.
Is continuing the F-35 worth the cost? It should be kept in mind that it comprises not one but three cutting edge fifth generation fighter/strike models with different costs and capabilities designed for three different sets of missions.
The conventional take off and landing F-35A model is now reaching the Israelis, who have eagerly awaited its extraordinary stealth, integrated sensor suite, and battle management capabilities. Analysts regard Israel's F-35A's as providing a new and nearly unstoppable strike capability against regional adversaries, including Iran. Given Trump's strong pro-Israel views, Israeli enthusiasm for the F-35 will make for a potent argument against cancellation.
The most troubled and expensive model, the F-35B, is a short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) variant intended to replace the Harrier formerly relied on by the Marines. The F-35C is thus meant to operate from austere forward bases and air-capable ships near combat zones. The Marines regard the F-35B as essential to their mission. With a retired Marine general as Secretary of Defense, the F-35B program seems likely to continue.
That leaves the F-35C, the Navy's carrier version. Even if that model of the F-35 goes forward -- which is what I expect -- the Navy will still be short of fighter and strike aircraft because its current aircraft fleet is aging out of service. My guess is that by threat, bluster, and bargaining Trump will end up getting the Navy some needed enhanced capability FA-18s on the cheap to fill in that gap, along with some cost paring from the F-35 bill.
While supporters and critics will debate the cost accounting, Trump will have assured that the Navy gets both its model of the F-35 and some new, improved version FA-18s. And Boeing will rack up new export sales from such an aircraft, which it will promote as a non-stealthy F-35 that will dominate most adversaries.
Restart the F-22 production line.
Upgrade an A-10 version to land on carriers.
Upgrade an A-10 version to land on carriers.
I thought that it was a ZEBRA is a horse designed by committee.
And order some more F22’s and A10 Warthogs!
Well, if the BVR doesn’t’ t work properly the Pentagon can always blame the Russians but our pilots are going to be SOL.
Yes, the Harrier needs to be replaced. Do you want to use a $250,000,000 plane in Close-Air-Support?
It would make more sense to take 300 A-10s and modify them for Carrier Ops. And yes, I know how far-fetched that is.
CAS needs low/slow/tough as nails/able to absorb lots of small arms fire. That ain’t the F-35.
“The services have always had specific needs for aircraft and the F-35 was supposed to meet ALL of them.”
- Air Superiority
- Light Bomber
- Close Air Support
You might get:
- Air Superiority
- Light Bomber
And you might get:
- Light Bomber
- Close Air Support
You won’t get all 3.
maybe retrofit the f35 avionics into the f22 and f18...
let the marines commission a new plane to replace their f35 variant.
Why VTO for Navy and Marines? Too much risk of lives.
While I tend to agree, the point is that one doesn't pay $20K for a pizza that folks like when good pizza is worth $20....... Trump is putting Boeing and Lockheed on notice that bidding low and then ending up paying many multiples of the agreed upon contract is not gonna fly any more.
The thing is that the Marines need a ire that can operate from the LHDs and such. The A-10 could never be modified for that. Not sure about making them carrier capable.
The lack of enthusiasm by F-35 pilots might be because of a general “lack of Confidence” in BVR. You are basically flying your mother’s Chevy station wagon up there against the neighborhood Ferrari’s and Porsche’s. As long as the mission is to haul groceries, we’re good. But if the ROE’s prohibit BVR then I hope the USAF has the guts to tell a future president, “Sorry, no can do Sir!”
Gone are the days when Kelly Johnson would actually give back unspent money on aircraft development., I guess.
I agree, the F-35 has over promised and under delivered. It is Outlandishly expensive with little commonality among variants. Some day it may be what we were told it will be, that is a long time from now.
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