Posted on 10/27/2016 6:01:45 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
Another huge mistake of many that the Army has made in recent years. From an infantryman and aviator perspective, nothing puts the fear of God into you and forces you to go to ground more than massed artillery fires.
The Russians and Chinese haven't abandoned that concept.
ATACMS was our big hammer when conducting the deep attack mission with apache battalions. One of those basically takes out a grid square.
Ok from your link:
“This class of weapon is thus widely referred to as a “quasi-ballistic missile”, though the US Army has also referred to the ATACMS as a “maneuvering missile”.”
Given it’s guided on the terminal path and does not actually reach sub-orbit I very much doubt it reaches the terminal speed of 5000 m/s that a ballistic missile reaches. Though it may be faster than a harpoon’s unclassified 240 m/s in some way - since it’s planned terminal speed isn’t listed, ballistic terminal speed is dependent upon altitude obtained, and reduced by any drag introduced through terminal maneuvering - it’s impossible to determine the true difference.
I still see little advantage to investing in a completely new system when the harpoon is already being upgraded to double it’s distance to 134 nm and the tomahawk provides as accurate a delivery at a range of 800-1500 nm dependent on the variant. The Tomahawk does take time to get on target that I’ll give you and therefore is not likely responsive enough to tactical field requirements.
The harpoon on the other hand is a proven tactical weapon that is already available in canister usage - including coastal batteries with a booster, has multiple delivery profiles including a pop-up, and therefore likely easier to convert - in fact it could very easily be programmed to provide a ballistic pattern if that is truly desired.
I guess I’m just having a hard time understanding what the true advantage is given it isn’t a true ballistic speed missile. Doesn’t mean it’s not a good system...long as package is delivered down range, on target, on time.
Back in the day, we worked MLRS sensor to shooter missions at Ft. Stewart with Apaches in the late 90s. Digital fire mission from the bird all the way to the launcher. Took some effort, but we made it happen.
I remember the briefings on that effort when I was at Ft Hood. Now, it’s just routine...or can be with current technology.
The ATACMs is not mixed with a 277 pod. The ammo pods cannot be mixed. It’s a weight thing. The LLM pictured contains 2 ATACMs. All pods use the same 6 rocket cover that the 277s use.
13M
I’m talking more about the branch. The move to BCTs removed artillerymen for consideration from a lot of positions. I know several senior LTCs and COLs who were told POINT BLANK that an Artillerman would never command one of their brigades. This is stripping the branch of it’s senior officers like nothing else.
I was a Lance and MLRS officer before I got out, and nothing like that was ever close to happening before.
Army intends to abide by the Intermediate Nuclear Forces treaty — despite Russia’s violations of it — and restrict LRPF’s range to under 500 kilometers (313 miles)
This is a stupid restriction. Lawyers will kill everyone!
Roger, the Army has somewhat repaired that by bringing back the DIVARTYs (Division Artillery for those of you from Rio Linda) which provides more Colonel level commands. At one point there were only three Fires Brigades and three BCDs (Battlefield Coordination Detachments) for FA Colonels to command. With the DIVARTYs coming back that helps.
In the past couple of years FA Majors were selected for Lt. Col. below both Armor and Infantry. I (despite being a SAMS graduate) was one of those victims. Fortunately, I was a prior service and retired with 23 yrs active duty (32 total)
However the operational implications are still there. DIVARTYs do not have a GS battalion of thier own. Not even the MLRS battery of the J Series MTOE. So no ability to fight deep.
A fellow Artilleryman and college buddy had two highly successful tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, but had to retire as a LTC. He’s still bitter about being subordinated to those other branches, but he’s retired and double-dipping as an instructor at CGSC in DC. He was prior service as well, so it worked out OK.
ATACMS is a 24” diameter rocket. The chunks of stuff you see is the environmental covering that the rocket blows through when launched. That is a real launch photo.
The ATACMS has been around since Desert Storm and its seen more combat than the Harpoon: 560 fired, according to this link by LM. So obviously, the army sees some merit in such a system, rather going the cruise missile route.
Harpoon late ‘70s for first variant...I guess we could quibble about # of combat firings....
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