Posted on 07/25/2016 10:28:30 AM PDT by rktman
I think that we have all been in the position where we see something at a gun show that stands out as really rare or interesting, but just don’t have enough information to act on it. Even the internet can fall flat sometimes, this was one of those cases. I don’t know if I would come off of $15,000 for a non NFA AR-15 with nothing more than a promised letter from Colt to verify the rifle’s legitimacy. I am sure that the seller is an upstanding guy and I understand that Colt is currently working on those letters, so verification is coming.
(Excerpt) Read more at thefirearmblog.com ...
15k non NFA Colt AR-15? I’d rather have ~x30 aftermarket ARs or 15 Colt LEO 6920’s to give out to the neighborhood for “defense in depth”.
Dad traded some law work for one after the ban. He got about 5k for it. 15k is high.
Be careful, I can’t tell the number of times I have seen the same model gun at different shows over the years having serial number 1.
A real P. T. Barnum wannabe “there is a sucker born every minute”.
Depends whether it’s non-NFA because it’s Class III, or a more mundane SBR.
Was it manufactured prior to 1975?........................
Wasn’t an AK-15 in the news lately... (/s)
You can buy an original G Series FN FAL or Sig AMT for those prices.
Gunshow legends.
Buy the gun, not the story. Colt will document any firearm they made, but you have to pay for the service. Last time I looked it was between 100 and 200 bucks for proper research and official letter from Colt.
No documentation presented in these examples.
Let me know when an AK16 shows up.
He’s missing the pre ban factory Z-coated camo model.
If you are buying it as an investment, 15k is too high.
Even if it is authentic.
If you are buying it to shoot, 15k is too high.
You can buy 20 to 25 shootable AR’s for that money.
Or even better - 15 AR’s and and a thousand rounds of ammo for each one.
Forgive my ignorance, can a non-NFA be class III? And an AR? Would it not be an M4 or M16?
I am missing something here.
While in Basic training, I was issued an AR-15 that had been modified to be an M-16. It was stamped AR-15, but our DI’s had explained to some of us that the barrel had been modified and sloped to match the specs of an M-16 and that basically they were now one and the same.
It had a SFR. It worked perfectly well in SA mode or FA mode.
In fact, the first time I live fired it downrange, I placed 5 of 6 rounds in a pattern that could be covered by a dime.
Now I’m confused too, thinking it over.
Someone here will know.
rather have the AA12
A non NFA would be a pre 1934 machine gun? Correct? And that would be grandfathered without any crap from the Treasury?
My family has a 1926 or so Model 12 Win. that has no safety feature for the pump. That is you can hold the trigger down on the first shot and keep racking it for consecutive firing. Would that be non NFA?
Not trying to hijack a thread, just curious.
All machine guns fall under the NFA. Only those made and registered before May 19, 1986 can be sold among civilians.
I explained that it was what Federal and State LAW required be filed with the auctioneer to be allowed to bid on the guns at this auction. The clerk said, "What are you talking about?"
I explained to the auctioneer that California State statute and Federal Law at the time REQUIRED that when a state entity sold firearms that they could only be sold to Federally licensed Firearms dealers. They could NOT be sold directly to the public. It was prohibited by law. I again offered a copy of the FFL for my business. The clerk said "You've got to be kidding!"
There were several hundred people browsing through the guns they had on the tables they had set up. . . and I realized they were just general consumers type bidders. "Nope, I'm not. Don't you know the law about what you are doing here? Only Federally licensed dealers can bid on these guns. Here is my license."
The clerk called over his boss, the auctioneer who also proceeded to question me.
I told him about the law as it stood at that point. This was mid 1975. . . and he should have been aware of the state of the law as it related to his business. He argued with me that since this was a public auction, he couldn't cancel it, it had been advertised! I said, "I know, but you cannot sell to the public, only to properly licensed gun dealers. Here's my license."
He sputtered a bit and said "I can't believe this"
I told him to "Call the ATF or your own attorney to check what I'm telling you."
"What's the ATF?" was his response.
"The Department of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms of the Treasury Department of the US Government. . . see, right here on my Federal Firearms Dealer's License." I said. "You can also call the State of California's Consumer Regulatory Commission, they'll tell you the same thing, but I doubt there's anyone there today."
They announced on the PA system that there was going to be a delay on the 9:00AM auction start. About a half-hour later the auctioneer came back on the PA announcing that this morning's auction was limited to Federally licensed firearms dealers and that dealers must file there FFLs with the auction clerk. There were only THREE of us there to bid on over 2600 long guns.
Unfortunately, most of the guns were literally junk. Lots of .22s and single shot shotguns and lots of rusted guns that would need a lot of work to make them look good enough to be salable. There were some gems in the batch.
Since there was no appreciable competition at the auction for these firearms, the typical auction for a gun went like this:
After trying to get his desired opening bid and not getting it, the frustrated auctioneer would ask for:
"Any bid at all?"
"One dollar!"
"I have $1, do I hear Fifty dollars?"
"Two dollars!"
"C'mon, gentlemen, this is worth more than that! Can I have Twenty-five?"
"Three dollars."
"I have $3. Do I hear Ten. Do I hear Five? Going once, Twice? Three times and sold!"
Sometimes it might go to five dollars and once a nice shotgun went to fifty, but the three dealers refused to compete and we essentially shared the good stuff. Mostly we took turns winning auctions.
The upshot of all this was I had spotted an M-1 Carbine with the fore end wrapped in black electrical tape in all those guns I was determined to get. The other dealers had essentially ignored it, not even picking it up. It was marked Singer Sewing Machine Company as the manufacturer!
I was pretty sure that Singer was NOT a contract maker of M1 Carbines, so I broke away from examining guns and found a phone booth and called my office billing clerk who collected M-1 Carbines to ask him what he knew about M-1 Carbines made by Singer. His response was first stunned silence and then excitement.
He said that what ever I did, get that gun! Singer NEVER had a contract but did produce ten guns as contract proofs when they applied for a contract which they did not get! That gun was the Holy Grail of M-1 Carbine collectors.
Most of the 1000 or so guns I bought at that California Fish and Games auction were Terrible Turkeys. We never did clean up the rust or repair them because it wasn't worth the effort. I had spent approximately $5,000 for all of the guns I bought at that auction. I had a barrel in the store where these Terrible Turkeys were sold for your choice $25. When the barrel would get close to empty, we'd grab an armful and refill the barrel.
Of course some of the guns were worth a lot more, and we got good prices for them. The best was that Singer M-1 Carbine. We sent out letters that we had it, with some professional photography showing the stamping of the maker's name and other details. We had cleaned up the gun, removing the adhesive from the electrical tape, which was on it not because the top wood was loose, but most likely to darken the gun for poaching. We offered it for "best offer" from these collectors of military rifles. By the time we finished, the impromptu auction between avid collectors resulted in thet rarest of M-1 Carbines brought in over $15,000.
I paid $3 for it.
The last time I heard of one of these Singer M-1 Carbines being sold it went for around $80,000. These days, under current law, it would be destroyed.
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